trying to decide on AP classes

Pre-College Issues High School Life
1

<p>I homeschool my son, who is in 8th grade this year. He is taking AP Psychology this year (via a virtual high school class). Since he is homeschooled, we really want to emphasize the AP classes, to verify that he has done the work and that it is at a high level. </p>

<p>I was wondering about a few things....</p>

<p>First, when in the math sequence do you take AP statistics? we do Algebra I & II, Geometry, Trig & Pre-Calc and then Calculus. Where does AP stats fit in and is it a year long course? do you take AP calculus after regular calculus, or does it replace it??</p>

<p>For science, we are considering sending our son to a junior college. It would have a teacher to answer questions and lab equipment...would it be best to take a course in the fall semester and then study the spring semester and take the AP test? or take the course in the spring semester? </p>

<p>What is the hardest science course and what is the easiest? do any of them build on each other? do you have to take a regular high school level course before taking the AP course to do well, or can you go straight to the the AP course? </p>

<p>Are the SAT II tests much easier then the AP tests? </p>

<p>We are thinking this:</p>

<p>9th grade: AP Chemistry, AP United States History, AP Human Geography</p>

<p>10th Grade: AP Biology, AP World History, AP European History, AP Art History, AP English Language</p>

<p>11th Grade: AP Government, AP Comparative Government, AP Physics (B & C), AP Calculus, AP English Literature</p>

<p>12th Grade: AP Stats, AP Economics, AP Latin, AP Chinese, AP Environmental Science</p>

<p>My son was in an accelerated program for the gifted when he went to public school and is about two year ahead in most subjects (except math...he will do geometry in 9th grade, after algebra II this year). He is a good writer, very academic but these courses will really challenge him. Also, the 12th grade year only has courses he can easily self-study, because he wants to spend the year in China as an exchange student.</p>

<p>Any comments are appreciated!!</p>

2

<p>is there even an AP Chinese? maybe it will be offered when he's a 12th grader. but that is definitely a very heavy and challenging courseload. the hardest science course from what i heard is AP Physics B & C. I was able to self study AP Chem pretty easily but it's quite a challenging course too. AP Biology is a lot of memorization, so it depends if you're son's good at that stuff. And AP Stat can be taken after Algebra II. It's not a very difficult course. In college, it would probably be a semester long course.</p>

3

<p>Statistics doesn't really have a certain place. However, you probably want to get in pre-calculus first before it. Overall, it's an easy course, but having basic math prerequisites (algebra 2 should be sufficient, but pre-calc doesn't hurt since it's basically strengthening the same concepts).</p>

<p>IMHO it woudl be best to take the course in the fall, then do a tailored study after it for the AP exam.</p>

<p>Science wise you have environmental, bio, chem, and phy. Environment and biology are the easiest given their emphasis is memorization - env. is easier of the two. Chemistry is next in line of difficulty, with a fairly even mix of memorization and actual application. Physics will probably take the crown - there is very little memorization, and mostly just application of problem solving skills. IMHO do environmental 9th - chemistry most likely isn't a good pick there unless your kid enjoys the subject. Physics B should be taken definetely after alg2/trig (concurrent precalculus will also help). You want to try to schedule Phy C AFTER Calculus (and concurrent at the very least, but after is strongly suggested). Each AP science course has no pre-requisites in terms of completing a regular course before hand (short of having necessary math knowledge).</p>

<p>Also, be aware that AP U.S. History is generally considered more difficult than World History, but that can be subjective.</p>

<p>One other adjustment you may want to do is do both AP English courses in one year - they don't vary much, and in fact doing both simultaneously should help one another. </p>

<p>Other adjustment you also may consider is moving Phy B to 10th. Physics B covers a very large amount of information (although it just scratches the surface). Physics C dwells deep within a certain more limited scope. Doing B the year before and throughly understanding it will help you have a bigger sense for C.</p>

<p>SATII's are generally easier than APs, but not always significantly. Take the SAT II physics after Physics B, not so much C. Beside that they're mostly well aligned with their AP counterparts by names.</p>

4

<p>You want to make sure you don't kill the poor kid: </p>

<p>NOTE: AP classes tend to give a lot of hw. Since your child is taking tons of AP's, you may give him less hw. DON"T DO THIS!!! Self-studying AP's is very difficult if you don't time it right. I would suggest following a pacing guide.</p>

5

<p>Wow... your son has to be really smart to take AP Chemistry in 9th grade. You need a really good teacher to grasp all the material. Even if he does complete AP chemistry in 9th grade, it's so far away from university that he will probably forget all the material by then.</p>

<p>I would suggest taking AP Biology before AP chemistry, because AP biology is pretty much all memorizing. I'd save AP chemistry for 11th grade.</p>

<p>You don't really need AP stats. He can take AP Calculus BC in grade 12, which is more important than AP Calculus AB.</p>

6

<p>In my opinion, the courseload you have set out for him is a little bit too difficult and time consuming, but then again, I do not know your son. </p>

<p>I took AP Chem as a junior and struggled through it. I believe it to be one of the hardest AP sciences. AP Bio is a lot of memorization and requires studying, but does not require as many applications as Chem. I would definitely recommend taking a regular science course before beginning AP.</p>

<p>Semester courses include Environmental Science, Statistics, Economics, and Psychology. I have taken all of these and have found them the easiest to prepare for and manage. AP Stat can be taken after Algebra 2, although it does not really matter when it is taken. It is a real life application math, that can come after Alg 1 or after AP Calc. </p>

<p>Physics C, like okrogius said, should be taken with or after Calculus. Physics and Calc seem to go hand in hand.</p>

<p>There are also skills tests, such as AP English Lang. These are the tests that you can receive high scores on the exam without taking the class, or you can study an exorbitant amount and only do fairly well.</p>

<p>The histories (I took U.S., Euro, and Art) require a good amount of work. A lot of lectures and notes. I find that histories really come alive when they are told to me, not read. But that is a matter of preference.</p>

<p>I have heard that the AP Latin (which one? Virgil?) exam is extremely difficult. My friend has taken 12 AP exams and scored 5s on all of them, except for a 3 in Virgil. It's difficult!</p>

<p>I understand that you want to show colleges that your son has taken the most advanced courseload that he could possibly take, but 19, IMHO, is way too many APs! It's important for your son to also develop a healthy social life, to spend time with friends, and to find serious interests. Courseload is only 1/5 or 1/6 of what the most competitive colleges consider. They would like someone who has had fun and enjoyed life.</p>

<p>I know someone who took 6 APs and was accepted into Harvard this year, so it's not everything. :)</p>

<p>This is just my opinion. But good luck!</p>

7

<p>It is so hard to decide what to do...so much information out there.</p>

<p>I will work through the info with my son and see what he thinks. He does have a very active social life and is active in scouts and civil air patrol. he also takes aikido four times a week and is doing alot of asian studies (his passion). </p>

<p>There will be an AP Chinese within the next 2 years (also AP Italian).</p>

<p>sounds like my schedule needs some major adjusting, so I am going to work on it. </p>

<p>Since US History is supposed to be harder, and I think there is just alot to Euro and world History...should we consider doing economics for our social studies next year??</p>

<p>It also sounds like the majority think that AP chemistry is really tough and not to be taken next year...how about Environmental science and a regular chemistry course for 9th grade?? </p>

<p>would it be recommended to take AP world history and AP Euro history the same year (i heard that they overlap quite a bit, so you could do a good job on both).</p>

<p>I will switch English Language and Literature to the same year...11th grade.</p>

<p>where would art history fit in best?? </p>

<p>He has had introductory courses in most of these subjects, so the material is not new to him...it is just at much more depth.</p>

<p>please keep giving me suggestions!!!!!</p>

8

<p>I took Lang before Lit, but I think it would be feasible to take both in the same year. The two exams are fairly similar.</p>

<p>I really enjoyed Art History, but it can be overwhelming to teach. I had a first year teacher who wanted to show us every piece of art ever made, but that's simply not possible. Also, there will be "mystery slides" on the exams, of which people are not expected to have seen before and are not usually found in text books. Art history can be taken any year, but I would recommend coupling it with Euro, as Euro will provide background information pertinent to art pieces.</p>

<p>I would also recommend having AP Enviro Sci. as a freshman year course instead of AP Chem or Bio. It is simple material and a semester course in one year. You can also have him take the regular Chem class during that time. </p>

<p>To lighten the schedule, you could drop AP Comp Gov't and probably World History and Human Geography. I thought U.S. History was a pretty important course and I absolutely loved Euro, which might appeal to your son also.</p>

<p>Wait until he has taken his first AP exam to guage how well he will do in other courses. (Psych is arguably the easiest AP exam offered, and one of the most interesting.)</p>

9

<p>wow--i can't believe you're planning HIS courses..shouldn't he decide for himself? (I just can't imagine my mom picking out all my classes for me...) Anyways, AP Environmental Science would be a better class for him to take than AP Chemistry. AP Environmental Science was a breeze, seriously...</p>

10

<p>Ooh okay sorry i missed the fact that he was homeschooled</p>

11

<p>Yama Hama...</p>

<p>Ordinary high school goes like this: no AP classes Freshman year, if you're talented and ahead of the class, you take maybe 1 AP in Sophomore year. Junior year you load up and Senior year you load up even more.</p>

<p>You could accelerate it a bit, but not TOO much because he isn't fully mature yet. AP Psych in 8th grade? I haven't taken the class, but that's unheard of. Make sure he knows what he's doing.</p>

12

<p>sprkl325: yes, he is homeschooled so I plan his courses for him...but actually we do it together. He wants to take everything, and we are working to get more information on it. It really is up to him, but since he is homeschooled, he is not limited by what classes are offered and who can take them...it makes it much harder to decide. He wants to take 3 languages, 2 sciences, 2 social studies, etc...it all sounds so interesting to him. We are trying to realistically figure out what he can do!</p>

<p>aim78: I know it sounds like we are accelerating him way ahead, but he is in this crazy situation. When he was little, we lived in Indiana and the cut-off date was totally screwed up...so he is way older than most kids in his grade. He is 15 and in 8th grade!!! We considered grade skipping him, but he decided he wanted to spend his senior year in China as an exchange student so we figured we would just start high school classes in 8th grade since he will be very limited in his choices when he goes to China. This year he is taking a full high school level load of classes: Latin II (semester course continued next year...we are taking it slow), Chinese I, Algebra I (finishing it up) and Algebra II, Great Books II, Western Literature to Dante, Integrated Sciences, AP Psych, and World Civilizations. As far as taking AP classes as an 8th grader or 9th grader, it is done all the time as a homeschooler (I know a homeschooling family whose 6th grader took AP Calc and got a 5 last year...now that is unheard of!). </p>

<p>The suggestions are really good. I know that how well you do depends on how well you know the subject and how well you write and how well you analyze things. So hard to decide!!</p>

<p>One of the reasons we had been thinking of taking Chemistry before Biology, is that the university course he wanted to take in biology requires chemistry before you take it...i am going to do some more checking on that.</p>

<p>We really wanted him to take science classes at the university and then take the AP tests...but the university offers many science courses and it is hard to tell which would be appropriate. I have a feeling that next year we will learn "under fire". He wants to take Chinese, Science and a Social Studies class at the university.</p>

13

<p>In my school you must take Honors US History I as a prereq to AP US History 2. In my school only seniors and juniors take AP's- I would suggest lighteninghis load a tad- that is more than enough AP's for most schools. Plus colleges also look at your GPA and grades, so if he's gonna score lower grades because of the tough load I would lighten it a little.</p>

14

<p>I'll throw in my 2 cents on this. </p>

<p>AP Calc definitely replaces regular Calc. It's no problem to take Stats at the same time as Calc- Stats is very easy, since the entire exam allows calculators. I'd suggest getting a TI-89 to simplify it even more. </p>

<p>Since he's a Latin student (or at least I assume he is, since he's taking AP Latin his senior year), I'd hold off on the AP Language test until Junior year. Third year Latin usually covers the poetic devices and techniques of analysis that are incredibly helpful on the AP Language test. I took the test without the class, and everything I used was from my Latin class.</p>

<p>Which Latin exam does he want to take? Latin Literature is a little bit easier, but Vergil is more rewarding (in my opinion, at least). Most schools also give more credit for Vergil than for Literature. If he's self studying this one (which would be feasible, as long as he stays on schedule), I'd suggest Barbara Boyd's reader. It's fantastic and includes all the selection from the AP exam. If he's a very strong Latin student, he could do Latin Literature his junior year and Vergil his senior year. A student from my school did it successfully, but he's an incredible translator. He could also take both his senior year- that's what I'm doing. </p>

<p>I think Stats, Latin, and English are all excellent self-study options. </p>

<p>A couple more thoughts on the Latin: Make <em>sure</em> that he gets a very, very firm grasp of all the basic (and not so basic) grammatical constructions. He'll really need that knowledge when he gets to higher level Latin. It's very easily to glide over them without really understanding, so make sure he gets them under his belt. </p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

15

<p>I agree 100% with davidrune. I strongly recommend taking AP Biology in 9th grade. I also recommend moving AP Econ down to 10th grade and moving AP Chemistry up to 11th grade.</p>

16

<p>I suggest u move comp. gov to 9th grade... I have taken 9 aps upto this year and comp. gov WAS BY FAR THE EASIEST AND THE MOST INTERESTING. Make sure you supplement his comp.gov studies with a lot of recent articles as it will reinforce the basic concepts (there isn't a lot.... from my school we spent the first quarter covering all the concepts and the second quarter reading articles on the Chinese pulitburo to reinforce the concept... its only a semester course). I found such articles to be extremely useful on the exam as I was able to write about recent events to support my arguments.</p>

17

<p>I would say move AP USH to 10th or 11th grade. It is the hardest among the AP history subjects. Also take AP Environmental Science in 9th grade and move AP Chemistry to 11th grade. Your son might need to study regular chemistry before AP Chemistry but I really don't think that it is necessary. I didn't take regular chemistry and I'm taking AP Chemistry this year. It isn't that hard since I've loved Chemistry ever since I was born. So if your son loves Chemistry, skip regular Chemistry. I think the two history courses in 10th grade are quite good. For 11th grade I would say do Physics B. I know a lot of people who are taking Calc BC with Physics C and they are struggling big time, mostly because Physics C is Calculus-based and to really understand Physics C in calculus you would have to really speed up Calculus. You need to have basic knowledge of Calculus up to integration before you can really do Physics C. Take Physics C in 12th grade. The Physics B will help your son on Physics C conceptually.</p>

18

<p>Don't give this too much weight, but I would probably do it this way:</p>

<p>9th grade: AP World History, AP Biology</p>

<p>10th Grade: AP European History, AP Economics, AP Chemistry</p>

<p>11th Grade: AP Physics (B & C), AP Calculus, AP United States History</p>

<p>12th Grade: AP Latin, AP Chinese, AP English Literature, AP English Language</p>

<p>This way you get in pretty much all the important AP classes without killing your kid.</p>

19

<p>Looking at the list you gave at the top, I'd say chemistry and US History are probably not freshman level courses, and can be pretty tough. I'm taking AP Government online this year, and i find it fairly easy, especially after taking AP Us History and a government class, although i find it a boring subject. AP Stats really can't be that bad, although my school doesn't offer it. One thing i would push for is taking AP Calc BC (Second year) as a senior if you can, as well as a second year of AP Physics C (normally it is done as C: Mechanics and C:Electricity and Magnetism). I took Mechanics last year and loved the course, and found it challenging at times, but was never lost. With that, i'd say leave Chem to 10th grade, and see if you could spread out physics and calc into 2 years, because i found them a lot of fun.</p>

20

<p>To those saying that it is a very difficult course load, I know kids who are home schooled and they do AP classes like they are regular level. Think about what your AP classes would be like if you didn't have mucho amounts of meaningless homework and projects... I was home schooled and it took me much less time to learn material because I could do it via my own methods. I'm not downplaying the difficulty of AP courses but taking them independently is different from taking them in a traditional classroom environment. </p>

<p>Would you be doing it with an online school? Does you school district get involved in the AP classes or is it completely independent? Would these be the only classes or would s/he be taking normal level classes as well?</p>

<p>FWIW, this is what is more "normal" in terms of order(at least for me)</p>

<p>9th: environmental/earth, us history, geography
10th: biology, World History, Art History, English Language
11th Grade: euro, Comparative Government, chem, Calculus, English Literature
12th Grade: stats/calc, Economics, Latin OR Chinese, physics</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>