My son, applying for piano performance, just had 5 or so trial lessons with different professors in different colleges last week. Couple of them gave indication that he would be a great fit to their studio and another one complimented his musicianship and ability. We don’t have any experience dealing with music performance admissions - can we put strong credence to these professors’ words and trim our college list. Today, we have the usual list with some targets, reaches and safeties. He has a 4.25 weighted GPA and 1500 SAT and I don’t expect him to bomb his senior year. Any advice on how to navigate teacher feedback will be welcome! Thank you.
If your student is applying for music performance, really…the audition will be THE thing that matters. The strength of his audition relative to others on his instrument will be what decides acceptance or not.
For music performance majors applying to schools requiring an audition, I personally don’t think there is a “safety”.
At some university programs, your student will need to be in the ballpark for admissions to the university in general. But their SAT and GPA won’t be the deciding factor for music performance admissions.
@compmom ?
5 Likes
@thumper1 thank you for the reply. Understand the importance of audition and the need to think differently about safety vs reach etc…
Any experience on how to interpret strong positive feedback from very senior faculty (one is the chair of piano, another is a very senior renowned piano faculty etc.)?
My son is a relatively late starter and hasn’t taken part in any competitions so far. The professors really loved the way he played his Bach, Beethoven and Chopin from his audition repertoire and now we are wondering if we can use this feedback to trim his college list.
I would be happy for the positive feedback. Keep in mind…not every music performance major has taken part in competitions, or summer festivals even. This entering group hasn’t had the same accessibility to those things during COVID years.
We found that the trial lesson teachers were very positive. No one ever gave a bad review after a lesson…but heavens, we hoped that wouldn’t happen.
Still…there is no way to know how many people are applying and how many openings there are.
One sample of one. Our kid did a trial lesson with a well regarded teacher. He got excellent feedback….and did apply. Well…turns out, there was only ONE opening on the instrument that year. This was a conservatory setting within a public university, and the seat had to go to an instate student. We lived OOS. The instrument teacher wrote our kid a very nice letter saying our kid had everything that he needed to be successful in the studio, and the teacher was sorry he couldn’t offer him a spot. He sent the letter pretty quickly…and explained that the denial would be coming shortly thereafter. The teacher further offered to help the kid with admission choices elsewhere (which the kid actually took him up on that offer).
So…circumstances sometimes dictate who will be accepted, and who won’t be.
Still…with a positive lesson, I would apply. The key in these lessons is NOT to determine if you will be accepted or not. It is to determine IF you get accepted that you feel good about the applied faculty. In other words, if your kid didn’t feel comfortable with the piano teacher, I’d say…jettison the school.
5 Likes
Got it, makes sense. Thank you.
@compmom, he is applying mainly to university-based performance BM’s and he is applying to universities that actively encourage double degree or double majors. He does have strong interest in Statistics / data science. We have so far avoided strong non-BM schools like Ivies that don’t do auditions because we didn’t think his GPA was good enough (got a few B’s in Honors/AP classes. Unweighted GPA is 3.75).
The list of private schools are: NU Bienen, CMU, USC, Vanderbilt, NYU and Rice.
Publics are: UC (we are CA), Indiana, Mich, Wash, Wisc and UNC
We had a few safety schools that we have now removed after this tour of trial lessons. He does like somewhat large schools and he is biased to being in California. That’s why we didn’t pursue Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence etc.
Thank you for your advice!
Is this is the case…I think only two CA schools doesn’t sound like that is the case? Or is he applying to a lot of CA publics?
I’ll give my opinion…doing 11 or more auditions is going to be challenging unless the audition landscape has changed a lot. I know that some schools do Pre-screens…but logistically, how will this student do 11 or more auditions?
1 Like
First off, congratulations to your son for having performed so well academically while also putting in all the many hours of practicing that led to such proficiency in piano. In terms of acceptance to the music schools at universities, it’s ALL about the audition. They don’t care what competition he may have won - they care how he plays at the audition, and they may also care about how he responds to feedback at the audition - can he incorporate their suggestions, is he trainable. I don’t think that his GPA and SAT will keep him out of any school where his audition gets him into the music school, so he probably doesn’t have anything to worry about - if the music school really wants him, the academic acceptance will come too, if the school requires application to both, or needs to have both sides approve the acceptance.
I think that you’re wise to steer away from the Ivies, unless he also has very strong accompanist skills, could be an accompanist and rehearsal pianist for student productions at an Ivy that doesn’t have music performance majors. If he has those skills (many classical pianists don’t), has a track record of doing such in high school, and can get a strong music recommendation that mentions this ability, then use that! At an Ivy without a school of music, he could submit a music supplement that supports both his classical playing and his accompanist playing. You might be able to use that skill to vault him into an Ivy or its equivalent, because his academic achievement does meet the bar, and his accompanist skills would be in great demand for student productions. Classical piano is a lovely achievement, in and of itself, but schools without performing arts majors do consider who they need for a vibrant on-campus student performing arts scene, so in certain cases they will take the dancer, singer, musician, etc. with high academic achievement over the person with a similar academic record, but no performing arts skill. Of course, that means that he might not be majoring in performance music, but since classical piano is largely an individual sport, it would be quite easy for him to continue to study privately, anywhere he goes.
My child considered first which schools had teachers with whom he wanted to study. He asked his current and past teachers, networked with current and recent students, listened to recordings (since you often wind up playing the way your teacher plays). A few teachers had a reputation of being unpleasant to work with. A few were obviously stretched too thin - he knew there was no way that he’d be able to get a weekly lesson with them. Then he looked at the academic side - did the school have a generally high level of academics, did they have the non-music major that he wanted. Then he looked at the size, setting, all his other criteria. He did this all on a spreadsheet, and when he was done, he had only about seven schools that met all his criteria. One of them didn’t have a performance music major - that was the tippy-top Ivy in the same city where he’d played in the youth symphony, with the conductor who also conducts the Ivy’s symphony, and that’s where he wound up, with an early acceptance. Going there was a trade-off. Big name school with myriad great performance ensembles, but no performance music major, would have to study privately if he wanted to continue studying. He’s happy with the decision, says he can always go for a masters in performance music if he wants it, although he does occasionally get wistful about having passed up on Conservatory or a leading school of music - but mostly he’s too busy playing music and with his academics to think about it!
2 Likes
@parentologist I don’t know of any Ivy that doesn’t have a music major. Do you mean performance major?
Some university-based programs do look at academics but yes the audition is the main thing for a performance degree.
If he considers majoring in math or CS or anything other than music, and continuing with music via lessons and EC performance, then he might want to apply to some schools that DON’T have a school of music/BM program. Check to see if the best teachers and resources go to the BM students on a campus that does. (Oberlin’s newish Musical Studies BA is an attempt to address this issue.)
Commitment to music and academics simultaneously during high school shows discipline, time management skill, and “passion.” While Ivies and other selective schools are certainly trying to fill needs on campus, they also honor the aspects of hard work and “character” involved in the high-level practice of music during high school.
1 Like
Oh, thank you! In a lengthy post about majoring in performance music, in an entire thread about majoring in performance music, in the last paragraph of that lengthy post, I forgot to put the word performance in front of the word music. This could have led to a grave misunderstanding with serious consequences for the OP, or anyone else who might have come across it. Thank you for having pointed this out. I’ve corrected it.
1 Like
Just want to add that I did not mean to focus on Ivies. There are many schools, including little Ivies like Tufts, Williams, Amherst, Wesleyan, and Vassar, many other schools with thriving music BA’s and/or music EC’s. I would think a pianist would need access to an excellent teacher and performance opportunities and could find those in a variety of types of schools.
A BM is immersive with 2/3-3/4 classes in music, and a BA will have 1/4-1/3 classes in music. A BA or BS in math or CS or whatever would leave room for music electives. Schools with fewer or no gen eds might appeal (Brown, Amherst).
If the student is certain that he wants a BM, great. Just extending the lines of the box, so to speak. (I know a lot of CS majors who have music in their lives, and a few who did grad school in music too…)
1 Like
@thumper1 we figured he would deal with auditions when he gets through the pre-screening. It is quite possible that we may have to convert a few schools lower on his list to zoom auditions (some schools allow that option).
My kid applied to two colleges (with music supplement) and 4 BM programs, and it was pretty overwhelming 
If the presecreen requirements are all different, it’s a lot!
@parentologist thank you for an insight filled post and thank you for sharing your son’s approach. Congratulations to him on being meticulous and landing what he wanted.
My son has some accompanying experience - couple of chamber and orchestra performances with San Jose youth orchestra… has also worked as a rehearsal pianist for a community theater production (Jungle Book adaptation) that is traveling around the US for performances (he is not part of the actual show - they use recordings). This featured Jazz and Indian music, not classical.
His interest to be a data scientist in a sports team is stronger than his interest to be a concert pianist but he doesn’t want to let go of piano and hence we are pursuing double major. Your son’s experience and his approach is something we will think about… thank you.
@compmom oh wow! As far as I can tell, the repertoire requirements are all subset of below.
- One Bach WTC Prelude and Fugue
- One complete Classical sonata (he is playing a Beethoven)
- One virtuosic etude (Chopin)
- One substantial Romantic era piece (like Chopin Scherzo) and
- One post 1950 piece (he is playing a Kapustin)
Musically, memorizing and perfecting all this is still not a done deal for him and which is why we are not doing ED but I feel he will be there before December. I was thinking you and @thumper1 were more alluding to the travel logistics of audition…
2 Likes
IME, positive feedback is wonderful and a great sign, but don’t read too much into it. My son got a great response from the profs at the two schools he didn’t get into. One waitlisted him, so I assume they genuinely DID like him a lot and would have found a space for him if they could have. The prof at the only school that flat out rejected him was lovely during the lesson, they seemed to have a great rapport, he suggested that my kid get in touch with the principal clarinet from our local symphony and “use my name” because they had gone to Julliard together, etc. So…admissions are just very tricky to predict with music, for reasons others have pointed out. I’d also say not to read too much into a LACK of positive feedback (either at the lesson or later at auditions)–some of it just comes down to personality. Best of luck to your son!
3 Likes
I assume you have read the Double Degree Dilemma essay in the ReadMe thread on this forum and know the difference between a double major and a double degree 
If his career interest is in data science or other STEM field, combining it with music as a double major is tough due to scheduling issues. A double degree takes 5 years and can be intense. Having both on the same campus can help.
I guess if I were the parent- and I am not! - I would encourage him to consider getting a BA or BS in his field of career interest, and do music via lessons and EC’s, on and off campus. He could choose a school where off campus gigging is also possible if that is relevant.
For a kid who doesn’t even want a career as a concert pianist, doing prescreens and auditions at all those schools seems excessively onerous.
I am going way beyond what you asked so indulge me. He could apply to two conservatory BM programs, two double degree programs, and two BS programs (the latter at schools without BM programs or at least giving the same teachers and opportunities to non BM students). Then choose in late spring. Just as an example.
Sending prescreens and potentially doing auditions at a lot of schools could be stressful. Travel is the least of it. I am confused why he is taking this route if he doesn’t want a music career. Does he really need a double degree to continue piano?
Again, we looked at gen eds to see how many music classes could be taken as a non-major, and also looked at how many music classes for the major (at Harvard it was 50% which was quite high). Freedom to choose classes w/out gen eds can make it easier to take music electives along with lessons and EC’s, when majoring in something else.
1 Like
I had a very similar student applying to double degree options a few years back (I have another kid applying for music this year too). I think your list is great assuming you can afford them.
I will say with my older double degree very academic kid, he got some pushback at sample lessons from individual profs on pursuing double degree. At schools that widely tout their double degree options. We actually found these larger universities with grad programs generally flexible and welcoming to him and that has been a great fit (He is a senior, he has stuck with double degree). Anyway, it’s great he’s had generally positive feedback.
I actually think having 11 schools for piano performance is ok, I assume this is a lot of prescreens required. My older kid applied to 12 (I think he had 1-2 non-audition options) and ended up at auditioning at 6 or 7. You may not get invited everywhere and I do think reasons can be broad. If you do get invited everywhere, you can prioritize. Some schools are allowing some flexibility with online auditions. My kid had profs he really clicked with that gave him some pretty detailed reasons about why they couldn’t take him take that year.
My younger kid has 7-8 schools, but she is dual enrolling at a safety option she is very happy with (and working with a music prof there). And we learned a lot about how pricing works for us. A lot of music students go onto grad student and it’s been a priority to have some flexibility to possibly help with expenses, etc for grad school.
1 Like
@compmom @KaylaMidwest super helpful and truly appreciate you taking the time.
@compmom - All valid points. Part of the reason why he is doing what he is doing, is that he does enjoy both and not ready to let go of either. Part of the reason is that we are new to this (our older one was a CS major).
He did talk to a few kids at some of the schools in his list that are doing double major or dual degree and thinks that he can be organized and continue practicing 2+ hours and keep up with academic load. So far, this has indeed come at the expense of social interactions/memories during high school and we do wonder some times if he should pursue the music-light approach you are suggesting.
One of the professors in his academic area of interest at NU said that while he has had kids from Bienen do that major, but scheduling has indeed been a challenge, like you rightly point out.
He doesn’t need a double degree to continue to learn and play piano at a high level, but some of the schools do not allow non-BM kids to take lessons with their piano faculty (only grad students etc.).
I am thinking that decision-making is for a later date. Like @KaylaMidwest says, we could prioritize face-to-face auditions once we know how he did on his pre-screenings. I am not downplaying the recordings of 8 complex pieces for pre-screening but he is making progress towards it. Once we record for one college, it’s the same for all colleges, at least for pre-screenings (which is a subset of the max audition rep).
Some schools, Harvard among them, ask the students to find their own teacher, and give credit and sometimes funding for lessons. We had one school, I think it was MIddlebury, offer to find a teacher.
I happen to know, as well, that if he applied, say, to both NEC and Harvard, he could possibly study with the NEC teacher (or BoCo) wihtout doing the double degree. This was suggested to us by an NEC chair who wanted to teach my kid, and the chair said it was a more affordable and equally good option (money was an issue for us) compared to the double degree.
Some kids express that they don’t like having two campuses for part of their undergrad- and grad- years. Also sometimes kids want a different school for masters rather than being locked in.
Just playing devil’s advocate here. The music curriculum includes theory and musicianship, music history, analysis, composition, ethnomusicology and technology no matter where you go. If he doesn’t do music major, double major or double degree then those would have to be electives along with other classes in the area of music. But EC’s can be strong.
Practice, rehearsals and performances can conflict with STEM labs but there are students who do do it. But I know a few who chose the BS route and did music lessons, EC’s and gigging. It doesn’t have to be "music light’ or at least “performance light” but the full academic music curriculum would be less available, depending on how many credits are left free.