Travel to Europe .. problem

Parents Forum
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<p>Sorry to confuse, it's Binx offering a place in Germany, I'm in boring LA. I do travel to Europe frequently for work and pleasure. Not sure if this would be a first visit to Europe for OP, but just in case, I'll point out some things. </p>

<p>If you are one that needs comforts, a budget trip to Europe today may not be comfortable. With the higher than New York City rents in Paris, I'd really like to see pictures of a $500/wk apartment in Paris before taking it. To begin with, even $3000/mo apartments in Paeis are modest. And standards are not what you expect in the States. Visiting a young frien's nicer than average in Paris last month, I learned she had a stove but no oven and this was typical.</p>

<p>For many, it would be hard to pass all of the excellent restaurants by for another street crepe. So how you usually travel needs to be factored in.</p>

<p>But my real point is that the $2400 trip may not be such a bad deal. Perhaps your son wants to see several countries if he will not get to visit often. Car rentals in Europe are much more expensive than in the States. Intra Europe flights are cheaper than ever with several Southwest-like airlines, but it will still add a couple of hundred dollars for each destination. If some meals are included and all transportation, and decent hotels, the deal is starting to sound pretty good.</p>

<p>Europe on $40/day is just no more.</p>

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<p>We also stay in apartments or houses when we travel. With few exceptions, we've found it usually is less expensive than staying in a hotel and our kids love the experience of shopping in local stores, meeting local people, etc. Doing so can make even touristy places seem like home. We have some wonderful memories of people we've met along the way that we never would have encountered if we had been locked inside a hotel or on a group tour.</p>

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<p>I participated in a school organized 14 days trip to France and Spain. </p>

<p>There were many positives, but also some huge drawbacks. The positive -which could be a drawback to some- is that the organized tours forced the group to see things they may have otherwise not seen. Another positive was that it was a lot of fun to travel with friends. Speaking about fun, most of it was when there was no organized "anything". Having to stick with the entire group was a huge pain. Price wise, the tour is probably cheaper than going solo, but it all depends on your expectations of comfort. I would say that the hotels we stayed were just a rung above fleabags, not the international chains someone mentioned. I am not sure how much one could save by going even lower on your own without going to the youth hostels favored by the backpackers. I know that my parents would never stay at the type of hotels we stayed at. Another angle that might frighten parents: ALL the hotels were in undesirable locations, mostly next to the railway stations in the older parts of the towns. These areas are usually known for a dangerous night life, a drawback that was considered a positive by a bunch of adventurous 16-17 years old who knew how to break the curfew. Suffice to say that the chaperones quickly found out that a group of students who did not sleep much behave much better during the day. </p>

<p>All the prepaid meals were absolutely horrendous, including the breakfasts in the hotels which usually consisted of a couple of stale croissants and coffee ... a far cry from the english breakfasts or even american fare. Because of this, most of us simply bought food on the street, which was not expensive once you learn what to buy. </p>

<p>Another huge negative was the transportation. While this company claimed to offer superlative accomodations and transportation, the truth was very different. To start it took more than 26 hours to fly from Texas to Paris. The company used no less than four different companies and must have exploited every cheap route available. To make things worse, we always boarded last and collected all the middle seats. The local transportation was decent but again without much comfort. I travelled in Germany and Austria with my soccer team, and I know that, at a price, busses come in different grades of comfort. Let's say that the school bus must have been a reject! </p>

<p>FWIW, we passed by Malaga and this article may shed some light. </p>

<p>"MÁLAGA seems at first an uninviting place. It's the second city of the south (after Sevilla), with a population of half a million, and is also one of the poorest: official unemployment figures for the area estimate the jobless at one in four of the workforce. Yet though many people get no further than the train or bus stations, and though the clusters of high-rises look pretty grim as you approach, it has its attractions." Full link at <a href="http://dg.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=44864&action=viewLocation&locationId=36184%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dg.ian.com/index.jsp?cid=44864&action=viewLocation&locationId=36184&lt;/a>, </p>

<p>My family has many relatives in Spain, and they do not consider the city as a great destination considering that many cities offer better choices. Obviously, it all depends what one looks for and it also depends on the season. Spain in May is vastly different from Spain in June to Spetember when hordes of northern invaders (hooligans and cheap tourists) debark on the spanish beaches. </p>

<p>Do I have a conclusion? Yes ... I would only recommend the organized tours if I knew ALL the participants and that the tour was for students only. I would not recommend a tour that has many families joining the students. Very soon, the parents start to get involved and show their displeasure with their non-family members. Since the feeling is mutual, it does not do much for creating a great ambiance. In our trip, the adults moaned and groaned at the accomodations, did not like to have to sleep in hotels where telephones and televisions had been removed to avoid disasters. We did not visit Greece but spartan was a much discussed word! Is it a good deal? For a single participant, the answer is yes. For a family, absolutely not. I do not think that one can do it much cheaper, but the trip could be much better. Paying a bit more would be wise.</p>

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<p>I agree with NSM, Apts are generally much better than hotels.</p>

<p>I have swapped homes; this is a great cheap way to travel. Basically, you pay nothing for accommodations so it is airline tickets plus fun events only. (We swapped with a family living in Paris.) If you live in a visit-worthy US city this is a great way to go. One of the best sidebar benefits to swapping was the THOROUGH purging & cleaning I gave my own home prior to leaving. </p>

<p>We used the apt as a home base for 3 weeks and went from Paris to Rome & the south of France. We took trains & rented cars. It was a great trip, except it was the punishingly hot summer when people were dropping like flies. </p>

<p>All the best times we had were in immersed in water: at "Aquaboulevard," a dorky water park near Paris; swimming in the Seine (WAY upriver from Paris!); the beach in Agde (my 11 year old was revolted by topless grandmas!), & picnicing & chilling in a creek near Gorges. Oh yeah, we went to the pool in Rome too.</p>

<p>A fun trip!</p>

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<p>For those of you who have rented apartments in Europe, how do you find the apartments? Do you go through a reputable agency or service?</p>

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<p>EF Trip? Get out while you still can. Sent my D on one (with a trusted, reliable French teacher). Dirty hotels, bad food. When one girl got sick, they couldn't handle it--her parents had to come get her! (Incidentally, my D was fine: she's a good traveler. But when she compared it with other group trips (she's been on three--two to France, one to Japan), she was not impressed. And it was far and away the most expensive of the three. It was 7 years ago; I hope they've changed. (Someone, please tell me I'm wrong.)</p>

<p>I disagree that you can do a good trip for four on $2400. For two, maybe, if you're going from the east coast and get lucky on air fare. </p>

<p>My D is going to London on her own over her spring break. $674 for air fare alone (from Seattle to London). Hostels are running about $35/night (and that's with 14 people in a room). She estimates $15/day for food--and she eats coffee, bread, cheese, and fruit and very little of that. So there's your $1200--and that's for a very very minimal trip.</p>

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<p>It is unfortunate that the dates changed and there is a conflict. BUT now...as I say to my kids "choices, choices". And you are dealing with two different issues...one, the money...and two, the choice issue. What does your kiddo want to do? I think that would be the driving force in this household. Both choices are worthy ones and only one can be done. If your kiddo picks the TASP program, you'll have to be prepared to lose some money. If your child picks the trip, you'll have to understand that he viewed that opportunity as the better of the two.</p>

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<p>Couple of years ago, our family of 5 went to France, Northern Italy and Monaco. Pretty much have to rent an apt. when 5 are going. Google "Paris vacation rentals", and you will have tons to sift through. We rented an apartment across from the Notre Dame Cathedral, for $500 for the week .Not through an agent, but directly from the owners. It was amazing. Walked to the grocery store, bought the freshest produce, delicious chicken, (what we eat in the U.S. is more like Chicken****), ate breakfast and dinner in the apt., and lunch outside. The Paris Metro has many deals/packages, and we saw everything at our own pace. On day 7, we rented a car, drove South, visited castles, and then through to the Ligurian Coast in Italy. That was our base for 5 days. Again, home-cooked meals, and drives to Pisa, Monaco. Unforgettable and unmatchable.
Renting in Paris, you need to first familiarize yourself a little with the districts or "arrondissements" (sp.?), so you don't get stuck in a far corner.</p>

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<p>I would make a strong case for my $245.00, go to Europe in the Spring, or early summer, (mid-June), and then come back and do TASP. But that's me.
Travelzoo always has amazing deals. $599.00 for airfare and hotels for 6 nights in Paris!!!</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the great advice. I'm working on the $245 and expect to get it!! I would love to travel with my son. It's just the two of us. I would like to take him to England but my imagination is working on other places as well.</p>

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<p>IcelandAir "Lucky Fares" (good until June 15th). I've used these and they're great, but the prices below are without taxes, which can add another $150 or so per person. But even adding that on, the fares are still very good:</p>

<p>FROM/TO: Amsterdam,Frankfurt,Paris,London,Glasgow
BOS: $386,$436,$386,$363,$364
BWI: $426,$363,$426,$363,$363
MSP: $553,$553,$553,$491,$526
NYC: $363,$398,$363,$363,$363
MCO: $426,$528,$486,$363,$404</p>

<p>So, if you were to go from Baltimore, round trip to Paris would be about
$426+~$150 = less than $600 each round trip.</p>

<p>The problem with these fares is that they are only from certain cities. If you live in any of these areas, you are OK, but otherwise, these probably wouldn't work for you.</p>

<p>If you do go to London, take some side trips: West to Windsor and Bath, south to Stonehenge. You might also check out Edinburgh with side trips there as well.</p>

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<p>We have rented apartments in Paris several times. Our experience was that our apartments did look like the pictures that were posted on the Internet site of the agency that we used. </p>

<p>We selected apartments based on affordability and location -- looking for places that were close to the subways and near areas that we enjoyed, such as the Left Bank. We did not need luxury features such as air conditioning or a dishwasher. Yes, we have those things at home, but we could do without them in Paris particularly in June when the weather is rarely beastly hot.</p>

<p>Typically near any apartment building in Paris are several bakeries and markets with fresh fruit. There also are some neighborhood restaurants as Parisians eat out more than do most people in the world. Restaurants near apartments tend to be reasonable because they serve the neighborhood, not many tourists.</p>

<p>Our apartments were clean and simply furnished. To cut costs, we also chose apartments that caused us to walk up 4-5 flights of stairs. I particularly liked this because combined with the various walking that I did around Paris (Paris is a walking lover's dream), I always manage to lose weight on my trips there). </p>

<p>In general, Paris is a remarkably safe city. It also is light until about 11 in mid June. One sees bejewelled elderly women walking around alone and taking the subway alone after dark.</p>

<p>My last apartment was a few blocks from the Centre Pompidieu (moderan art museum) and was about a 15 minute walk from Notre Dame. I'd walk there alone during the evening to enjoy the sunset, and then would stroll along the Seine to get an ice cream cone or go to the Latin Quarter.</p>

<p>The only time I was ever bothered was when I kept walking up and down the same stretch of the Seine, as I awaited my husband, who was late. I was politely approached by some nice looking, much younger French men, who spoke to me in English and were, I think, gigolos who mistook me for a tourist hoping to have a fun time with a younger man. They were easy to discourage.</p>

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<p>I don't know if this is still possible, but several years ago our family visited London and stayed in the Baden-Powell house (yeah, the Boy Scout guy). It was VERY cheap, clean, great location near museums, and has laundry facilities. The only requirement was that a family member be in scouting. Groups of scouts book far in advance so the further ahead you plan the better. A previous poster mentioned a room for 14 (I think (s)he meant 4) and that's what reminded me. One night we had a room for 15 because a troop had cancelled. It was like sleeping in a barracks. The beds are narrow twins and everyone had a locker. If you don't mind basic accomodations, you can't beat it for price and location.</p>

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<p>We live overseas and have traveled extensively with our son since he was an infant. (Burma at 18 months; that was a story!) We’ve climbed mountains, rafted down rivers and toured temples and museums in a zillion countries. Starting about the time he was about 12 he noticed when we were in Florence for example large roaming herds of American teenagers, sketching at the museums, eating at big tables in touristy restaurants (the kind WE would never step into), goofing off in the squares -- and a sense of longing set in to be part of that fun all-kid group. When he was in highschool he went on a school an art teacher led week in Europe and finally got to be one of those kids. Since then he’s traveled both with groups and with friends (and of course with his parents) but I bet if you asked him what was the most memorable experience he’d say that first highschool trip without Mom and Dad.</p>

<p>I can see your dilemma in having a conflict of schedule. If I were you I’d try to come to some compromise as kids just like to be with kids and no matter how appealing a family vacation is, it just isn’t the same as the grand tour with peers. A week with your kid in England sounds wonderful to me (though Italy is always my first choice) but don’t be shattered if he chooses the mundane.</p>

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<p>"Kids just like to be with kids" depends on the kids.
Both of my sons are very different in personalities, but as teens, both also had an aversion to group tours with peers. They didn't want to share a room with strangers and didn't want to be locked into someone else's schedule. They also didn't want the lack of freedom and individuality that occurs on group tours.</p>

<p>When we traveled as a family, my kids literally would look at the group tours of teens and shudder. My kids also both genuinely liked things like hanging out virtually by themselves in museums, and they never liked being with kids who thought that such things were boring or who complained all of the time because they couldn't find hamburgers and hotdogs.</p>

<p>Both of my kids are introverts, and I think that what family vacations gave them was more quiet time and independence than they would have gotten in groups with their peers. It may be, though, that teens who are more extraverted find the tour groups attractive. The same may be true of kids like momrath's who have done very extensive exotic traveling with their families since infancy.</p>

<p>My thoughts are that if neither the child nor the parent have ever been abroad before, it's nice if they do it together at least one time before the kid flies the nest. Sharing that kind of intense, wonderful new experience with one's child is a very special memory. After high school, it can be impossible to have that kind of experience with one's child because then they're likely to go abroad through college programs or they'll be involved in a romance or marriage and want to go with their partner.</p>

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<p>The following website has a photo and a review of the apartment we stay in when we're in Venice:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.i-escape.com/hotel.php?hotel_key=IT033%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.i-escape.com/hotel.php?hotel_key=IT033&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The building with the apartments is just beyond the bridge, on the left (brown door). Click on "Rooms" on the left, then go down to the bottom of the page to see interior photos. These are "serviced rooms," which means that they are just like hotel rooms in terms of service, so they're not cheap. But in comparison with the tourist hotels in Venice, especially for a larger group (5, in our case), they are a good value.</p>

<p>The review is accurate. It's not total luxury, but clean and - in my opinion - you feel like you're away from the tourist scene and living like a local. It takes a little work to find your way around Venice, using alleys and tiny bridges over small canals (There is no direct way to get from point A to point B), but it's worth every bit of the learning experience.</p>

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<p>My hubby, 2 teens and I spent 5 weeks in Europe, and stayed in YHA hostels most of the time. We booked in advance and had a "family" room most of the time, 1 room with bunk beds and our own bathroom. It was totally wonderful, although we found the hostels in Germany rather noisy. Bothered my hubby but not the rest of us. It's also a great way for my kids to meet teens from other countries.</p>

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<p>Anxiousmom, is there not an upper age limit on YHA, (is YH=Youth Hostels); I had looked into something similar sounding many years ago, and was over the age limit, even way back then:)</p>

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<p>I'm actually staying in a hostel in Seattle week after next (Hostelling International, not YHA). The last hostel I stayed in was in Budapest - a youth hostel - and the sound of the disco kept me up most of the night! I'm getting too old for that!</p>

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<p>YHA only had an upper-age limit in Bavaria, if I remember correctly. We were still okay to stay there, though, as we were travelling with the kids. Denmark had the greatest YHA hostels, and mostly we saw older people using them there. We had one terrible experience with a private hostel in London that we found on the internet, but the YHA hostels were all great fun - and it was a wonderful way to meet fellow budget-minded travellers.</p>