<p>Not necessarily. But it is possible to slide through a highly prestigious school and get an impressive credential without getting much of an education (especially those schools with few or no core requirements). And it is equally possible to go to a non-prestigious school, apply yourself, seek out rigorous courses, and get a fine education - although the credential will not be nearly as impressive. I’ll leave it to you to speculate which better sets a person up to live a half-century or more in a increasingly complex and utterly unpredictable world.</p>
<p>Graduate in the article came out of college in 2006 when the job situation was good. She most likely came out of grad school in 2008 when the economy had imploded and jobs disappeared. </p>
<p>Queen’s Mom,
“you want rigorous…try getting an Econ degree at the University of Chicago”
My nephew is teaching math at U of Chicago. He mentioned that math prep. of student is not sufficient. That might explain why Econ degree is very challenging for them. Yes, some math is required for Econ. Many in my Econ. class in MBA program (not at Chicago, just local college) complained. I thought it was silly to complain about such a trivial thing as few math formulas, …but I was coming from engineering. Econ. at MBA level was “walk in a park” after classes like “Electrodynamics”. It all goes back to math prep. in k - 12, it is insufficient to thepoint that it is simply sad.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, I went to a magnet math and science high school before Chicago. My math prep was sufficient, believe me. Nevertheless, I found my Econ classes to be quite challenging. I am glad your Econ classes were a “walk in the park” - mine weren’t.</p>
<p>Thanks, sybbie. Yes, princessbride, the student to whom I referred was an OOS student. I don’t know what his major was, he didn’t say, but I can’t see why he would exaggerate his amount of debt, and make it look even worse (and himself more foolish!) than it actually is.</p>
<p>The “best” schools for economics typically include a lot of math in the economics major and courses, often requiring sophomore level math such as multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations, with junior level math like real analysis recommended. In many other schools only a year of freshmen calculus is required; business majors may require even less math.</p>
<p>I know someone in podiatry school. She has a classmate who takes out maximum loans & is using the money as if there is no tomorrow, going on out-of-country trips, buying a new car, etc. Friends try to caution her that loans need to be repaid but she turns a deaf ear & keeps spending. Hopefully she’s also studying hard so she’ll be able to get a degree, residency, internship AND job so she can make repayments.</p>
I made a similar comment on that back on page 2. It’s not that the grad wasn’t truthful, it’s that he was {insert your adjective here} enough to pay OOS rates by taking on loans.</p>
<p>Well, of course, he was stupid/foolish/naive/unconscious/irresponsible etc. My point was that there are students, and families, like this all over the country, who aren’t thinking clearly when it comes to college debt. NYU doesn’t have the market cornered.</p>
<p>Here’s an article from today’s Chronicle of Higher Education giving an employer’s perspective on what they’d like to see in today’s graduates. Funny, it doesn’t dwell much on the specific degree – but rather on the skills. (I was drawn to the first point – that there are people WITH degrees, who still aren’t employable.)
[Wanted:</a> Better Employees - Next - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/blogs/next/2011/12/12/wanted-better-employees/]Wanted:”>Next: Wanted: Better Employees)</p>
<p>Actually, HImom, there are now remote admin assistants. They do everything from scheduling appointments to reading emails for their employers, handling the routine ones and sending summaries or categorizing the incoming emails!</p>
<p>Well, engineering students seem to enter ahead of the pack, and then score the highest on the GMAT. It does seem to me that engineering students run through a gauntlet of courses that are difficult and time-consuming for even the best-prepared, and many who stay with the major do learn the value of persistence in the face of difficulty.</p>
<p>Still, I hear many complaints that hiring for entry-level engineering jobs (beginning with co-ops and internships) seems to focus on the specific major and completion of specific courses, rather than the broader set of skills acquired from an engineering education.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I was not an engineering major, and I do not by any means believe that engineering is the only major of value or the only major that can teach persistence or problem-solving. Frazzled kids have reported that instuction in many of the core engineering classes is very poor. Still, I have lots of respect for those who complete the curriculum.</p>
<p>My H is an industrial engineer in terms of his degree, but he had many mechanical engineering courses and practical labs due to the college’s emphasis on the practical application of engineering. However, he would not have been well-suited to an electrical engineering position (at least, not one that actually required practical skill). </p>
<p>There certainly are jobs that require specific training. MANY, however, do not. I know how frustrated I was returning to the work force … I did not have experience with a particular system, but I certainly had the skills necessary to learn that system. Yet, my resume wouldn’t make it past the screening process because I had to answer specific skill questions. So many entry level positions require experience that even an internship would not provide. I love reading about how employers want grads to be thus & so … yet their hiring process is not actually screening for thus & so.</p>
<p>When I took my current position, I was interviewed for my skill set … then I underwent testing to make sure I had the necessary math and logic skills for the position … then I had an interview with a senior partner of a human resources consulting firm to assess how I would fit into the position and the organization. My company took its time and screened carefully, and they were rewarded for doing so (in my not-so-humble opinion). Maybe employers need to beef up their screening process so they don’t hire so many not-ready-for-primetime employees. Do they not see that they may be at fault just a bit?</p>
<p>I read Academically Adrift. I am suspicious about the engineering results being low on critical thinking. It appears that the critical thinking test was heavy on writing. I wonder, since engineering often attracts a large number of foreign-born students or first generation students who are known to have very high Math SAT scores and lower Verbal scores. If one has less proficiency with the English language, might he not score as well in expressing his critical thinking ideas than someone stronger in the language? I wonder if such a scenario could have skewed the results.</p>
<p>^ I don’t know; I have the book, but not immediately at hand, and I certainly haven’t memorized the 60-page methodological appendix. I do recall that they do report some results based on language spoken in the home, but whether they control results by major field based on it, I don’t recall.</p>