Transferring Out of Williams—Chance Me

I agree, and because Williams offers this education path, it will be more difficult for OP to make an academic case to her transfer schools. The reasoning is still valid if targeting transfer schools that have an education major, but not any that offer the same thing that Williams does.

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@sharpiesharpener

You know…if you are not happy at Williams, then leaving Williams isn’t a bad idea. But please make sure you have given this school a fair chance. Sometimes even the best chances don’t work out for a specific student…and that could be you.

Look carefully at where you choose to apply and perhaps transfer to. It’s the devil you know vs the devil you don’t know. Like I said said…make sure you have done your best to enjoy where you are.

If it doesn’t work out…then transfer.

And BTW…if you are transferring to an instate public university in your state, I don’t think you need to have a significant academic reason for doing so.

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I dug a little bit in at Williams’ K-12 site. This page provides a little bit more info.

The link to " * View the various ways past students have been involved with the Program in Teaching." is dead and the link to learn about certification ( Learn more about the teacher certification students may seek through an arrangement with nearby Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts (MCLA)) is not dead, but I can’t find the program they’re mentioning on it. In looking at the " list of courses students in the Program in Teaching often elect." it’s primarily stuff in the psych department, some of which hasn’t been offered since 2012 or 2015. Depending on where OP applies, she could definitely make a case that Williams’ education program is not really a program.

OP, this link does offer some resources about the local opportunities available, including one within a 5-minute walk of campus. It mentions work-study, too. Can you ask the financial aid office if you can get a position, even if they’re now doing all grants? https://program-in-teaching.williams.edu/teaching-opportunities/

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t education majors typically only appropriate for elementary teachers? It is my understanding that middle/high teachers major in their subject area then add on a teaching certificate.

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Interesting. Thanks for adding more context. It also supports the OP’s need to thoroughly research the programs offered at other schools as some seem similar to this.

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While you’re consider what your next steps should be, have you seen/used some of the resources that Williams offers for its first gen students?

There’s a list of faculty and staff who were first-gens themselves, the Firsts Student Union which has a number of current first gens who are on campus, the Firsts alumni network, Critical Need Funding (including options for supplemental funding and funding for career opportunities…perhaps to be used for working at a school), etc? I strongly suspect that no matter how competitive the overall student body is at Williams, that if you reach out to some of the people on the Firsts page that they will do their very best to help. And alumni perspectives may also be particularly helpful, as the alums will have seen other schools for grad programs or compared experiences with others who went to different schools, etc. Their perspective might help you see the reasons to stay or the reasons for you to move on. And all of them will have a sense of what life at Williams is like.

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I’m not sure what you mean by “add on a teaching certificate”. As a retired educator, I will say that middle/high school teachers do major in their subject areas but they also have to take several courses in general education theory, foundations, psychology, and history. Then they have to take “methods” courses which prepare them to prepare lessons and deliver instruction as well as student teaching together with an accompanying course. It doesn’t involve as many courses as an elementary teacher nor would it involve majoring in education, but there is a substantial amount of coursework even for a secondary teacher.

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It depends on the state. In many states (I’d venture a guess to say the majority), there are Bachelors degrees in secondary ed which result in certification (assuming, of course, the student passes the professional teacher tests). It’s often close to a double major, though. One has to take all the necessary classes for the subject specialty (perhaps secondary ed majors might do 24-30 hours of advanced coursework instead of 30-36 hours for the major) along with all of the educational theory and practicum classes.

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In many states, ALL prospective teachers are required to major in a content area, with the education courses layered on top of all that. This is not just for secondary level, but for all grades (I’m in CT where that is the case).

So…majoring in a subject area as an undergrad is an option with then a masters program in education. Or as in some programs, a layered fifth year to complete it all.

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As a retired educator, after having looked at the courses which are offered, this is not similar to what’s offered at other schools. But bottom line is that the OP wants the option to major or minor in education even if it doesn’t immediately lead to a teaching certificate. Williams does not offer either a major or minor in education.

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Neither do at least a few others the OP has suggested as options. I would agree…she needs to look carefully at possible transfer schools to be sure they have what she is looking for.

And as a low income student, she might also want to consider how many years she wants to spend pursuing college degrees to become a teacher.

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Based on academic interests (geoscience, teaching cert) and being from Maine, I would not suggest rejecting Colby out of hand. It may ultimately not be what OP wants, but there are lots of kids who may feel more like OP’s people there. Waterville is, however, about half the size of Lewiston, so that should be a consideration.

I am sorry your are unhappy, OP. I hope that pursuing a transfer is lifting the burden a bit.

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@Bill_Marsh @AustenNut @thumper1

Thanks for explaining… and sorry for my poor choice of words. My comment about “adding on a teaching certification” was an awkward reference to the additional education-related classes as required to be certified by the state. I learned something from each of you, as usual!

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I fully agree with this! I think student happiness translates into better OU ones overall. I hope this student finds a happy home!

Bottom line…if Williams isn’t what this student wants it to be…moving on is not a bad idea.

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@tsbna44 this kid is a cancer survivor and has medical challenges. As the parent of a kid with serious health conditions, I do not agree with your comments on medical issues being “self-induced.”

To the OP, please file an appeal to get that W removed. There is no reason any of these schools need to know about your medical challenges, until you are accepted and need accommodations.

However, let your experience at Williams guide your choices. I still think that you may be in an adjustment period but the argument that Willams is too isolated does ring true. But avoid others with similar environments.

I would consider Smith since it is in an active area, with 4 other colleges to take classes from, including UMass which does have education. But you can also leave that for later: in my area, the public school helped teachers get a master’s.

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Yale is the only school from the list in her original post which does not offer either a major or minor in Education - and they may be just an oversight on her part.

A minor in education will give something but more theoretical than practical. But if this will satisfy this student, that really is all that matters.

The other thought is…folks with bachelors degrees in content areas (like English) can sometimes get teaching jobs at private school. Very often these do not require any kid of state board of education certification.

No need for an apology for a poor choice of words. Not a problem at all. I appreciate you for your thoughtful posts. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Knowing that you want an academically focused college with excellent financial aid and real education programs, I’d take a look at these as they all had students getting bachelor’s in education, per IPEDS:

  • Boston College (MA) – 100% of need met
  • Brandeis (MA): 97% of need met
  • Skidmore (NY) – 99% of need met
  • Smith (MA) – 100% of need met
  • Syracuse (NY) – 95% of need met
  • Vassar (NY) – 100% of need met
  • Wheaton (MA) – 96% of need met

These aren’t quite as generous, but may be worth a look.

  • Providence (RI): 91% of need met
  • Stonehill (MA): 90% of need met

As always, for every school you’re giving serious consideration to, run the Net Price Calculator. Not all schools calculate need in the same way, and Williams is among the most generous in defining need.

College Navigator offers a plethora of information, including the number of majors in the most recent graduating class by field, if you’re looking to see to what extent degrees listed on a school’s website are being used.

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Is Mt. Holyoke on your list? One of the best English teachers I ever worked with had a bachelors from the college. She was amazing. I think this might be worth checking…if you are open to attending a woman’s college.

@AustenNut what do you think?

I also know some more recent teacher grads from Skidmore. Again excellent.

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