Trying to convince D to attend pre-college program

<p>Last year, tried to talk D into applying to my alma mater -- no go. We went for a tour and she turned off. I accepted it. Really. Especially when I realized that she probably wouldn't get in anyway, why set her up for failure?</p>

<p>The search continued. I noticed that pre-college programs are popular now and give "an edge" to students. I never thought we could afford to send her to one until I realized that my alma mater -- which gives some of the best financial aid in the country -- had one. </p>

<p>It fit the bill:
-- some seriously wonderful financial aid
-- short duration in comparison to other programs so she could keep her job
-- 4 topics, one of which D actually liked, combines outdoorsy stuff with cooking with sustainability, all of which are to her liking</p>

<p>HOWEVER. We applied and all that is missing is her essay. Which she now doesn't want to write, as she has just announced she doesn't want to go, she'd rather work her fast food job and hang out with boyfriend all summer, two weeks are just too long to be away. Ugh.</p>

<p>Yes, I am too controlling and yes it is ultimately D's college career.</p>

<p>If she doesn't want to go, why push her.</p>

<p>It's like I am forcing her to follow in my footsteps, and I am sorry for that, but still -- it's such a great opportunity!</p>

<p>Does she understand that with four younger siblings, an EFC of $0 and her okay-but-not-great grades and test scores, a pre-college program could significantly increase her chances of getting into a "good" private school (meaning financial aid) or a "good" campus of our state school -- which we could actually afford but which is getting more and more competitive?</p>

<p>Her GPA is 89 and her SATs are 1140 if I remember correctly...not enough for merit aid and not enough to get her into a really great school with need-based aid. </p>

<p>Students reading this please forgive your parents. We want what we think is best for you and we really try so hard.</p>

<p>Parents thanks for allowing me to let off some steam. I was just so excited to be able to put this opportunity within her reach. And to think it would help her adjust to living away from home.</p>

<p>I have looked for other programs but they are either too costly or too long in duration or rather far away. By now deadlines for financial aid are probably passed. There is no guarantee she would go anyway.</p>

<p>I feel your frustration. My d was picked for a summer program at the elite private school where bill gates & Paul Allen attended.
It was no cost to our family, but it would have required that she give up her other activities for the summer, including going away to summer camp which she dearly loved.
She couldn’t see that this program would open the door for other opportunities, ( including attending the school for high school), but I decided it was more important at the time to respect her choice, than overrule her.</p>

<p>It doesn’t sound like a pre-college program that is going to do much for her admissions, honestly, based on your description. There are only a few programs that actually make a difference in admissions. And it doesn’t sound like she has ANY interest in your alma mater. Not sure if you have been on CC long enough to hear the phrase “Love the kid on the couch.” But that is really your best course right now. </p>

<p>If she isn’t interested in a summer program, you might want to insist on a SAT or ACT prep course instead.</p>

<p>“Does she understand that with four younger siblings, an EFC of $0 and her okay-but-not-great grades and test scores, a pre-college program could significantly increase her chances of getting into a “good” private school”</p>

<p>I have not heard that a 2 week summer program, especially one that includes outdoorsy stuff and cooking, gives any significant advantage in college apps. In fact, I’ve heard the opposite from attending several presentations including the Dean of Adm at a top 25 school. I’d be interested to hear others weigh in on this.</p>

<p>I will sort of disagree with some of the posters that say it does not make a difference. Going to the pre-college programs at the school she wants to attend CAN be helpful, especially if she makes contacts with some of the professors there. The other way it really helps kids is living in a dorm on a campus helps them establish their own criteria for what to look for in a college as far as living environment. Doing this multiple summers at multipe colleges really makes a difference. </p>

<p>Bribes often work at this age. I know that it is not considered the top way to convince a child to do something, but occasionally when I have found that all other methods do not work for something that i know is very important, I resort to bribes. YMMV…and it must be used judiciously.</p>

<p>Most precollege programs are cash cows for the college/university, and do not improve the potential applicant’s chance of admission at all. Perhaps the one your daughter is refusing to apply to is different.</p>

<p>However, if she’s not interested, she’s not. Do your best to get past this. Rejecting your old U doesn’t mean she is rejecting you. Do talk with her about what she wants to do with her life after high school. If she does want to go to college, help her learn more about identifying places your family can afford and where she is likely to be admitted. One place to start would be right here at CC in the Financial AidForum.</p>

<p>If a pre-college program was going to work, it would be because the kid impressed them once she got there, and they put in a good word for her. Given that, I’d be very worried about sending a kid who didn’t want to be there. I would think that if they ended up being sullen and disengaged it would hurt rather than help.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if you have a kid who is always hesitant about new things, but warms up and is charming when she arrives, I might vote differently.</p>

<p>This isn’t from experience thought, just my gut feeling.</p>

<p>This depends on the colleges you’re looking at. IME, pre-college programs do not give an edge, except when they are highly competitive for admissions and rigorous. Eg, some of the “talented youth” programs (and these usually select kids early in the game.) The exception can be STEM, where kids get some seriously relevant research and analysis experiences. Or some international relations programs that involve hands-on challenges. Just the extra academics isn’t it. Agree that the rest of the story is that these ventures are money-makers for schools that have unused space sitting available. It’s rare that a letter of rec comes through that highly impresses an adcom.</p>

<p>Thanks everybody for the input. Yes, maybe it is not as important as I think… and thanks for reminding me to ease up and respect her. </p>

<p>Though I am not above a bribe :slight_smile: However the bribes SHE proposed are:

  • an eyebrow piercing
  • a belly button piercing
  • a tattoo</p>

<p>How do you like them apples.</p>

<p>Okay so the programs are cash cows but this one has financial aid…if nothing else it’s a chance for her to live in a dorm and experience colelge life (she is a junior going into senior year). But I won’t take it so hard if she really really doesn’t want to do it. </p>

<p>Lastly, no, there is no chance that we would apply to this particular school, it really is out of reach.</p>

<p>Thanks again</p>

<p>Save your money. The program is not going to give her an edge in the application process.
What you may think is a fun opportunity/experience obviously isn’t shared by your daughter.
Let her be herself. There’s nothing wrong with letting her spend the summer earning money and enjoying time with friends.</p>

<p>I do think a few weeks on a campus could be great for a kid who is having trouble visualizing college. Not with admissions necessarily, but with helping them get ready for the transition. There are lots of programs that have financial aid. Is she unwilling to apply to any of them, or would she consider a different program?</p>

<p>If you decide to bribe, I vote belly button piercing, at least you can cover it with a shirt, and take it out when you get tired of it.</p>

<p>I agree with CuriousJane. A pre-college program might not make much difference on college admissions. But if you can get it inexpensively, it would be worthwhile getting a taste of college. That could make it easier creating “the list” of applicant schools down the road.</p>

<p>*and hang out with boyfriend all summer, *</p>

<p>That and her proposed bribes would concern me.</p>

<p>I have some input from a parent who sent their child to a pre-college camp at Emory last summer. I agree with a lot of what you are all saying…it really depends on the child and the school. All of you are right.</p>

<p>First, I was encouraging my son to attend a pre-college camp. He was not interested in a four week camp we were looking at Washington University St. Louis, Columbia and a few others. Georgetown offered some shorter camps with some nice exposure to Washington DC. Thought they were all great. He had participated in a service trip abroad the summer before.</p>

<p>Second, why did I want my son to attend a pre-college camp? I wanted him to see what it would be like living in a dorm, being in a new setting, see if he liked the college, and most importantly to determine if he really wanted to be that far away from home.</p>

<p>Why did my son decide to attend? He was not interested even after we had visited many of the colleges. I would never bribe my child, would never work for us. Finally a friend wanted to go and then he was more interested. They both looked at the programs and decided on Emory because they both liked the school, the 10 day program, and had several class options in science, liberal arts, and economics. After the two signed up, two more students decided to join them and off they went to pre college camp at Emory. His friend going with him was the key to make him change his mind. Of course our paid college counselor was horrified, thinking he now might be competing with all of these boys in the application process.</p>

<p>What happened at the pre-college camp? Certainly achieved all the objectives of learning he could live away from home, loved the school, loved the kids he met, loved living in the dorm…everything was great. Of the four boys that attended, each one had a very different approach. Never did I say anything to my son about the importance of doing well, because I did not even think about it. Never did I think my son would take the class seriously. I was just worried if he could get up by himself for class…yes a little over mothering going on over here. He got to class at 9:00 am, did all of his homework, took notes, and participated. Emory also conducted meetings almost every day about their programs. They discussed the admissions process, studying abroad, the admission essay, activities on campus, and other topics. Now what happened at night…after class. Yes they had a really good time. My son decided he could not have as good of time as the other boys, because he had a girlfriend at home. The other boys had the time of their life and did not really care about their classes. At this point I don’t think anyone of us really knew they were being evaluated. Even though my son did not party the 10 days away, it was a great experience for him academically, socially, and preparing him for college. It was worth it.</p>

<p>What happened after the class? In September, he received a transcript from the class. I was amazed what his professor wrote that he was the top of his class in participation, academics, leadership, and ability to be successful in college. I could not have asked for more. I did not realize he would receive a transcript that could be sent to colleges like his grade transcript. I do believe this was an important part of his college application, because it was an additional transcript, recommendation, and a great addition to the resume. The transcript by the college professor rated him excellent in all categories, and included a resounding recommendation.</p>

<p>What happened with admissions? My son was accepted early decision to Emory. We have since gone back to Emory and met with his professor to thank him for his evaluation and let him know that he was an important reason my son applied and decided to attend the college. It is great he already knows a professor in one of his possible majors. My son was also accepted into four other schools and submitted his Emory transcript to each one. My son received generous merit scholarships from two. I think it is great to have a fabulous recommendation from a well-respected college.</p>

<p>What happened to other boys? Two of the friends also applied to Emory and they were waitlisted. They did not receive compelling transcripts, so they did not submit them to the colleges they applied to.</p>

<p>Thus the moral of the story is…if your child does not want to attend, what will they really get out of the experience. Momcinco, if she really does not want to attend, I do not think it is worth it. I never believe in bribing my children. At some point they have to do it for themselves. Now like my son, maybe there is something that will make her change her mind and see the light. The friends that attended with my son did get some of the important elements their parents wanted them to achieve from the experience. However, because they were more social than serious in class, the pre-college program was not the ticket into the college or any other college. </p>

<p>I also had a friend send her son to another top school she hoped he might attend. He took a class for college credit (4 weeks) and he got a “C”! Obviously that was not worth it! Fortunately, the “C” college grade did not hurt him. He was accepted to Rice which is a fabulous school despite his lackluster performance at his precollege program.</p>

<p>I believe there is a lot to gain from a precollege program, but I think it is important for your child to want it also. It might be better for your daughter to stay at home and spend a lot of time doing service work she is interested in, and work on her ACT/SAT scores if she is motivated. Don’t make her do something she does not support. I think service work is another great option for kids to gain a perspective of how great their life is, learn to give back…and okay…is great for the resume. The pre college programs can be a great experience, but there are also a lot of great experiences available if your child is not interested. Good luck!</p>

<p>We gave our son, a HS sophomore, a choice. Go to running camp for a few days this summer or go to community college following graduation. Sounds harsh to some people, but it’s not. He has never really been away from home, and we feel that this will make the transition to college life a little better. (I have former students who were still homesick into their junior years of college, because they had never been away from home.)</p>

<p>My older son went away for a week following his freshman and sophomore years and a month after his junior year. He felt the experience helped him ease into college life (he even had to do his laundry a few times.)</p>

<p>No bribes. Not hers, not yours.</p>

<p>Momreads,</p>

<p>Do you think that a few days at running camp would prevent homesickness? Or that it would give you enough info to predict whether he’d be homesick? I’m not sure I understand your logic.</p>

<p>If he had refused to go, would you really have held him to that consequence 2 years later or could he have attended a later camp and “earned back” the privilege of college.</p>

<p>Collegemom: Thanks for your detailed post. I really appreciated your perspective and it makes a lot of sense.</p>

<p>The high school summers are hard to navigate. kids are usually too young for paid work until at least the summer after junior year and even then finding a job is tough. Finding a volunteer job that takes a lot of time is also hard. I have a hard time with kids hanging out at home all summer long with not much to do. My HS freshman is doing a 2 week “adventure” outdoors camp this summer but I have been thinking ahead to a more academic program next summer or the one after that might give him a taste of the science field he is interested in. Of course a lot can change between now and then.</p>

<p>mom2and you have brought up a great point which I should have also included in my long post. The most exciting thing is to have your child attend a pre-college camp that might potentially be an area of interest. I really wanted my S to attend an engineering camp to learn a little what it would be like to major in engineering. We looked at stock market camps, medical school camps, anything he might be interested in. At that point it was not about the college at all, it was about the course he was interested in taking. That is maybe where the original post’s parent was confused. That parent was starting with the college and finding the program, and we started with an interesting program, and then looked for colleges offering those programs. I do understand that the original post was looking at a program with some financial subsidies and that is why they started with that school. Thus very understandable that sometimes option are limited for a reason.</p>

<p>I also agree that I should not have been so careless to think that it is easy to get a substantive volunteer job. We looked at my S volunteering at hospitals and other areas he was interested and we never did find anything that fit him. Amazing, in this time when you would think there would be so many opportunities. Some required all three months like a job without an vacation and some just did not need volunteers. </p>

<p>As always the earlier we start these conversations with our children the better we are in finding something that will fit with their interest, schedule, and our budget…plus who knows what else.</p>

<p>Appreciate and agree with all your comments. I also agree that I am not sure what that running camp was all about. I think I understand the premise that you can’t just sit around all summer, so figure it out dude! Do something and it might be a running camp if you cannot figure it out!</p>

<p>Good luck to all the parents out there! We are trying our best to influence and steer our children in the right direction! Ultimately, I want my child to find something they are passionate about so there is commitment on their part. My passion is rarely in sync with my children’s…I guess they will not be an accounting major like me after all!</p>

<p>Ok, maybe I missed something but you want your DD to attend a summer program at your alma matter, a place she has no interest in attending and you don’t think she could get into but you still want her to go on this summer program that she has no interest in attending? Did I read that correctly?</p>