Trying for some Ivies

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hi, CollegeConfidential. I’m a male HS junior. I’d love to hear your feedback about my aspirations, if you have the time. I’m open to lots of advice, O critical stranger, but please be nice to this fragile soul.

These are the places I’m most interested in (see if you can spot the fallback school):
• Brown
• CMU
• Cornell
• Dartmouth
• Northeastern University
• Tufts
• University of Pennsylvania

And here’s a little about me:
° 2130 SAT (750 CR, 740 M, 640 W)
° 4.1 GPA (3.9 unweighted)
° Treasurer, NHS
° Founder, President, Mock Trial Club
° President, Media Arts Club
° Extra- extracurriculars (I heard they weren’t worth mentioning. There’s outreach groups, Habitat for Humanity, band, choir, theater, dance, etc., but no leadership roles there. )
° Great marks in the APs I’ve taken so far, AP Calculus and AP Chemistry.
° Seeking a Computer Science or Mathematics major

Here are my plans going forward:

  • Bulk up my transcript with challenging classes I like: AP Physics, AP Calculus BC, AP Computer Science, AP Statistics, AP Psychology
  • Get great SAT II scores in Math 2, Chemistry, and maybe another
  • Retake the SATs another two times to get my score up, now that the dreaded Writing section that I did so poorly on is replaced.

Again, please advise and criticize my plans and I’d love to hear my chances for some of these schools. Thanks a lot for reading!

(I’ve never done a “chance me” before, so I’m a bit nervous, but thanks again for giving me a few minutes. Sorry if I’m doing this wrong.)

2

Great job so far! But, please take this advice as kind.

I’ll chance you the same as everyone else, all of those schools are reaches. Some more than others but all reaches. I guess you mean Tufts but you don’t have a safety in that list. A safety must be affordable and a sure thing. A match should have a 50% admission rate. Tufts was 15% for 2015/2016. I’m sure Northeastern and CMU were similar.

Now your stats are in range to apply but please understand those schools are long shots. Get ACT/SAT up a little helps. You want to be at 75 percentile for the school. Google Common Data Set for each school. Learn to write a good essay. Hope for the best and find a really solid safety where you would be happy (and remember must be affordable.)

3

Thanks Sportsman88. I originally intended for Northeastern to be the safety school, given that my SATs are 200 something ahead of the average. Never thought a safety school had to be low cost, but that all makes sense.

4

Your scores actually aren’t that special for northeastern. I agree with Sportsman; you have chances at all of these schools, but they’re all very competitive so you should have 1 or 2 safeties lined up. Good luck next year man.

5

I agree that your list of schools consists only of highly competitive schools especially for computer science. There are some great schools out there that are not highly competitive but that are still great schools. I’d add a couple.

6

Northeastern’s average SAT was exactly yours - I don’t know where you’re getting that it’s 200 ahead of the 50% mark. I think Northeastern is a high match to a very low reach. Especially for CS without any extracurriculars in the subject.

You’ve got a shot at all of these, but they are all reaches - CMU for CS is by far your highest, even over the ivies given their admit rate and your application.

For good match and safety schools for CS in the northeast, check out RPI, RIT, WPI, U of Rochester, U of Michigan, UMass Amherst.

7

I looked it up for you. Northeastern’s 25/75 are as follows: CR 660/740 M: 680/770 W: 640/730.

28% admission rate so better than Tufts but not good enough to be a safety. If you scored 75 percentile on all that’s a 2240 so you are close. You are above or CR, just below on Math and need improvement on writing. Who knows where the new SAT scores will be.

For reference, a 34 was 75 percentile on ACT.

Common Data Sets have all kinds of great info and are easy to find. The above is 2015/2016 data.

8

Thanks to all for your responses.

I heard that CC was critical, but I didn’t really expect this. I thought, between these schools, I’d have chances to get into one of them. But according to this, seems I shouldn’t expect to get into any.

I’ll be selecting some backup schools now.

9

I don’t think people mean to be critical but they want you to be realistic so that you are not one of those people who start a post saying “I’ve got great credentials but didn’t get into any schools I can afford to attend”.

People look at the distribution of accepted students’ scores and figure that if they are near the top of the 25%-75% range they will probably be accepted. But that is a false conclusion. What the Common Data Set does not show you is what the rejected sample looks like. It is easy enough to see how you compare to those that are accepted but that is only part of the story, in terms of seeing the data that will inform you of your chances. Only a few schools show you that data but it is worth reviewing the data for schools that do.

Brown provides that information (https://www.brown.edu/admission/undergraduate/explore/admission-facts). For ACT scores, less than 24% of the students with ACT scores of 36 were accepted. Less than 13% of those with 33-35 were accepted. In terms of SATs, of those with 900s in Critical Reading, less than 23% were accepted and acceptance rates were even lower for those with 800s in Math and Writing. Less than 20% of valedictorians who applied were accepted. That means that 80% of valedictorians were rejected in favor of students with lower class ranks.

Students often assume that the rejected pool is filled with applicants with low grades and scores. That is not the case. High stats students constituted the lions share of the applicant pool. As a result, many more students were rejected with SAT scores above 700 than with scores below 600. It is hard to imagine how many students have GPAs in the A range and scores all above 700. There is a ceiling effect for grades and scores. Even if they once did, they don’t distinguish the good from the great students and they don’t distinguish who is accepted from who is rejected.

You don’t have it on your list but MIT is another school that has a similar chart. The rates are probably similar to those you are interested in: http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats . I am including it here because seeing as many of these charts as possible is a good reality check.

10

From what I’ve gathered over the past years, this ceiling effect you mention means that ECs, essays, and recommendations make the difference.

I’d like it a lot if I could get more advice on those things.

11

Retake the sat and take sat IIs. Apply and wish for the best but never forget about SAFETY schools.
Good Luck

12

The 7 schools you list are superior, but as others have said, they are all reaches. Possibly NEU is a high target. The schools @PengPhils listed are excellent target schools for you. If you are able to pull up your scores, you might get into a reach, but these days it is impossible to count on. However with a little bump on your SAT, you probably have a good shot at RPI, WPI, UR which are really excellent schools. It is better to readjust your sights now and maybe be happily surprised. Good luck.

13

Thanks for the responses so far. As long as this thread doesn’t get knocked down too far, I have a few other schools I’m interested in, that aren’t so superior:

UMass Amherst
Drexel (for engineering)
Trinity College Dublin

Thanks for that critical feedback so far.

14

Amherst is a great CS safety for you I think. Drexel is a good one as well. I don’t know Trinity much, but I know it’s a good school overall.

I don’t think you’re incredibly misguided, as others have pointed out. You really do have a shot with these - it’s just not something to bank everything on.

Are you adverse to technical schools in particular? I think the WPI/RPI/RIT suite would be better than Drexel / Trinity but still be matches and maybe even a high safety.

What else are you looking for in a college beyond what I assume is the northeast region and a good CS program? I think CC would be really helpful in finding some middle ground between Drexel and an ivy. When you have a college list, the most populous section should be matches IMO - right now you have safety and reach covered, but could stand to add some more matches. You don’t need to take such a far step down, just a small one.

15

I think UMass Amherst and Drexel are high quality schools that should be ‘safer’ for you (they do have somewhat higher student population, of course.) I don’t know anything about Trinity Dublin, but international study could be really fun. If you consider NEU, RPI, UR, WPI and maybe one other in your ‘target’ range, then I think you have a very well balanced list for someone interested in CS/Math. My son (HS senior, somewhat similar stats to you) applied to 5 reaches, 5 target, and 3 safety. I think that was a good balance and probably could have been pared down a little. Interestingly, he applied to 7 of the same schools discussed in this thread so far. He was accepted to one reach (CMU-will attend), and 4 of his targets (NEU,UR, RPI, WPI). I would expect you to do equivalently or slightly better if you can get a little higher test scores. Also work on your essay this summer and make it compelling! Good luck. It all works out in the end.

16

Thanks for all the replies so far.


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I don’t think you’re incredibly misguided, as others have pointed out. You really do have a shot with these - it’s just not something to bank everything on.

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Thanks for saying so. I’ll be sure to get a real safety school in.


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What else are you looking for in a college beyond what I assume is the northeast region and a good CS program?

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Don’t hate me for saying this, but I am really into the city atmosphere. It’s very invigorating for me. I really see myself in a big or medium sized city, or very close to one.


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He was accepted to one reach (CMU-will attend), and 4 of his targets (NEU,UR, RPI, WPI). I would expect you to do equivalently or slightly better if you can get a little higher test scores.

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Holy moly. Congratulations on him getting into CM. Can you tell me a little more about how I compare, scorewise and otherwise?

17

I’ll stick up for Trinity College Dublin, as I know some of the CompSci folks there. OP, I would expect you to be able to get in to TCD, BUT 3 things you should know:

  1. You will be paying international fees and you will not get any scholarships / funding beyond FAFSA. Yes, I know that they say that they have scholarships on the website, but in real life they are very few and they go to real superstars- and not usually STEM subjects, though they get offended if you point that out.
  2. The curriculum is very, very structured. You will not have any subject choices, except 1 term in 1st year when you get to choose a "broad curriculum" module from a list of about 30 specific classes in other departments, and final year, when you get to choose 4 comp sci electives (from a list of about 12).
  3. irish (and UK) schools expect students to be much more independent than US schools. There is little hand holding from admin and professors do not typically engage much with 1st / 2nd years ( which are confusingly called Junior Freshmen and Senior Freshmen; 3rd & 4th years are Junior and Senior Sophisters).

I love TCD- did post-grad & taught there, and worked on projects with the CompSci team (and btw have you seen the companies they partner with?!)- so I am not trying to dissuade you at all. Like the above posters, the idea isn’t to dissuade you or be negative, but rather to give you solid information so that you can make better informed decisions!

18

If you can increase your SAT by 100, your chances will be better. (I know, great obvious advice). The rest looks good for all of your schools. As others have pointed out, you do need a few more matches (like NEU) and a safety.

An actual piece of advice: go to each college’s section on CC. Look at the 2020 RD Results threads in each. This will give you a good idea of who go admitted, and show the high scorers that did not! You’ll be surprised.

"From what I’ve gathered over the past years, this ceiling effect you mention means that ECs, essays, and recommendations make the difference.

I’d like it a lot if I could get more advice on those things."

Focus on each school’s website a blogs to see what is important to them. Many will flat out say what the look for. Link those things to who you are, what you’ve done, and weave into your essays.

As for recs, ask your GC about a few teachers to see if they are good rec writers and have been reliable in the past. Pic ones you’ve clicked with.

19

Thanks very much HRSMom.

“As others have pointed out, you do need a few more matches (like NEU) and a safety.”

So, NEU IS a match?? That’s great. I’ve heard so many different opinions. Is Tufts one?

For safeties, I think I need to make a new thread to find some safety and target schools. Specifically, target schools that are in a city and have a good CS or Math program.

Thanks to you, collegemom3717, too.

“You will be paying international fees and you will not get any scholarships / funding beyond FAFSA. Yes, I know that they say that they have scholarships on the website, but in real life they are very few and they go to real superstars- and not usually STEM subjects, though they get offended if you point that out.”

Good advice, I didn’t know about the scholarship/funding situation. I like the idea of international schools, it sounds really exciting to me. What international school WOULD provide financial benefits? I heard of some good schools in Canada.

20

Being near a city isn’t a criteria to be shy about - it’s your decisions, and people choose colleges by all sorts of fit factors - being near a city is a very common one, one I had myself! I actually had a very similar list to @pickpocket 's son

I’m actually a Northeastern CS student and tbh I could rave about the program for hours - if you have any questions later in the process, feel free to PM me!

For CS, I don’t think you need to try for all these ivies - the top CS schools usually aren’t them. That said, the middle of your list is the current concern, so let’s get some good options there.

I would highly recommend adding Boston University (a match like NEU, good school, great location), U of Rochester, and RI, especially as a great safety option. RIT has a good co-op program, something I’m guessing you like with the presence of NEU / Drexel. It has a well-regarded CS program, and its admissions process should have you accepted nice and early.

Buying a few ivy tickets is okay, but you don’t need to buy half of them, particularly for the majors you want. Of the ivies, Dartmouth and Penn I think are the lesser for CS (though I’m not Ivy expert - I’ve just heard better things from Cornell / Brown.

Based on all this, here’s a possible better list:

Reaches:
Brown
CMU
Cornell
Tufts

Matches:
Northeastern
Boston U
U of Rochester

Safety:
UMass Amherst
RIT
Drexel

Uncategorized (I don’t know well enough to say):
Trinity

I think adding a few more schools to this would be the final touch - maybe one super-safety, and then two in the match/reach area. You could even stand to get rid of one of your safeties. If you don’t like BU/UR/RIT, find some replacements to fill their spots. If you really are set on one of the ivies I removed, add it back as the final touch.