Try me! Where would I fit in?

College Search & Selection
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<p>
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Major: engineering, currently I'm looking at biomed, but anything really, except civil; maybe a minor in business & participation in music ensembles/orchestras/etc.
Environment: not too secluded, contact with civilization outside campus is good

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</p>

<p>Well, it's pretty obvious you should look at schools with reputable BME programs (JHU, Duke, UCSD...etc). Northwestern is my alma mater and so I can't help to suggest that to you when it seems to be a good fit [top-15 engineering school; top-10 in BME, IE (popular among those who are technical but also interested in business-related fields, and econ; undergrad certificate programs in business and co-op for engineering majors; reputable music school (there's opportunity to join their ensemles/ochestras as a non-music major)]. </p>

<p>I'd like to provide what I think as negative on LACs for engineering; the "engineering" major is a "general" one (in which you take a little bit of everything (sampling) across many engineering disciplines and you end up having a hard time to define yourself; how are you going to go about job searching when many of them say you must have a BS in _______ engineering (some even say specifically ABET accredited)?). It's something you should research more carefully unless you don't mind going to grad school for specialization.</p>

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<p>In addition to the other schools mentioned, you might want to look at Olin (head over to the indiv. school threads or google to find out more). You sound like it might be a good fit for you.</p>

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<p>
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I'd like to provide what I think as negative on LACs for engineering; the "engineering" major is a "general" one (in which you take a little bit of everything (sampling) across many engineering disciplines

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<p>This certainly true. The whole point of a liberal arts curriculum is that is is NOT vocational training, but rather a broad based survey with a focus on the learning process, communication, etc.</p>

<p>I would say that the graduates of Swat's engineering program tend to fall into two categories: they either go on graduate school for advanced degrees in a specialized field of engineering or they end up in an entrepreneurial career -- tech start-ups, software companies, Wall Street IT systems, etc.</p>

<p>Over the long run, the general background and education in problem solving is probably very advantageous, given that engineering challenges and jobs change so dramatically over a career. However, I agree that, if you are looking for 4 years of vocational training leading immediately into the entry-level engineering workplace, the more specialized B.E. degrees may serve better.</p>

<p>Just depends how you view the role of a four-year undergrad education. The big hesitation I have with the dedicated tech schools is what happens if an 18 year gets a semester into the deal and finds out he or she despises engineering? Part of college is sampling different things to make informed choices. I would be a little concerned about a school that doesn't offer much in the way of sampling or choices should the student opt to veer in a different direction.</p>

<p>I actually think there is much too much focus on "how's this department?" and declaring majors by 17 year old high school students. How can anyone really know, based merely on high school, what they want to do for the rest of their lives?</p>

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<p>I think you would fit in excellently at Duke, with a major in biomedical engineering and a certificate in management studies.</p>

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<p>You strike me as the Rochester type.</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
I think you would particularly enjoy Harvard.

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<p>slipper1234: You make it seem like she will get into Harvard. Although she's an excellent student academically, nothing jumps out at me in the application that would guarantee above a 50/50 chance of acceptance. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.</p>

<p>I hope I did not sound too negative in this post. Other than Harvard, I think you have an excellent shot at any school, especially those listed. Good luck! :)</p>

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<p>I would also caution that just throwing names in the ring isn't really a productive way to go about choosing a college!</p>

<p>It's really better for the student to start narrowing down some big picture items like:</p>

<p>East/West/South/North
Big/Medium/Small
Urban/Suburban/Rural
Private/Public
Financial Aid requirements
Diversity important or not?
Big Boozer school/not so much
Frats or not
Coed or all female
Preppie school?/Brainiac school?/Treehugger school?/Jock school?</p>

28

<p>Your interests seem to go across the spectrum, so you should look for a school that is strong in the humanities, engineering, and the sciences.</p>

<p>If you go to an LAC you'll be killing your chances at a career in Engineering. Smaller LAC type schools like Brown and aren't strong in those depts either. You say you don't want to be isolated from civilization? If you NEED a city, then you won't like Cornell although I don't think you'd notice the lack of a metropolitan backdrop.</p>

<p>I personally think Caltech, Stanford, and Northwestern would suit you well. They pretty much embody everything you want both academically and otherwise. And considering your qualifications, you have a good shot at those schools.</p>

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<p>Shizz:</p>

<p>You've got some misinformation in there. Some of the smaller schools produce very successful engineers. The National Science Foundation tracks the undergrad college or university for successful PhDs completions, broken down by field. Over a recent five year period in their ongoing survey, Swarthmore produced a higher rate of Engineering PhDs (15.6 per 1000 undergrads) than Stanford (13.2 per 1000 undergrads). Even more amazing, Swarthmore tied Georgia Tech in the number of future Engineering PhDs per 1000 undergrads.</p>

<p>If you expand the fields to include all science and engineering PhDs (including social science fields), it's not even close. Swarthmore produced 168 per 1000 undergrads versus 74 for Stanford.</p>

<p>I think that, in most cases, a student who is absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt sure at age 17 that they want to study science and engineering and nothing but science and engineering would probably be best served by a specialized engineering undergrad program. But, to say that a broadbased education at a liberal arts college "kills your chances" at a career in engineering is just patently false. </p>

<p>I don't think it killed the career of David Baltimore, a chemistry major at Swarthmore who later won the Nobel Prize for his work in microbiology and has been President of Caltech for the last 8 years.</p>

<p>I also would question your assertion that CalTech is "strong in the humanities". It is certainly one of, if not the top, tech schools in the country. However, the breadth and depth of its "Humanities" and "Social Science" departments are fairly limited. I think it's fair to say that you would probably not be hanging out at dinner with a lot of humanities majors at CalTech (or MIT or Harvey Mudd).</p>

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<p>Interesteddad, I cannot completely disagree with Shizz. The opportunities and resources availlable Engineering undergrads at schools like MIT, Cal, Stanford, Georgia Tech, Cornell etc... are far greater than they are to Engineering undergrads at schools like Swarthmore or Dartmouth or Brown. The notable exceptions are Harvey Mudd and Rose Hulman. That's not to say that one cannot get a great Engineering education and find great employment opportunities or further studies opportunities at LAC-style Engineering schools...but Engineering the resources and opportunities just aren't as good.</p>

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<p>The top LAC in the country produces some engineers, but to get the proper training they still need to pursue graduate study. You take an engineer from Swarthmore and place him next to an engineer from a middle of the road engineering school like Northeastern and the guy from Northeastern will get the job. </p>

<p>Career and employment services, research opportunities, and co-ops are simply paralleled for an engineering student at an LAC. I have a feeling that Boeing doesn't exactly send many representatives to career fairs at a school like Bates.</p>

<p>The number of Engineering PhDs you cite is irrelevant. A very high number of engineers either go straight into industry or get an MBA or an M.Eng (a terminal degree that prepares you for industry). The fact that Swarthmore sends a relatively high number of engineers through doctoral programs is indicative of the amount of further schooling you need just to compete for jobs with your fellow engineers from notable programs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think that, in most cases, a student who is absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt sure at age 17 that they want to study science and engineering and nothing but science and engineering would probably be best served by a specialized engineering undergrad program.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What if someone wants to keep all their options open? National research U's are also great at social sciences. If someone is seriously even considering going into engineering, I don't understand why he or she would consider an LAC. They'll be shooting themselves in the foot if they go to one. Their liberal arts education might be all hunky dory and useful when they have to write up a technical paper, but they'll regret it when they go through another 3 years of schooling just to catch up with their peers on the job market.</p>

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<p>Rice might fit you well - check it out, and PM me if you have questions!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The fact that Swarthmore sends a relatively high number of engineers through doctoral programs is indicative of the amount of further schooling you need just to compete for jobs with your fellow engineers from notable programs.

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</p>

<p>That explanation must apply to CalTech and MIT, too. They send an even higher proportion on to Engineering PhDs.</p>

<p>I agree that, if the goal of undergrad study is terminal vocational trainging in Engineering, i.e. a B.E. degree, then schools that don't offer that degree are out of the equation. So, I'm not disagreeing with Shizz either!</p>

<p>If the goal is a Masters or PhD in Engineering, then there are more options to consider, although still the vast majority of schools are eliminated because they don't even offer engineering.</p>

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<p>And if you don't know which one to pursue, it's better to go with a school that encompasses it all. I started out my freshman year much as the OP did - I had no idea if i wanted to do business, poli sci, engineering, or science. I chose a large school that had strong programs in all of those. I ended up settling with something I enjoy but I wouldn't have had the opportunity to properly explore my options if I didn't go to a school that was strong in all of those programs.</p>

<p>I don't mean to knock on LACs. Many of them are great schools. They provide top-notch educations - in the liberal arts. Hence, the name.</p>

35

<p>
[quote]
Many of them are great schools. They provide top-notch educations - in the liberal arts. Hence, the name.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Of course, the name means a broad-based education in math, hard science, social science, and humanities. I believe the concept dates back to the Greeks, where only the ruling class (the "free" citizens) received this kind of education as opposed to the worker class that received vocational training. </p>

<p>A lot of high school students don't understand that Harvard, Yale, Stanford and most national universities teach exactly the same undergrad "liberal arts" curriculum as the liberal arts colleges (unless you are enrolled in one of the separate vocational/professional schools like Engineering or Wharton Business at Penn).</p>

<p>The term liberal arts has nothing to do with "arts" or "artsy" or "non-science/math".</p>

<p>As you have pointed out, Engineering is usually a separate track of study. Some schools (large and small) offer ABET accredited B.S. degrees in specific fields of engineering. Others (like Harvard, Dartmouth, and Swarthmore) offer an ABET accredited BS degree in general Engineering. The Swat BS Engineering degree requires 8 semesters of math and science plus a minimum of 6 semesters of core Engineering courses (inc. a semester long senior design project) and 6 advanced engineering electives grouped in one of the traditional tracks for electrical, civil, mechanical, or computer engineering. The Honors degree requires examination by three outside Engineering experts, each of whom prepares a three-hour written exam plus an oral exam in a specific field of engineering study. The big difference is that the schools offering a general Engineering BS degree require all of their engineering students to take basic survey courses in all of the major engineering disciplines (mech, elec, chem, and comp.) before specializing in the advanced courses. Looking at Ga Tech's undergrad program, the specialization starts immediately -- mech eng. students don't study elec. engineering at all, etc.</p>

<p>In most cases, I think a high school student who has already locked onto Engineering as a career path would probably look mostly at the universities with dedicated engineering programs offering the specialized degrees, especially if they plan to stop their education at the completion of the undergrad engineering degree.</p>

<p>However, depending on how they view their career path, the schools like Harvard, Dartmouth, and Swarthmore could be viable options. For example, the most frequent grad schools where Swat Engineering majors have studied in the last ten years in order are MIT, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, and Berkeley. I would guess that Dartmouth and Harvard undergrads with BS degrees in general engineering do similarly well.</p>

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<p>Interesting... after thinking about those insights/comments, I think I'm going to mainly look at big universities, for, as some of you mentioned, their varieties & massive opportunities. Especially since I don't like the limits (budget-wise & size-wise) that my school puts on me...</p>

<p>Here's another question: I've heard that different schools have different focuses--WPI would have a more hands-on approach to their curriculum while an identical program at MIT would be more theoretical (yes?)--and different ways of presenting the material. Does this really make a difference in grad school? At a job? In life? My math teacher insists that it does, and that WPI prepares me better--for what? I'd like your views.</p>

<p>So far, I'm only pretty sure that I'm not going to be a historian or a journalist, because the humanities don't "flow" with me as math & science does. I'm also pretty sure I'm not going to be in research either, after the frustration of watching four enzymes consecutively failing to pass the tests last summer. But then, that might just because I wasn't knowledgable enough to be involved in the theory of the research, just the operation of it. And FIRST Robotics is so much fun :D</p>

<p>[edit] just read the above post. Swarthmore seems like an exception, I'll look into it more before I rule it out, too. Thanks =]</p>

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<p>Jaug1,
How do you know that Columbia accepted music ED applicants?</p>

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<p>I personally feel that Swarthmore's engineering is great, while especially for those who might seek a future MBA. </p>

<p>As for the location, Swat's probably a perfect match to you, Yrael. It's in a very nice semi-secluded suburban town. The campus is a beautiful national arboretum while downtown Philadelphia is only 20 minutes away by train. </p>

<p>I think both big U and LAC like Swarthmore will work for you in terms of the actual engineering part. It might eventually boil down to your personal comfort level- whether you like a small school or a big school.</p>

39

<p>Just remembered something: Everyone knows about the M & T program at UPenn right? The one that integrates engineering and business. How do you think I'd do in that? How "good" of an engineering background am I going to get? It's so awesome, yet terribly selective...</p>

40

<p>From your bio and your interests, it sounds like you would be a good fit at Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering, the new engineering school in Needham, Massachusetts. This is a highly, highly selective school that is looking to train engineers in a liberal, holistic manner. For a potential engineering student who has a number of interests, it seems like the perfect place.</p>

<p>At this point, the school is not very well known, even among the school savvy CC posters. From what I have read, students are turning down places like MIT and Cal Tech to go here. So, my guess is that their reputation will quickly rise in the coming years. Their website is <a href="http://www.olin.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.olin.edu&lt;/a> </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>