<p>I'm considering switching teachers but, before I do, I'd like to find someone else who I work well with. </p>
<p>Where should I start looking? I already have one person in mind, but I'd like to take some trial lessons with some other people as well. </p>
<p>This is Chicago, btw.</p>
<p>Anybody at the CSO strike your fancy? At your level and abiliity, sounds like the place to start.</p>
<p>I'm already studying with someone in the CSO, but we aren't getting along particularly well these days... I'm concerned that if I try someone else in his section, that wouldn't go over too well with him... but it's also a collection of some of the top bassists in the world and in chicago absolutely, so it's hard to not try people from there. </p>
<p>Switching teachers is a tough thing.</p>
<p>Have you considered talking to your teacher about it? If you're not getting along well, perhaps he'd be sympathetic to your desire to change and help you make an appropriate choice. Maybe I'm being naive, but this might be possible.</p>
<p>Hey Cosmos,
I think you've given your teacher the old college try, so to speak. This isn't the first time you've considered switching. It's been a year and, from your posts, it seems as if your relationship just isn't getting better.
I would not avoid his section mates. It's likely that you are not the first student to switch teachers within the CSO. It's also likely that they know his personality and will understand your decision to try someone else. They don't want to be put in an awkward position, so you'll know after you call whether there is a problem with switching within the section.<br>
Maybe your high school teacher could be of some help to you in deciding who to try. Otherwise, I would be very up front with the teachers you call for sample lessons. Say that you have tremendous respect for your current teacher, but that you are having some personality conflicts. They'll understand.
I would not exhaust the entire bass section with trial lessons...once you interview people and decide not to go with them, it might be difficult to get into their studios. Do your research and be judicious. Talk to other students.<br>
Good luck!!! Let us know how it goes.</p>
<p>Cosmos, if I recall you've mentioned some "heavy hitters" as some of your previous instructors. It might be worth talking to the one you're most comfortable with and pick their brains for suggestions. Depending on this past relationship, it might even smooth the process by having insights from a past instructor. </p>
<p>Particular anecdotes, insights and personal knowledge may be available from a colleague "in the biz" that you may not get elsewhere.</p>
<p>Cosmos,</p>
<p>As a mom who has switched her piano and violin playing offspring in situations similar to yours, I think you've received excellent advice! It isn't easy to switch among "name" teachers who are likely to know each other - just be up front with anyone you contact as Symphonymom suggests. From a "been there, done that perspective", any potential difficulties can be handled quite matter of factly if you indicate respect for your current teacher and emphasize that it's you - not the teacher's inadequacies - that are causing you to look elsewhere.</p>
<p>I also think Violadad hit on a very important point. It isn't a great idea to have a large number of "trial" lessons - word can get around and reflect back badly on you. At least in the violin/piano worlds that I know best, many teachers don't like the notion that they are being auditioned by a student. They feel they should be auditioning the student or, at best, that a trial lesson is a mutual exploration. If you have one teacher in mind, I'd check it out with anyone who might know the person and if the signs are right, go after that. </p>
<p>In reality, if you don't have an overriding problem of teacher/student personality conflict, there are probably several teachers who would be fine for you. Trying to identify "the best" with just a lesson or two may not even be possible. I know I spent too much time second guessing the choices I had made for my kids before I realized that they truly had excellent teachers and were making progress. If the progress wasn't as much as their mom wanted to see, I finally had to honestly admit that the problem was in my kids, not in the instructors! I think S has seen this at college also. Kids wonder if they would be better off in someone else's studio. Given teachers with fine long standing reputations and absent any personality conflicts or true inabilities to communicate, I think success often comes down to the student taking full responsibility for making the most of the instruction offered.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the great advice. </p>
<p>I have someone in mind who I'd like to try working with, and the contact information for two other teachers who I could try if the first person doesn't work out for whatever reason. </p>
<p>I've already talked to this person about switching to him or taking a lesson from him, and he's asked me to ask my current teacher if it's alright with him if I take a lesson with this other person... </p>
<p>How do you think I should go about asking my teacher if it's ok if I take a lesson with someone else? The really tough talk will be telling him I'm switching teachers if it comes to that...</p>
<p>check with the Civic Orchestra; Roosevelt or Northwestern.</p>
<p>Cosmos, the situation you describe - apparently tight knit bass community not wanting to offend colleagues by taking on others' students - is the violin situation amongst some "top" violin teachers in my area. I know my S's teacher always asked anyone coming in for a trial or audition lesson if the current teacher had been informed. That makes life easier for the teachers, but really puts the already unhappy student in a tough spot.</p>
<p>I don't suppose there's anyway to work this through U of C? I know their music dept. isn't like a standard conservatory that has protocols/procedures for students wishing to switch teachers - a 3rd party to negotiate the change, etc. Any resources there?</p>
<p>Short of contacting someone else who might not be so scrupulous in wanting the current teacher to be informed of a potential switch, I think you may be stuck opening a discussion with your current teacher about the possibility of a switch. Approach it matter-of-factly, indicate that you sense he's displeased with your progress, level of preparation, whatever else you can think of. Act as if it's all your fault (even though it probably isn't). Such a conversation can seem awkward and isn't a lot to look forward to, but in acutality, you're probably not the first student who has left this teacher. The teacher is a professional and doesn't need you as much as you need him - and he should know that. If you're polite and respectful and obviously sorry that the situation didn't work out, you may be able to get his help in switching.</p>
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How do you think I should go about asking my teacher if it's ok if I take a lesson with someone else? The really tough talk will be telling him I'm switching teachers if it comes to that...
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<p>musicianmom's last paragraph is good advice. The key is to open, communicative, and not burn any bridges. You may have to stroke his ego at the expense of yours, but I would not be a sycophant about it either.</p>
<p>It is after all your money, your time, your development, and your satisfaction that is the most critical point here. You're paying for a service, and want to explore other options. As the consumer, you have that right. If required, be tactful, yet as adamant as necessary in putting across your desire to explore options.</p>
<p>Take a look back at your earlier thread (from the fall?) where you asked about working through a rough spot with this instructor. I recall you getting some sound advice there as well. Good luck.</p>
<p>I'm not sure you have to have the conversation about switching teachers when you ask your current teacher about taking a lesson with someone else. Unless he brings it up. Otherwise, I would simply say that you'd like to work on some things with "Mr. X" and asks if he would mind if you take a lesson. </p>
<p>If this brings on the question of switching, I would use it as an opportunity to discuss your relationship with him (in an extremely, extremely, extremely tactful manner). I would really try to avoid it at this juncture...it's too premature.</p>
<p>My son often takes lessons from other teachers. In fact, sometimes, his teacher will say, "X just played Pictures...go take a lesson with him...or Y just performed the Haydn...go get a lesson with him." I don't think it's unusual in "Brassland"....brass teachers tend to be less proprietary.</p>
<p>Symphonymom --</p>
<p>It is rare for a string teacher to be that way. They are often proprietary and occasionally to a fault. Not always, but often enough to warrant a lot of caution. They are quite jealous of each other and I imagine that Cosmos (who must be pretty good) is a prize for a teacher. The teacher is even more likely to be sensitive if the consulting teacher is also a close colleague as in this case. I've heard of violin teachers "firing" students who stray for even one lesson which they haven't been told about. These teachers can be very tetchy. Nevertheless, there are ways to navigate through these treacherous waters: my son is the only former student of his first teacher who left her before conservatory that she still talks to. We were able to give her reasons for leaving which, while not the whole truth, were partially true and convincing. Usually, she feels so betrayed that she cannot maintain relations. This has been too bad for her in at least one case where her student of 7 years left her when he was 13 and has become (at 19) quite a successful performing musician and they don't talk. </p>
<p>Consequently, I would advise Cos to be sure to advise her current teacher if she is going to take a lesson with any other teacher before doing so - with as much tact as she can muster. It is better not to make enemies in this sometimes-claustrophobic world. I would imagine that most of the top bassists in the country know each other!</p>
<p>Agreed. String teachers can be a bit too proprietary, at times to the detriment of a student. Cosmos gave it a year, and stuck it out. If she feels she's not getting the bang for her buck or more importantly the type of mentor/student relationship she's looking for, it is quite probably the time to move on.</p>
<p>Agree with the above re string teachers!</p>
<p>My S likes to coach orchestral excerpts with a former teacher (major symphony player). He has never mentioned this to his middleschool/high school or conservatory teachers - and never will. Even though his most recent teachers have all made their careers as major pedagogues and not as orchestral players, the risk of offending someone is just too great!</p>
<p>I don't want to pull the conversation too far from Cosmos's situation, but I know at S's conservatory and I'd guess most others, the students are supposed to check with their teachers before "signing on" for summer study with someone else. I'm sure there's usually no problem with the major festivals and teachers, but the conservatory wants to reserve the right for the main studio teacher to raise objection or concern. Protection or proprietary? I like to assume the requirement is well meant!</p>
<p>I was a violinist...I know the scene:) Egos, you know....</p>
<p>I think I did advise Cosmos to be very, very, very tactful. A confrontation might be unavoidable, but the gist of my message was to perhaps put it off as long as possible (until she has found her new teacher) and to try to end the relationship, if it comes to that, on a very positive note, so to speak. People have long memories.</p>
<p>I doubt that this teacher is new to having students move on...but the fact that this new teacher wants her to ask permission before taking a trial lesson makes me advise utmost caution...no one wants to tick him off. And that's the kind of person one does not want to leave on poor terms.</p>
<p>symphonymom, as you say, tact is required. The occasional forelock tugging and slight deference can help as well. The old phrase "By your leave" comes to mind. Most of these scenarios end very positively for both parties. The pond is a bit too small to create large waves, unless you get backed into a corner.</p>
<p>Just speaking as a parent, I would advise my kid in this situation to see himself (herself) as a consumer, somewhat. Know that you are entitled to a comfortable fit that will enable you to grow as a musician. Be honest but tactful, as violadad says. A poor match between student and teacher does not have to impinge on anyone's ego, though a difficult conversation or two will probably have to take place.</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for the advice. </p>
<p>One other question, how is taking lessons with two teachers concurrently viewed?</p>
<p>In my experience, that rarely works unless both teachers know about the other, agree with the arrangement, and you are either studying different things with each (e.g. classical with one and jazz with the other) or else you are working with one on a very specific and well-defined facet of your playing for a limited number of lessons. </p>
<p>Otherwise, there are a lot of potential pitfalls, including being overworked because both are conducting lessons as though you were only going to be practicing for them, being torn between different techniques if they take a different approach, and having one find out about the other (remember how small the bass world is at your level and above) with the result that neither will have you as a student. In a worst-case scenario, you could do physical harm to yourself either from overwork or by an inappropriate combination of incompatible techniques.</p>