Trombone performance with strong orchestral program

College Majors Music Major
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<p>We live in a small town in central Texas and my trombonist daughter, a senior, is interested in attending college as a music performance major. The 4 schools she is considering are UT Austin (1st choice), Rice, Vanderbilt and Texas State in San Marcos (her safety school but not where she really wants to end up, even though she likes the trombone instructors there). </p>

<p>She has played trombone and studied privately since 4th grade, and has been in her HS's symphonic band, marching band & jazz band all 4 years of school. This year she is one of two field captains in marching band, similar to assistant drum major. She has been selected for regional symphonic bands all 3 years and made ATSSB State jazz band last year, and has received high marks in her UIL solo competitions. She has been playing with a regional youth orchestra for the past two years and is trying out for their solo concerto competition this season. She attended the International Trombone Festival and the Jr. ITF this summer that was held at UT Austin's Butler School of Music, and really loved the facility and the staff that she met. I think it is probably her first choice, followed by Rice, then Vanderbilt. UT Austin has a wonderful trombone program. She had an opportunity to speak with faculty from both Rice & Vanderbilt at last year's ATSSB State concert and really liked what they had to offer as well - both seemed to be places that have strong music programs but balance that with academic opportunities. She really wants a school with a strong orchestra program. I know that Rice is extremely selective and difficult to get into, but her academics and test scores are also strong and I guess it depends upon their need for trombones as well.</p>

<p>If anyone has info on Vanderbilt's program, I'd appreciate it. She has no desire to go further than Nashville (we have friends there and she loves it) for her undergraduate degree, even though we used to live near NYC. She would love a school where she could study in London or Paris for a semester. She was quite taken with the European instructors she had master classes with at the ITF. Austin & Nashville are both attractive since they are music towns (she also plays and reads electric bass and has done that for Jazz Band and in a couple rock projects). </p>

<p>Any experience you or your child may have had applying to or attending her first 3 choices would be appreciated.</p>

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<p>Moonmaid, there’s not alot of trumpet specific info here. If you do a title search on trumpet, I think it’s seven or eight threads. Try pm’ing RunningtheBasses, whose son is currently an MM trombone candidate at Mannes. </p>

<p>Some general school info can be had within the pinned threads and featured discussions at page top.</p>

<p>Some tips to find info are here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/972955-uofm-flute-audition.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/972955-uofm-flute-audition.html&lt;/a&gt; in my post three, and expanded a bit here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Searching school name by title will bring up school specific threads.</p>

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<p>If Rice and Vandy are on her list, she might want to take a look at SMU. My daughter’s friend from Interlochen was very interested in one of the trombone teachers there. I believe she ultimately ended up at Northwestern, but SMU has a very strong program.</p>

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<p>My S is a trombone performance major at NU (freshman) this fall. PM if you have specific questions. He applied/auditioned at 7 great schools and ultimately chose NU. He selected all his schools based on the trombone teachers - they were his top reason for pursuing the schools, and when audition/application results came in he looked at the total picture and made his decision. Good luck - there are some amazing trombone professors across the country and they are nestled in all kinds of school settings.</p>

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<p>Id say give Loyola New Orleans a look (though I did just transfer out). The trombone players I knew there were quite strong and seemed to have progressed a lot since they got there. The program is small and very congenial and welcoming.</p>

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<p>Rice is an extremely competitive program. They have either three or four tenor trombonists at any given time, and typically this number is mostly grad students. I know that, as of last year, they had one undergrad trombonist, and he had an extremely strong orchestral background prior to college. That being said, however, it’s one of the best orchestral opportunities one can get in school-- the ensembles are absolutely phenomenal, and everyone wants to be there. </p>

<p>UT-Austin is a great program for trombonists, and is definitely worth the time. A friend of mine is there for his doctoral work, and has nothing but good things to say about Dr. Brickens. I’ve played with members of the trombone studio there, and they were all very impressive. </p>

<p>I’d second a look at SMU. It’s one of the top trombone schools there is, and consistently puts people in jobs right out of school, which, in the orchestral brass world, is a rarity. I’ve worked with John Kitzman, the trombone professor there, for several weeks at a summer festival, and can say that he’s one of the best teachers of any instrument I’ve encountered. </p>

<p>From there, the quality of schools you mentioned drops off pretty significantly. Strictly from a low brass standpoint, you go from schools, teachers, and studios that everyone your daughter will meet in music will know and respect, to places that people won’t know anything about, and, coming from an orchestral low brass background, that’s not a great feeling. That’s not to say that your daughter couldn’t possibly do well with very, very high degree of self-discipline and outside effort, but going to a school that really has music, and particularly for your daughter, trombone going on will make a world of difference. Schools like SMU and UT will allow your daughter to have a good perspective on what it takes to work in music, whereas the others will put her in a position of being a big fish in a small pond at best. A lot of brass players end up in this position, always standing out in their undergrad at a less-regarded school, only to get out into the larger music community and realize that expectations far exceed anything they’ve been prepared for. </p>

<p>As far as other programs worth a try in the region, University of North Texas has a great trombone program, as does Oklahoma State. For a school not as competitive but with a strong history of job placement for trombonists and a great teacher who doesn’t let his students get by without their best effort, University of Houston is worth a look as well.</p>

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<p>What about U of North Texas? – Oops - I see that tuba269 just recommended it. Guess I have nothing to add…</p>

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<p>UNT also has very low cost of attendance for in-state students, on the order of $15k per year total for tuition, room, board and books. Given the quality of the music program there it is quite a bargain.</p>

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<p>Second the value of UNT, a popular school among my son’s brass buddies…</p>

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<p>Thanks for the suggestions, and Tuba269 for all of that great specific info. I have suggested at least a visit to UNT, but I think the remote location coupled with the size of the music program there doesn’t interest her for some reason. But I will try to get her to visit, since it sounds very worth it. Same with SMU, which hasn’t really interested her much so far. </p>

<p>She is now becoming more interested in auditioning for a least a couple of music conservatories and broadening her search to the northeast. She grew up until age 15 in NY so is not scared off by it.</p>

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<p>If your daughter is interested in conservatories in the Northeast, the following have strong trombone teachers in both classical and jazz: NEC, MSM (Luis Bonilla teaches jazz trombone at both NEC and MSM), and McGill. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>I decided to start a spreadsheet for daughter to keep track of all the possibilities, as she narrows things down. Included is information about the trombone program at each school, audition dates and repertoire, performance ensembles, contact info, instructors, etc. I think ideally we’d like to narrow it down to about 5.</p>

<p>One school that has come into her radar with a very strong trombone studio and music program is Baylor. I was wondering if a student who is not actively Christian (I think she would describe herself as a humanist agnostic) would feel comfortable there. We are going to visit soon so she can see if it interests her.</p>

<p>She did well at the ATSSB Jazz Band auditions yesterday, coming in 2nd(1st has been her main rival in region during HS). She did not want to make a CD to be considered for State, as she wants to pursue All-State for Symphonic Band, and you cannot do both. She’ll be 2nd chair at the regional jazz band at the regional ATSSB concert at Texas State in San Marcos, where she performed very well last year. Yesterday afternoon, the trombone professor at Texas State (who has quietly been putting together a very strong trombone studio at Texas State the past two years, modeling it after UT’s trombone studio, where he received his doctorate) called my daughter to ask about her plans, asking her to keep the school in mind. The more I looked into the trombone studio there [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.txstatetrombones.com/]txstatetrombones.com[/url”&gt;http://www.txstatetrombones.com/]txstatetrombones.com[/url</a>], the more I have been impressed in the quality of instruction, visiting artists for master classes, opportunities for performance, etc. I think it might be a solid choice for a safety school. I know the school in general has been improving hugely since I first saw it a few years ago - building new facilities, upgrading programs, etc. </p>

<p>Last week we attended a recital by visiting artist Joseph Alessi at her first choice, UT Austin’s Butler School of Music. The trombone studio there is excellent but selective - they accept about 3-4 trombonists a year. Alessi was in residence last week, and is doing a concert with their wind ensemble next weekend. </p>

<p>I think she will not apply to Rice - their emphasis seems to be on graduate programs and I think she might not flourish there as an undergrad. </p>

<p>Would love to find out more about Northwestern - I know they are one of the top music programs in the country, but how many trombones do they admit a year? We have no contacts or friends/family at all in Chicago area, so it’s a big mystery.</p>

<p>Looking into UNT, I have some reservations. Her current teacher offered that several of his previous students who went there felt sort of lost in the shuffle of a very large trombone department. From looking at their department web pages, it seems there is a large chance of being stuck in the 2nd tier of instruction with graduate students, and not getting out of that. </p>

<p>She still wants to audition for Juilliard, even tho the chances there are so small. And she is intrigued with MSM as well. </p>

<p>What’s hard for me as a parent - and I have heard other parents mention this as well - is that I find it really hard to judge her chances. I know she auditions really well, and plays well under pressure, always cool as a cucumber, and just loves it. She’s been playing since about 4th grade, but really has only become pretty serious in the past two-three years. She hasn’t had the kind of preparation that some kids auditioning for music schools have - no fancy summer programs or solo competitions - but she has had wonderful teachers, and a lot of playing time with marching band, symphonic band, jazz band, youth symphony and interscholastic competition and regional and state bands. Her first teacher is trombone section leader in the West Point band, and her current teacher is a retired band director and Austin symphony trombonist. They both were wonderful for her. I have let her come to the decision to step up her game herself. I know from my own experiences with music - classical guitar, music comp major, singer-songwriter - that if the drive isn’t intrinsic, you’ll be miserable. I’ve known kids like that in my life.</p>

<p>I don’t want her to get burned out racing around the country for auditions, and it is difficult for us to afford air trips, so choosing carefully is important. I know that for this field, undergraduate studies are just the start. From what I have seen so far, it seems that a chance for the best instruction possible and good ensemble opportunities are extremely important. Of course, there are the intangibles - a place that suits her and where she will be comfortable for 4 years. </p>

<p>It’s all a lot to decide in the coming few months, but I welcome any more input or insight. And thanks to those of you who already PM’d me with very helpful advice.</p>

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<p>Northwestern is one of the great trombone programs. Students in the studio can sign up for lessons each week with Michael Mulcahy (2nd trombone in the Chicago Symphony, which I hear is not a terrible little band), Randy Hawes (Bass trombone with the Detroit Symphony, and considered to be some to be the best living bass trombonist–he was the other finalist when Charlie Vernon won the spot in CSO), and Peter Ellefson (who also teaches a studio at Indiana University, and who frequently subs for the principal trombone position in CSO and NYPO, among others). I’ve attended masterclasses by all three of these musicians, and I couldn’t think of a single negative comment to say about any of them. Prof. Ellefson is a fantastic musician and a devoted teacher. Randy Hawes plays with more musicality than any bass trombonist I’ve ever heard, and is also great from a teaching standpoint. Michael Mulcahy is not only in one of the best orchestral chairs out there for a trombonist, but his teaching style is totally unique. He really approaches trombone from the standpoint that the music is the end goal, and that all the technical stuff and accuracy is only a means to that end. Lots of teachers profess that, of course, but he does it in such a way that seems to get the best results without the ego that tends to creep into the teaching of many high-level symphony players.</p>

<p>The studio at NU is very competitive. It’s not necessarily the same as for Juilliard, but, anecdotally, it seems that the NU spots are always highly in contention precisely BECAUSE it’s not Juilliard: people know it’s a good school, but they think they have a chance. That being said, it’s a bigger studio, and so more people necessarily are admitted. I know some normal humans who have gotten in, and one definitely doesn’t have to be a prodigy. NU doesn’t offer merit aid for undergrads (or, at least, wasn’t as of a couple years ago), but the need-based aid is very competitive. I’m not sure how many trombones get in a year, but it’s more than one.</p>

<p>The nice thing about the NU studio is that, not only are all of the brass studios very strong (and you’d be surprised at the number of top music schools at which this is not the case), but the whole Chicago orchestral brass scene seems to be like a family. People from NU, Roosevelt and DePaul all travel around the city taking lessons with the big brass teachers, playing gigs together and auditioning regional orchestras and programs like the Civic Orchestra of Chicago. Everyone I know from that brass community seems to love it there. I don’t know anyone who had a bad experience. Speaking of which, DePaul is a great program as well, and would definitely be worth a look. I have a few friends who have been there, and everyone raves about it. It seems like it’s competitive for admission but not quite in the same way Northwestern seems to be. Oh, and you get to see the symphony all the time. Usually with comp tickets, as a student. So there’s that (that goes for all three schools).</p>

<p>I know a couple of students at Baylor (one trombonist and a few tuba players) and none of them are religious, and they didn’t mention any issue in that respect. I have to admit that I didn’t even know until recently that it was a religious school, but considering that it never came up in conversation with those people, I assume it isn’t a factor that looms over the school of music. It seems like the program there is really on its way up, too.</p>

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<p>DePaul does look like a very strong trombone program, and may definitely be worth applying to, especially if she does apply to Northwestern. Chicago sounds like a great city for brass!</p>

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<p>Baylor does have some very strong brass students and excellent teachers. While the school is officially Baptist, most students are not Baptist and there are many non-Christian students. I think that a larger problem for some people is that Baylor is in Texas and has many middle class Texan students. </p>

<p>Baylor does have excellent merit aid both academically (about $15 000 per year guaranteed for certain SAT/ACT scores) and musically (up to at least $15 000 depending on demonstrated talent). So students can certainly get tuition and sometimes more just out of the merit aid. The university is large, of course, but the school of music is not huge: yet it is big enough to afford plenty of opportunities. If your child clicks with a teacher there, then it could be an excellent school. It is not on the radar the way NW, SMU, Rice, and Juilliard are.</p>

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<p>I am sad to report that David Waters, professor of trombone at Rice since 1976, passed away last week. The Shepherd School Symphony’s opening night performance of Brahms 1 was dedicated to him; a more suitable and moving tribute I can hardly imagine, especially as it was played with great soul, insight, unanimity, and precision.
Allen Barnhill, principal trombone of the Houston Symphony, has taken over Mr. Waters’s teaching responsibilities.</p>

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<p>Eastman in Rochester is another very strong trombone school to look at on top of NU, Indiana, Julliard, Manhattan School of Music and the New England Conservatory. If you look at the trombone forum there is a list of where professional orchestral trombonists studied and that group is at the top along with Curtis of course. However, there are plenty of fine teachers at other schools who teach students well so as always fit between the student and teacher counts the most along with the school itself. Good luck…</p>