Try Harder!

Sophia applied to 11 colleges, but no safeties or matches. Berkeley and UCLA were the lowest ranked colleges on her list. She could have been shut out.

Alvan applied to 24 colleges which is a massive amount of work. I don’t remember all of them, but thought it was overly top heavy as well, but at least he had UCSD on there.

The counselor did say she doesn’t like students only applying to top schools and potentially getting shutout. I guess she didn’t listen.

Alvan applied to Fordham which he was probably accepted to.

I don’t understand why the parents and the kids feel disappointed when they all have good options and will get to attend college. It was sad seeing the kids say they didn’t enjoy HS because of college acceptances.

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This type of sentiment is not too unusual on these forums. But the work is not wasted if the student goes to UCSC (or Rutgers or other “lowly” college compared to HYPSM), since doing well in high school helps one do well in college.

Have to agree here that she did quite a good job at playing both of those stereotypes and more.

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Seems like you really mean “easily comparable widely accessible measures” when you write “merit” above.

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Right on cue, this post shows up:

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Great interview with the director Stress Among High School High-Achievers: Filmmaker Debbie Lum on "Try Harder!"

A follow up article.

A two year update on Lowell High School from 'Try Harder!' | Blog

Just an observation. If there is concern about Asian stereotypes, does it make sense to continue using terms like “Tiger Mom” and complying with the trope of “Try Harder” being an “Asian culture” thing?

After all, Asian Americans do not have the market cornered on over-the-top mothers or parents who tell their kids to “Try Harder” even when it’s clear the kid is killing themselves to do well.

As an Hispanic person, I understand that we associate things with cultural heritage and there is a feeling that when we say these things or acknowledge a cultural stereotype that we know is out there it’s somehow benign. But if the stereotype is pernicious in nature and leads to negative generalizations, then does it makes sense to “clean it up” and stop playing a part in the problem?

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There was a lot to be disgusted about in the movie, but holistic admissions? How about the slavish, fanatical devotion to the unrealistic dogma that kids must attend one of only a handful of “elite” colleges? How about the parents and kids who believe that they should sacrifice almost every aspect of their current existence in the service of attaining some distant goal that they have very little chance of attaining? How about the crushing pressure these kids are under to not disappoint their parents, families, friends, and themselves? How about the inaccurate and overly-simplistic explanations of admissions practices that accomplish little else but stoking racial animus?

For that matter, how about the oft repeated notion that college admissions ought not be based on the educational goals of the colleges, but rather should be a competition meant solely to reward past accomplishment as measured by an idyllic (and often narrow) "pure merit” standard? Isn’t it precisely the belief that “merit” must prevail which drives a lot of the pressures and unrealistic expectations in the first place? Through societal, educational, and familial pressures, these kids buy into the erroneous belief that acceptance to Stanford (the key to success and happiness) is within their control if only they would study more, push themselves further, and "try harder” than they are already currently trying.

Assume admissions was based on supposed “pure merit” as based on measurable, standardized test scores and other measurable academic accompishment, and (as you’ve often suggested) the tests were made much harder so that incredibly fine distinctions could be made between the top few percentage of students. What do you think would happen with regard to kids like those in this movie? It seems to me that it would further increase competition and further motivate these families to redouble their efforts at “winning” this academic contest, regardless of the personal and emotional toll on the kids. They’d devote themselves to academics even earlier and push themselves even harder. And anything that didn’t count as “merit” would be discarded and ignored.

And the end result? Most of these kids would still get rejected to Stanford, they would still be crushed, their parents still disappointed, and they would still would have devoted their childhood’s to a pipe dream. And they’d have even less experience with anything in life that didn’t serve the “merit” standard.

ETA: this is not supposed to be in response to @cquin85.

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Note that of the two “tiger parents” depicted in the movie, only one was Asian (though the Asian one seemingly did her best to go over-the-top on being stereotypical).

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This right here. It astonishes me that people can’t see past their noses on this point. As if measuring merit solely on GPA and a score on a given test cooked up by a group of people is somehow wired into the cosmos as a Platonic form of truth.

And, before anyone says it, there are no sour grapes here. My kids played that game with a fair degree of success.

I’ll add that I don’t know a single person who takes on this issue whose kids weren’t good test takers. In my experience at least, it is the parents of good test takers who carry this banner most fervently. I find in that crowd quite often a sense of entitlement … once their kid hits that 98th or better percentile on the SAT or ACT, expectations start to expand mightily. I have yet to meet a parent whose kids are mediocre or worse test takers who hang paper on holistic admissions.

The other interesting thing I’ve found is that almost all of the test prep people we know, and we curiously know a lot of them somehow, view the tests skeptically.

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To be clear, I didn’t see the movie.

But I think it’s fair to say that “Tiger Mom” originates as a stereotype for over-the-top Asian mothers. A Caucasian friend who is married to an Asian woman uses that term himself in reference to his wife all the time. I cringe whenever he says it.

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Probably amplified by this book from 2011:
https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Hymn-Tiger-Mother-Chua/dp/0143120581
and this excerpt that was first published in The Wall Street Journal:
http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/hwaters-/psy327/articles/Chinese%20mothers.pdf

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Not surprising… test prep instructors’ profession inherently rejects the idea that the tests are accurate proxies for natural ability and/or achievement in what is being tested for, and the corollary that test prep does not significant change the person’s test results, since their profession’s purpose is to help people gain a test-specific advantage, even if it what is learned in test prep may not be applicable outside of the test (including the ability and/or achievement that the test attempts to proxy).

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That’s all true I’m sure, though most we encountered were pretty transparent about how much a class and study hours could improve scores.

When I think back to the conversations, there was often a less self-serving view (like those you articulate) expressed that they had many students who didn’t test particularly well who went on to do very well in college.

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Most of the students would be a year out of college already. I wonder what they are all doing.

The kid who went to Emory is a teacher

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I learned Alvan and Rachel are applying to med school

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Litigators always say if the facts are on our side, pound the facts. If the law is on your side, pound the law. If neither is on your side, pound the table. :wink:

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We knew more than that about her.

She was an editor of the school newspaper, captain of the tennis team (which is the stereotypical sport for Asian girls, though in recent years fencing has gained), and co-president or some such title for a Girls Code type club.

But first and foremost, we know she applied to Stanford, the 8 Ivies, Berkeley and UCLA. That’s it. That is and of itself fits the stereotype the documentary was portraying.

I hope this link will work. If not, try the Lowell High FB page. Yes, her parents definitely were Tiger Parents.

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