Trigger Warnings, Safe Spaces and Free Speech, Too (letter from Chicago student to NYT)

Parents Forum
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@runswimyoga: It’s entirely possible that there are students who either have not registered their disability with the school or who do not have the medical recommendation to support them. I’m frankly not sure why we should protect the former–they haven’t done anything to protect themselves. The latter is a more compelling case.

However, you have to weigh the risks to the latter group against the purpose of education. By the time controversial subjects are coming up in school, the students are generally in high school or college. At this point, education is a lot more geared towards teaching students what they’ll need in life rather than teaching them what they’ll need the next year in school. Real life doesn’t come with trigger warnings or (broad) “safe spaces.”

The danger of not preparing students generally for something that will almost certainly happen, and which training is fundamental to the purpose of the institution, all to accommodate a fraction of a minority of students (that may or may not even exist in the given classroom) is a tough sell. We send students to these places to try real life with safety nets, because it not too long they’ll be playing for real. The danger of actually coddling them simply outweighs the potential benefit of maybe protecting a few students that fell through the cracks.

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@Demosthenes49 When in real life at work does your boss make you read a graphic account of a women being raped (unless of course you are in police dept crime lab)? It almost never happens.

They are mostly asking for trigger warning for rape accounts. We aren’t keeping women on campus safe from sexual assault and then we are refusing and mocking their request for trigger warnings about rape and assault. That to me is inexcusable. What is the harm in providing a heads up?

I have never had to listen to a graphic rape account at work for my education. In fact if I did hear one, I could go to HR and never have to work w that person again or they would be disciplined .

If I choose to read one I can, but even on CNN they warn viewers that they are about to see hear something graphic before showing, they don’t just shove it down their throats/ put it in your face so to speak w/o warning.

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@runswimyoga: At my work I read graphic things all the time. I agree that this is probably not the general rule. But we’re not talking about just experiencing things at work, we’re talking about experiencing things generally. The world is full of people that disagree with literally any position you hold. Making your college classroom a “safe space” makes that course less able to train you to deal with those encounters in life outside of college.

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@Demo
I agree with you to an extent. BUT we are also not talking about fully developed adults here whose brains have matured to full reasoning. That doesn’t happen until about 26yrs old.

We are also talking about a minority that gets subjected to the “bad or harmful” experience. Everybody doesn’t get to have this experience usually it encompasses already marginalized vulnerable youth here who may not have adequate support systems in place. That isn’t a great outcome- IMO, we can do better.

Which is why I don’t like the word “safe space” in the Deans letter, bc he was using it to mean something it is not. Safe spaces are actively used at U Chicago and on campuses everywhere and were developed to protect LGBTQ and women. They are important -He implied trigger warnings were not going to be used at U Chicgo- many teacher do use them - they are important too.

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One would hope that the experienced adult would be better at adulting than the novice. I’m just pleased ubiquitous cameras weren’t around when I was an excitable kid.

Is it better that today I’d be terrified to get into a car with a stranger to ride into town when my car broke down?
Is it better that surveillance cameras allow us to learn the truth about a criminal incident?
Is it better that we’re concerned about microaggressions than lynchings these days?
Is it better that people can be more open about their identity when that identity doesn’t fit mainstream norms?
Is it better than media allows us to see some issues as systemic problems rather than local issues?
Is it better that every little quirk is diagnosed rather than being seen as so-and-so’s little eccentricity?
Is it better that there are wheelchair ramps going into buildings?

All any of us can hope to do is to improve the world a little bit every day. Some days are better than others.

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@runswimyoga: You don’t have to be finished to be old enough. High school is old enough to cover some of the more difficult topics. College definitely is. I have no issue with support groups. That’s just not the proper role for the classroom.

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I am not to sure I understand your difference between rude, assault and harsh. in your posts, what you describe is rude behavior and bullying, which crosses into assault territory.

However, “harsh” can be used in normal discourse, just like “offended.” Maybe an example would help.

At my DS’s college, there was lunch table discussion about gay marriage and my DS stated that he is not in favor of it and explained why. A gay student heard him and freaked out that someone had the gall to state this opposition so freely. The student had a near meltdown and called my DS homophobic etc.

My DS looked at the student and stated (paraphrased), “When you calm down, you can explain to me why you can state you are in favor of gay marriage, which you just did, but I cannot state and believe the opposite?”

As usual, the student never addressed my DS’s points - all that was said is you cannot say that because it is offensive and homophobic, which is inaccurate/wrong because my DS has nothing against gay people.

So, would my DS’s statement be labeled as “harsh” if he expressed this when talking with others and your DS overheard him?

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I don’t know about runswimyoga, but it’s been kind of a relief to me not to have to debate gay marriage any longer, now that it is legal.

I have a gay kid, too. fwiw

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@awcntdb No, My son would not label your sons comments as harsh. My son would not have a melt-down nor “freakout”. My son fully understands that some people object to him having the exact same civil rights as they do because they think it offends their version of religion. …

But, TBH, my son would not be friends with your son. In his mind his friends don’t object to him having the same civil rights as they do… but he wouldn’t speak against your son for having those views. (I on the other hand am not nearly as kind as my son is … :slight_smile: )

This is not what our experience has been - neither in the classroom nor at the lunch table. While in educational activities at school, My son has heard slurs in the classroom (slurs that won’t make it through this websites filtering software) and has also been labeled a pedophile, an abomination to humanity, and an assault to God and human decency… many things that like you said, one might label assault and bullying.

The classes were Ap LIT, Language and AP Gov and the purpose was to have a debate illustrating the use of rhetoric, and Free speech and some other bs excuse I can’t remember… How does one fight back against that (and do you really think that was in my son’s best interest given the higher rate of suicide for lgbt youth)?

My son had an ENTIRE school sports team attack him on social media while they were on the school’s sports bus coming back from a school sporting event. (They made up sexually explicit things that they said they saw him doing in the school bathroom … each one would try and out “gross graphic” the other at his expense. My son didn’t even know half of these kids). The school tried to get him to not press formal charges bc they said the kids were just joking and didn’t really mean it it was just in fun… sports you know are fun…

Try experiencing that and then going into the same class with some of these students and be called an abomination…
when I say harsh I mean harsh.

In the first month of college, my son has had someone agree to room with him and then backed out at the last minute with the reason “because you are gay I am not allowed by my family to live with you.”

Two days ago a speaker came on the middle of campus and started using all of the sin, hell ,pedophile, abomination blah blah blah,… rhetoric again… for hours … not at all nice civil discourse … it was harsh.

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^I am certainly sorry for everything your son has been through.

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I am too @runswimyoga. That story makes me very sad. Why is the school not stepping in and addressing this? What is wrong with these people?

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What world are you living in?

The discussion I mentioned happened after the Supreme Court ruling. A court ruling does not negate others’ beliefs. Have you not noticed abortion is legal and it is still heavily debated? This idea that a civic debate is over because of a court ruling is a bit short-sighted, in my view.

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I’m going a few posts back, but honestly, if trigger warnings were limited to graphic scenes or discussion of combat/violence or sexual assault – i.e, two known triggers of PTSD reaction likely to have been experienced by a not insubstantial number of college students – I wouldn’t mind them, although I still don’t think they should be required.

I’ve seen calls for TWs that go much farther than that. This article includes examples of students – and sometimes groups of students – asking for warnings for racism, colonialism, and religious persecution. Some of the triggers also warn for minor elements in a novel – when I saw that a student asked for a suicide trigger warning for “The Great Gatsby,” I had to google to remind myself what he was talking about. I wouldn’t think of Gastby as an example of graphic violence, either. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/may/19/us-students-request-trigger-warnings-in-literature

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Because it’s legal, I’m on vacation from debating gay marriage. IF it ever becomes necessary, I’ll debate it again.

dstark: I listened to the podcast. I don’t know. I think probably I have to read the transcript. If I’d known there was a transcript, I’d have read it hours ago.

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@alh @HarvestMoon1 Thanks for your support - I really appreciate it. I wish I knew the answer to that.

It has been beyond frustrating (understatement) for our family. We just wanted the school to acknowledge that what my son experienced wasn’t “ok” and that they would take steps to correct the problem… they fought us every step of the way. He (and we) couldn’t wait to graduate!

Thankfully with the support of a national advocacy agency he (and we) were able to effect limited change in policy at that school and create a GSA for other students- but more importantly my son felt a support system and connected with a group of people that made him feel valued… I shudder to think what would have happened to my son if he didn’t have parental support and the support of that national advocacy group…

which is why I come on this thread - to try an stand up and support lgbt youth because we hear " it gets better", but the youth have to “get through” first to make it to the “better” part…

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hugs

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OK, I understand your use of harsh better.

However, our sons are very different, as what you aptly describe in the quote above is the difference between intellectual tolerance and intolerance. You never address what if someone’s objections are presented and grounded with well-reasoned arguments? Can your son not process and understand others’ well-reasoned arguments without being personal?

My DS has zero issue being friends with someone who disagrees with him, as long as the disagreements are based on well-reasoned arguments. I taught my son to be intellectually tolerant of different views and, more importantly, to understand the difference between treating someone well and agreeing with them - these are not remotely the same things, and they are not mutually exclusive. One can treat another well and totally disagree intellectually at the same time.

In my life, my best friend in college held almost the opposite views of me on many fundamental things. People actually wondered how the heck we got along and even defended each other when confronted by others. It came down to one thing and one thing only - I listened to him and understood his arguments, which were beautifully presented. And he did the same with me. The only difference is that we often reached opposite conclusions and acted differently on the issues. We respected each others viewpoint. So what if we disagreed for he is a great guy, smart as a whip, kind as they come to my kids, and was a blast to have at my wedding.

I would say your son is missing out on the possible wonderful friendships of people who may not agree with him on a host of issues. Yet, those are people who would treat him well (my DS being one of them), and their friendship is not dependent on thinking alike or agreeing on issues.

The true hallmark of intellectual discourse is not the ability to hang out with people who think like you because hanging out always with the like-minded requires no energy or thought; it is a passive existence and often leads inherently to philosphical stagnation. True intellectual discourse and “heavy-duty” introspection meet humanity when people are able to fundamentally discuss a serious issue and totally disagree and then are still able to go out and have dinner and a drink together and laugh at each other’s bad jokes. At least, that is how I live my life anyway, and both my DSs do as well.

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Again, its easy to be over-sensitive when what you are “sensitive” about isn’t “over”. I’m not worried about my sons intelligence, thanks though. Your son sounds like a fine young man.

If say women didn’t have the right to vote, and say a male “friend” of mine objected to my right as a women to vote, I wouldn’t be friends with him because discrimination really isn’t intellectual discourse any way you try an spin it. Its just discrimination.

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apprenticeprof: thank you for posting that link. If you don’t mind me asking, I wonder what trigger warnings you have been asked to provide by your students or the administration at your college?

I’m reading a lot about trigger warnings. I know some professors around the country. What I read in the media doesn’t match what is reported to me as real life experiences. So I’m just curious. Thanks in advance.

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One example of trigger warnings common in everyday life which didn’t exist while I was growing up: “Viewer discretion is advised” warnings in newscasts and documentaries before showing something violent, sexually graphic, or anything which may potentially offend the sensibilities of your average adult viewers.

Some of the warnings for violence or other potentially offensive news footage which the news station felt merited the warnings felt to my perspective…to be a bit on the excessive sheltering side in one sense.

However, I recognize that one possible reason for my feeling this way was growing up as a child/adolescent watching TV and newscasts which showed far more graphic violent footage and more without any such prior warnings along with growing up in a neighborhood where violent crimes…including muggings, childhood classmates getting stabbed/shot at/killed, and even being held at gunpoint at a friend’s apartment when we walked in on an armed burglary were part of my childhood reality*.

  • Part of growing up in NYC in the 1980s and early '90s...the tail end of the high crime era which started in the late '60s.