Oh yeah, my high school had a student who ended up “out East” for college. He went to Kenyon.
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Totally disagree about the upper Midwest, which has lots of well-respected LACs. Macalester is very well-known.
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I think if you pick 100 people randomly across the country and ask about any of these, you’ll get between two and 10 who will know and can name the state with Trinity and Skidmore highest. Trinity has more of a rep now due to the Tucker Carlson die hards.
But you can make that same statement about Rice, Emory, Tufts, and others that are in theory much higher profile. Colby is higher rated than all of these and I doubt 5 random people ever heard of it let alone know it’s in Maine.
But clearly they all produce successful grads- however one wants to measure success - and what else matters ?
As for the mentioned in the first post, B School - none of it matters - except if you get a really great work experience because of the school and that outcome can come from most any school in America, especially if the student hustles.
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For Econ major with interest in business career, I can say that Denison is an excellent choice. In addition to traditional Econ, there are concentrations within Econ in financial econ, plus major in data analytics etc., with strong record of post-grad job placement in business. Knowlton career center is fantastic, with career development programming beginning in the 1st year, and evolving through the students’ time on campus. There is a strong NY and DC presence at Denison, with actively engaged alums who take interns, mentor etc. The Denison in Columbus hub happened after my student graduated, but sounds like a great opportunity.
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i wasn’t talking about around the country. I was talking about the upper Midwest. You suggested that these schools were not well-known in their own geographic region because it’s not as LAC-oriented as New England, and I was suggesting that this is not really correct.
How many people in Missouri know of Skidmore or Macalaster? Rhodes is not high profile in North Dakota. In Nebraska? Yes, a certain set of well-educated people will know them all but the average person will not, particularly outside of their own state. Larger employers will, but regional employers are less likely to be familiar with any outside their own state.
All fine schools and one can do well from any of them but I wouldnt expect much reputation knowledge from most people. Unless their basketball team is in the finals.
Its Large public flagships get respect in the midwest that poor Rutgers can only dream of.
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Nope. I’m just talking about in general. I don’t think one should go to a school assuming staying local. I mean in general terms but not being well known hasn’t hurt them per se.
I’m just noting there’s a ton of great ‘unknown to the masses’ schools out there - and it’s really to OP who is trying to figure out which will be best for the student.
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Macalester has an amazing alumni network, esp in banking and finance. Econ major is tops. You can seamlessly cross-register at nearby schools, including business schools at UMN and St. Thomas. And internships in the Twin Cities are incredible - is a big-time Fortune 500 town in its own right. Not academically snobby, but super awesome.
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An AO at a B-school would probably not rate any of these as better than others for the transcript part of the application, which matters far less than job experience.
Trinity probably has the strongest ties to NYC (Wall Street) given proximity and accessibility. But for someone who is more interested in being in the Midwest, that’s not much of a selling point!
Really though, for what the LAC experience is, pick the one that feels most like “your” people. These aren’t totally interchangeable on that front. Of these, my kid preferred Trinity and Denison. But his sensibilities might not be the same as yours.
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Has your son visited? My son considered Trinity, Kenyon and Skidmore, but after visiting, he preferred Kenyon’s environment and, to a lesser extent, Skidmore’s. This was a subjective and personal reaction: someone else might feel differently about Kenyon’s insular, rural campus.
Although my son ultimately chose a different northeastern LAC, Kenyon remained a top choice. He perceived the culture as being friendly, active, sporty/outdoorsy and supportive.
I understand that physical setting isn’t one of the criteria you’re seeking input on, but the differences in environment are marked and would impact the student’s overall experience.
You might also ask each school’s Economics Department (and business if they have one) where recent majors have interned, attended graduate school or worked after graduation. Many colleges will post this information on their websites.
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Direct experience with Rhodes. Phenomenal community among the students, with a civic orientation towards service in Memphis. Kinney program is for real - check it out - and Bonner Scholars for service oriented students. Excellent merit based scholarships. In the Colleges that Change Lives for a reason. Compared to many other SLAC’s, lower percentage of students from top 1% of wealth. More “middle class” than many SLA colleges; less orientation among students towards East-coast competitive prestige. Interesting curricular “Search” program. Campus is simply gorgeous. Honor code super strong and important, results in high levels of trust between faculty and students, and between students. Unless has changed recently, NO theft … things can be left out at the library or dining hall or residence hall and never touched.
Semi-direct experience with Macalester (friend teaches there). Super-global orientation among students and faculty. Inability to house all students on campus results in somewhat more fragmented community (in my opinion). Dining facility feels a bit cramped. Supportive academic atmosphere, friendly students, not competitive at all.
Skidmore - least direct experience: gorgeous setting. Students perhaps less likely to be talking about class at the dining hall than Rhodes or Macalester, (?). Again, supportive academic atmosphere, friendly students.
No experience with Trinity or Denison, just opinions 
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We went to Admitted Students Day at Denison last year. We were extremely impressed with everything. My D liked the sample class. The faculty and students were warm and welcoming. Our tour guide was a football player with a Global Commerce major. He had a job lined up in Chicago after graduation. The pool was beautiful. Liked the firm commitment to liberal arts combined with the practicality of the Knowlton Center and Denison Edge in Columbus. I know two recruited athletes starting this fall. Great kids and talented athletes.
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Actually, I would greatly appreciate if we take a little dive together into the cultural differences between NE and MW LACs. We definitely sensed differences, but your take would be very valuable.
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My daughter is a very happy Kenyon student, but she has no experience with their Econ program. We receive weekly emails from the Kenyon Career Development Office, and it looks like they do a lot of events and activities to support their students’ careers. Every week they also send a list of “Kenyon connection” opportunities for internships and job openings, so it seems that their alumni network is strong. Kenyon and Macalester were among my daughter’s top choices, but she had different criteria (and we only looked at the Midwest for colleges).
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My general understanding, having spoken with parents of kids in Midwestern and NE LACs, is where LACs fit in the college “landscape”.
There are a whole bunch of kids at Midd, for whom Midd was their second choice, after Dartmouth. In the Northeast, LACs are part of the list of “elite” colleges, which are the destinations of kids from “elite” private and public high schools, and high achievers in general. The fact that some of these LACs are known a “the Little Ivies” demonstrates that place that these colleges hold in the college application landscape.
The colleges are called “little Ivies”, but they could just as well be called “alternative Ivies”. The LAC applicants pool has a large overlap with the applicant pool for the “elite” research universities.
In the Midwest, state flagships rule. High achievers generally have their state flagship among their top choices. Michigan, UIUC, Wisconsin, OSU, and UMN are all top choices for high achieving students in those states, and few students from the top 10% of their class feel that they have “settled” if they are going to attend Illinois or Wisconsin (compared to similar students attending Rutgers or SUNY). Michigan, OSU, UIUC, Purdue, etc, are considered “top” universities in the Midwest, and there is often state pride in the state flagship. It is a different type of “elite”, but in the Midwest, these are “elite” colleges nonetheless.
In many ways, Midd is a smaller version of Dartmouth. however, LACs are different enough from large public universities, that they cannot be “Little Big Tens”. Even private Midwestern colleges differ from LACs substantially. The closest is U Chicago, and it does not have a LAC feel. Northwestern, WashU, Case Western, etc, are very different from LACs, and are more similar to large public universities.
All that means that the students from the Midwest at Midwest LACs are a different set of students than those at NE LACs. There are more students who specifically wanted a LAC, rather than an “elite” private college.
Consequently, LACs in the Midwest are less “prestigious” than they should be, if we use the parameters that are used for NE LACs. Their performance, though, is as good. That is probably why of the 44 Colleges That Change Lives, 16 are Midwestern LACs (of 54 LACs total). For comparison, there are 6 in the Northeast (70 LACs total). On the other hand, of USNews “top ranked” LACs, 26 are in the Northeast, while 8 are in the Midwest. BTW, Denison is on both those lists.
The largest group of students in Midwestern LACs, or the majority, are from the Midwest, and the cultural differences between the Midwest and the NE also are reflected in the colleges themselves.
An example is that many NE LACs are on the preppy side, or have a large number of preppy kids. No Midwestern LAC has ever been called “preppy”. Overall, “preppy” is not a midwestern thing.
Another factor is that, as a very general rule, the students attending NE LACs are wealthier, but there is a large overlap. The median income of families for Vassar students is lower than for families of Kenyon students. However, the Midwestern LACs with the wealthiest families is Kenyon, and there are at least 7 NE LACs with wealthier students, and there are around 28 NE colleges at which the median family income is higher than $150,000, while only three Midwestern LACs are in that group.
Of course all this is very general, and there are many LACs that do not fit any of the descriptions here, including denominational LACs.
All that being said, LACs are LACs, and are, in many ways, more similar to each other than they are to public universities in their area. This is strengthened by the fact that LACs prefer to hire faculty who did their undergrad at a LAC, and LAC graduates who do PhDs like teaching at LACs. However, faculty at LACs have low turnover, so faculty will rarely be teaching at their alma mater, and in many cases will be teaching in a different region entirely. This is also true for LACs administrators, like deans, provosts, etc.
PS. the differences in the colleges preferences between the NE and the Midwest have many historical reasons as well, which are a different story for a different time.
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Great post above! I think, though, that the schools OP is considering have differences in vibe, even those in the same region.
Trinity and Denison are cut more of the same “vibe” cloth as are Kenyon and Skidmore.
Denison and Kenyon are physically close to each other, but my kid (sample of one!) liked Denison quite a bit but not Kenyon.
Geography is but one consideration.
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I agree with some of that. Market forces and well, the schools’ marketing and lack thereof, have led to a number of Midwest LACs struggling financially and experiencing declining enrollment numbers….more so than their northeast counterparts, which is partly due to perceived prestige in the marketplace, partly due to general acceptance of that type and size of school as an acceptable college choice (that’s the culture piece, big 10 or big school spirit is important to many midwestern students in this age group)
It’s possible our definitions of preppy are different but IMO Denison and Lake Forest College, even Illinois Wesleyan and Carleton, still retain a not insignificant proportion of what I might call preppy students (although preppy doesn’t really seem to be a thing with this generation). I don’t see schools like Midd or Bowdoin and their ilk as preppy, at all. Maybe Trinity CT, maybe Conn college.
I just visited Beloit College and that school is just so impressive. Significant investments in a new student union and a maker/entrepreneur space downtown are top notch, and world renowned anthropology major/dept/museum. But their enrollment continues to decline.
As a college counselor in Chicagoland it is difficult to get most gets to even consider LACs, let alone attend. Many of the LACs do still have quite a few athletic teams, and therefore a relatively high proportion of athletes, which is how they are staying afloat with enrollment. I expect over the next decade we will lose quite a few Midwest LACs.
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This is very interesting and sounds accurate to me, at least as far as the Midwestern attitude is concerned. My daughter had the stats, rigor and ECs to be competitive for Ivies, but she just wasn’t interested in larger elite schools (including U Chicago and Northwestern)-- which was good, because we wouldn’t have been able to afford them without significant sacrifice. She realized at some point that she really wanted a LAC experience (she went to a small, competitive-admission experimental public school, and she wanted a similar, but more collaborative environment). She got into a very selective campus honors program at our flagship but turned it down, since we got enough merit and other aid to be able to afford most of the LACs she got into.
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Beloit was my D22’s safety school. I hadn’t been on CC long enough to realize that it didn’t actually meet the definition, but she would have been happy to attend there for sure (with the caveat she never visited in person). We loved all their virtual offerings and it sounds like a special place, but rarely mentioned here. She was accepted by December 1 with a large merit award ($36k/year). We still would have needed some need-based aid to make it work, but given it was cheaper than many of the east coast schools it seemed likely we’d get what we needed. Since D22 was accepted to her early decision school less than two weeks later we never saw the full package. But I definitely concur it’s worth a look! (Note although in Wisconsin it’s actually not that far from Chicago if I recall correctly).
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I agree with @MWolf on the role of LACs in midwest families’ college searches – we are originally from the east coast and have lived in the midwest for 25+ years. As our kids grew up in the midwest, we realized that there was very little peer or social pressure to look east for schools – the instate public flagships are excellent schools and great value. We wanted our kids to leave the state, to have a broader experience so we encouraged them to look elsewhere. One kid wanted big, and went to Wisconsin, the other kid wanted small and went to Denison. The Denison kid went through athletic recruiting at Northeast and Midwest LACs so we spent a lot of time visiting for recruiting camps, overnights etc.
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