<p>Are you trying to discern whether you should go to ND or another illustrious choice? Are you petrified about the expense? This is the tiebreaker thread.</p>
<p>So here is where we were a year ago: ND offered admission early, the FA package was basically full pay. DD had state honors at a fraction of the cost, Santa Clara at 75% of the cost, and a couple of top ranked liberal arts colleges that would be roughly the same amount.</p>
<p>So..here is where we are a year later. D. has made a 180 in terms of major. She will take risks that I could not see her doing a year ago and that honestly scare me in terms of how can you support yourself missy, but there's an incredible confidence there that SO FAR has been rewarded in terms of her commitment to an academic major and the faculty scrambling to produce a few crumbs of assistance to indicate to her the fact that should she persist in her commitment to their subject, they will rally to her academic cause. </p>
<p>The other amazing thing has been the alumni interest and support. Our neighbor graduated 40 years ago; he constantly badgers me to find out what he can do to help her. He's the one bugging US-and he's a lawyer for a fairly big name law firm. All I had to do was tell DD to bring him a shirt and stop by his house when she gets back into town-she's never sought him out and he is literally knocking on our door asking us how he can help her. </p>
<p>Anyway, just the $.02 from a couple of state U. heathens whose kid happened to blunder into ND. It does seem to me she is in an amazing spiritual and community web and it is all to the good.</p>
<p>MomBot-
With May 1 fast approaching, this is a very timely thread; I'll bet there are a lot of families out there struggling with this decision. I've posted and PM'd with some very nice folks as we go through the process too. ND was the reach school on Son's list, and he loved the campus on first sight. There is no doubting the very high quality of an ND education, and the unique life experience available, especially on a spiritual and moral development basis. The spirit of the school is almost palpable. As S puts it, it resembles a service academy in that everyone there really wants to be there. We were very excited when he was so fortunate as to be offered acceptance to the Class of 2012.
But the rub, of course, is the high cost. We did not think ND was in reach financially because we have a fairly high EFC, and did not expect any sort of merit aid. Then on Monday, we got a big surprise when S was offered just enough aid from ND to make us seriously consider. Before then, he had all but decided on our state U. and its highly regarded honors program, much like your daughter was offered. That cost, like yours, is a fraction of ND, and might drop further with some small outside scholarships. The ND offer makes it doable, but just barely. We would have to stretch ourselves financially, and he would still incur at least $39,000 in loan debt after four years, and maybe as much as $60,000, a heavy load for someone coming out of college and then hoping to go to med school. Then on Wednesday, we learned that my company is being bought out in a corporate acquisition. This is not necessarily a bad thing for me, but we will not know what is likely to happen for several months. This created an unwelcome element of uncertainty, but maybe better now than next month after we have made this decision. (The stress of this emotional roller coaster is just about all I can take right now.)
Mombot, your post is almost poetic as an expression of what seems like faith, especially considering that you and D chose ND at nearly full price, it seems. If I read it correctly, you seem to fall in the "follow your dream and it will all work out somehow" camp. I don't disparage that, and in fact we sometimes feel that way. It seems a genuine test of faith. But we must also be practical, especially considering the debt factor and the fact we have another child who will start college in two years. We would love to feel a part of the ND community, tradition and network, but are not sure how far those can carry us in such a major financial decision. If an alum should knock on our door with an offer of fianancial help, he will certainly be welcome. Our hearts and are heads, fair to say, are being pulled in two directions. So if there's a tie breaker, I'd like to know clearly what it is.</p>
<p>Hello to Heycow and 4mom4.</p>
<p>I wish you the best of luck merkur regarding the decision and I applaud you and your son for staying on the same page with regard to finances. While I can certainly sympathize with your predicament, I can only say that as the parent of a current ND soph who is paying full price, it has certainly been worth it! Son continues to be happy even when he has had extremely tough weeks as he majors in engineering. Yes, he turned down a full ride at our state U--full tuition, room and board, books, a laptop, summer stipend and honors housing to boot. On the other hand, we feel that he made the right decision even at our expense. And while you certainly have some unexpected factors that have cropped up--I hope that both you and your son can come to a choice/decision that will be both satisfying for your son academically and manageable for you financially. (If your son is considering med school, that is a lot of debt to incur as an undergrad!) Several of son's classmates chose the state U route so that their families could help carry the med school debt instead. I think they are happy and I hope challenged. You are in my thoughts and good luck to you both! Who would have ever dreamed that the cost of a college education would have been this much when we ourselves were in college?</p>
<p>FWIW:</p>
<p>You said</p>
<p>Our hearts and are heads, fair to say, are being pulled in two directions. So if there's a tie breaker, I'd like to know clearly what it is.</p>
<p>The first question I'd ask is - what does your son want to do? How badly does he want to attend Notre Dame? If the idea has captured him, as it did with my son, then he'll do what he has to do to make it possible.</p>
<p>$39,000 or $60,000 is indeed a lot of debt. But that debt is relative; if taken on as an investment in a career than may yield $1,000,000 or much more over his working life, it's an excellent return on the money spent. I encouraged my sons to consider the fact that they will likely spend $250,000 or more on a house at some point down the line, so spending a fraction of that to provide an income stream is a financially sound idea.</p>
<p>Yes, your boy can similar results with a cheaper state college education. I know this to be true, because my oldest is at Notre Dame and his brother attends Ohio State. Given the choice, though, my Buckeye would be a Domer, and I would have gladly helped him financially to make it happen.</p>
<p>I think of this decision as an economist might think of opportunity cost; you never get to relive these years, and this choice affects the rest of your life.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son!</p>
<p>Hi Merkur -</p>
<p>You are in my prayers. Keep us posted on your son's decision. God Bless.</p>
<p>good luck to everybody making decisions. i really hope no matter what the odds you consider ND, because i am confident you can always make up on the money, but not always on the experience</p>
<p>Our S was in the same situation last year. Good merit offers from some private schools, nice scholarship from USC and admitted to Berkeley. ND is the only school that offered no $$. Living in the bay area of California our EFC was crazy. Of course, ND was the school he dreamed of attending. It was a family decision to allow him to go. Could we afford it....kind of. Was it the wisest financial decision...probably not. Is it the right place for him...absolutely.</p>
<p>We consider it an investment in our child. We are fortunate enough to be able to swing it and not everyone can do that. They'll be some debt and some sacrifice, but like the posters above stated, for us, it is worth it.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Notre Dame AL- I think you're from Alabama, so I believe I am very familiar with what your son turned down in favor of ND. UA can make some VERY appealing and interesting offers. Hats off to you for your willingness to pay full cost at ND. Could you expand on the things that have made your son happy at ND (no small consideration!) and made the high cost worth it for him and you? And, no, I would never have pictured college costing what it does today. My tuition and books for LAW SCHOOL were $1,000 PER YEAR at an in-state public university- 30 years ago.</p>
<p>bus52 (and others) I've read all I can find on ND and what makes it special, but as above, can you share with me what specifically makes it all worth it for you and your kids?</p>
<p>Thanks to all for your willingness to share your thoughts as D[ecision]-Day approaches.</p>
<p>Here's a quote from Lou Holtz that might be applicable:
The Notre Dame Spirit:
"When I was on the outside, you heard about the spirit of Notre Dame, but you didn't believe it. I came here and I didn't necessarily believe it. But then I made an interesting observation. If you don't believe in it, you'll never feel it. So I made up my mind I was going to believe in the spirit. And when you believe in it, you feel it. Belief is having the faith when there is no proof. If someone can give you proof, that's not faith, that's facts. I made up my mind and called on our players to do it. There are certain things that are just going to happen, and you have to believe. I believe in the Notre Dame spirit"</p>
<p>What makes it worth it for us?
So much that I won't do well writing it in a succinct and meaningful manner. Every time I turn left from Angela Blvd. and cross the gates, I look up at that Dome. The beauty of it is amazing, yet lots of colleges are beautiful. No, it's all that it represents. ND has a soul. The place has been incredible for my S. (he's a freshman). So many individuals have touched his life in the last 8 months.</p>
<p>I was pretty upset when he left for college. He's the first and no matter how much I tried to prepare, it was incredibly difficult. Yet, when we left parent orientation, both my husband and I looked at each other and said, "There's no place better we could leave him. They will take care of him in every way." And they have...</p>
<p>S particularly loves his dorm and feels it offers all the advantages of a fraternity system without the disadvantages. The rector has been wonderful and very supportive. He has a wonderful group of close friends. </p>
<p>His bosses at his work study job quickly took him under their wing and gave him ever increasing responsibility. They offered him a summer job and continue to work with him on new skills.</p>
<p>He loves his classes and profs. He feels the size of the univ. is perfect--large enough to meet lots of new people and small enough to be very comfortable. I see him getting the individual attention I would have expected only at a smaller LAC type environment.</p>
<p>Everyone we have met and dealt with has been incredibly nice and helpful. He has said he is sure that all potential employees have to pass a "niceness" test. There are plenty of struggles in college life--it's comforting to know people will be pleasant and work together.</p>
<p>I know HS seniors struggling with this decision would like concrete, quanitifiable answers on how to pick College X. Scores, GPAs, rank, etc. can be quantified. Many things, and especially the "special" things ND offers, are intangible.</p>
<p>The "family" emphasis--I questioned if they really backed it like they said they did. They do. Ditto for the emphasis on community and faith. To us, it probably boils down to the fact that they combine these things, in addition to academic excellence, in a way that few or no other colleges do.</p>
<p>merkur: I turned down my #1 and #2 this year to attend an in-state university, and would otherwise have incurred 40-60k i loans upon graduation (I hope to attend law school later on).</p>
<p>I'm really happy with my decision, and it's a HUGE relief not to have a financial burden!</p>
<p>However, ND is a very special school, so you're smart to seriously consider it. I'd say if your in-state U is academically similar (eg Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UNC, UVA, etc), it would be smart to save the money (my cousin just got out of med school with 120k in loans...add 40k onto that and there's a lot of $$)!
However, if there's a big difference in education/experience (yes, ND is unique, but other schools offer a rewarding time as well), ND is a very logical pick-and money well spent.</p>
<p>Just my input from a fellow hs senior! Good luck, either decision is a logical one!</p>
<p>What to do...what to do...D finally decided that ND is where she wants to be! A few factors in the decision:
- She was accepted EA and had those extra months to mull over and really accept that she'd be pretty far from home (we're east coasters) and was able to really come to terms with it. (For her personality, I think the month of April might have felt rushed. She may still have choosen ND, but I think it would have been with some apprehension. Now she's just feeling great about it!)
- She has been contacted by either ND students, local ND alumni club, or ND admissions at least once every few weeks since being accepted. (We think D is amazing, but in the big scheme of ND accepted students we/she knows she is not at the top - All the more enticing that the proverbial red carpet was being rolled out for a typical admitted student from so many facets of the school.)
- Although our EFC is slightly above the costs, ND FA office offered a small need based scholarship - About enough to cover the costs of those long trips home and maybe a book or two.<br>
- Our local admissions person was amazingly in sync with our D's temperment. D is not a gushy outgoing type, and in a few face to face meetings and a few emails Katie seemed to hit the perfect level of enthusiasm and really seemed to get across to D how she specifically would fit in so well at ND. D left energized after each conversation and did not have this experience with ANY of her other admissions people. (She didn't overly weigh this in her decision since she knows once the check is written Katie is not a big piece of the equation, but it sure helped create that warm fuzzy feeling about ND in general.)
- My H and I are not alumni. We've heard the alumni support system hype, but really, could it be all that amazing??? Well, we're quickly becoming believers. The level of contact from them has far outstripped ALL of the other schools where she applied. And this is just the beginning!
- We sat down with D and scrutinized the finances together. She realizes that with some of her other choices there would be more financial freedoms in the short run. She'd graduate debt free from all her other choices (with our help) and will take on some debts in order to make ND work. (Luckily, we'll be able to help her keep that to a manageable amount.)<br>
- After charting out the pros and cons, we were all amazed at how much the scales were tipped toward ND. All of us are at peace with this decision, despite knowing there will be some financial tightening of the belts; especially since our S is a HS junior :)
Now we're just waiting to find out which home game we will get tickets to!<br>
Good luck to everyone in their decision.</p>
<p>As parents, we felt the communication with admissions and the administration was excellent. The alumni contact once S was accepted was great. But it was the visit in April that sealed the deal for him (and us too). Everything from the tour guide to the rectors to the students was just top notch. He did an overnight (at our insistence) and met a group of guys that were interesting and easy to get along with. He fit and it seemed like the real thing....This was a huge issue having looked at UCB and USC. Every person we encountered at ND was kind. His admissions rep came down and met with us to say hello. I am a counselor so I grilled her (nicely) with all types of questions and she answered everyone of them honestly-even when it wasn't in ND's favor. I respected that. On campus, the students seemed very into whatever was going on at the time. All these little things added up to make it seem special and right. </p>
<p>It's a given that everyone falls for the beauty of the campus!</p>
<p>My daughter is constantly calling home saying "this place is amazing". There is absolutely no other place for her. The support systems they have are incredible. The dorm life is fun. The education is the best. The spirit permeates the campus. The alumni support is amazing the sent pizza first semenster during finals week and care package during finals this semester. When the local club president goes out to campus he took my daughter to lunch and made her feel like the alum from home are rallying behind her. There is truly no where else like ND. Good luck. </p>
<p>VC good choice for you and good luck</p>
<p>Well, DS made his decision to enroll at The Univ. of Ga. and their Honors Program. There are many things he likes very much about Notre Dame, but the cost and attendant debt were the dealbreaker. One good idea from my wife: let your child make the decision, after explaining the parameters and consequences. I think a student may less likely be happy if their college choice is imposed on them.</p>
<p>I must say, the passion expressed by so many for ND on this forum does not make it easy to walk away from the opportunity to be a part of the ND family. DS had seen ND as a pinnacle for a couple of years, and we will always be proud of his being accepted and even being offered a scholarship. We will put behind us any thoughts of what might have been, knowing that in the long run, he is going to be just fine. He is happy with his choice and looking forward to going to UGA in the fall. We are happy that he will be closer to home and able to go to college debt-free. We can also see him more often and go to more football games with him!</p>
<p>I'd like to reiterate my thanks to all who have shared their opinions and advice during this last rather trying week. Many have sent me long and heartfelt PM's, and I will be thanking you individually for your thoughtfulness.</p>
<p>Y'all come visit now, y'hear? How 'bout them Dawgs?</p>
<p>Best of Luck to you and your son merkur--we know several at UGA!</p>
<p>Merkur--Given some unfortunate events in D's life, she had the financial resources to make the decision independent of the worry of whether she'd have debt or not. If substantial debt had been part of the equation, there would most likely not have been the loss issues she's had to deal with, so the decision may have been very different.</p>
<p>Godspeed to your DS. A state honors program is truly an honor and he will do exceedingly well.</p>
<p>kr: much thanks, I hope to have as rewarding an experience as your D is having at ND!</p>
<p>merkur:
[Quote]
Y'all come visit now, y'hear? How 'bout them Dawgs?
[/Quote]
Ohhhh gosh</p>
<p>Who else was struggling in "Trying to Decide?" How did you resolve it? It occurred to me that ND admits about 3500, enrolls about 2000, so a lot of folks are faced with these decisions.</p>
<p>We were struggling with it also -- my daughter also got into Villanova, BC, and Holy Cross as well as two state schools and an Ivy league. If she hadn't had the Ivy league opportunity which included some majors that are not offered at ND, she would have gone to ND. It was also closer to home, had more activities off campus, and had more food and housing options available. Money didn't enter the equation much except for our in-state schools, as all of the Catholic schools and the Ivy League were within $2000 of each other. I find it interesting that schools in such diverse locations could all be so close in total price -- it's clearly not a coincidence.</p>