I concur with all of your points spaceship, but the last one: not sure there any evidence of a net financial gain to the state. There are studies that seem to indicate that illegal immigrants are economically a plus for the federal government (primarily paying into SS, but unable to collect benefits), but the states absorb the local community costs, such as K-12 education and health care.
I work in adult ed, and about half of my students, at any given time, are undocumented. Every single one is holding down at least one job. This being Tax Week, I can also report that all of my undocumented current students have just filed their taxes using an ITIN. So yes, the families are contributing. They are not taking anything away from the documented community.
I’m all for any program helping deserving kids get an education. I don’t give a hoot about citizenship or man-made borders - or parentage. (Any kid should be eligible.) There’s a high correlation between educated folks and having a better life - with that better life helping the local area via taxes, etc. Want to eliminate homelessness? This should be one bit that tries to help.
The students have to meet some requirements, typically graduating from a state HS. The programs also seem to mostly appy to community colleges for free tuition or to treat these kids as in-state residents (which they are ) for financial aid purposes. It is not a free pass into a competitive college. They are living and working in the community. The K-12 schools educate them, they and their families pay taxes including income, sales tax, property taxes (either for their own home or as part of their rent), gas tax and others. Why shouldn’t they get some benefit from that?
The number of students living in poverty that get to elite colleges or even state flagship schools is very small. It is probably far less than the number of other “hooked” kids such as atheletes or legacies.
Considering how expensive in state tuition already is in our state for tax-payers, no way would I support this for PA.
Lower costs across the board first.
@3js3ks – the education isn’t free. It’s paid for by the very same taxes you – and these students – pay.
Why not create scholarships for them instead, and fund them through private donations?
I live in NYC. There are one heck of a lot of illegal aliens here. Sometimes it is really surprising to find out that a particular person is illegal.
I have a couple of friends and acquaintances who teach at CUNY. Some of their brightest students are illegals. They are attending CUNY because they can’t get federal financial aid.
One of my friends teaches a STEM subject. She needs to hire a TA. When she can’t get a grad student she sometimes hires an undergrad who already took her course and excelled in it. She approached someone who was just outstanding. He turned down the job, which surprised her. He then admitted he’s illegal and reluctant to run the risk of getting caught by signing up to be on the CUNY payroll.
Pennsylvania does not appear to be a state with a “graduate high school after 3 years of attendance” provision for residency for tuition purposes, although points 2 and 3 in https://bursar.psu.edu/residency-policy could possibly be applicable at discretion of the universities.
However, since undocumented or DACA status students commonly come from lower income families, it is unlikely that they would be able to afford Pennsylvania public universities (PASSHE or CSHE) even if they get Pennsylvania residency for tuition purposes.
The undocumented students do not get any federal funds, so this aid kicks in before federal aid for undocumented students but after federal aid for documented students.
If you have two students with $0 EFC (although the undocumented students don’t really have an EFC), the documented student would get a Pell grant, likely an SEOG, and be expected to take the $5500 student loan before a lot of the state aid kicks in. Undocumented student would have aid kick in without the loan amount. That’s what I disagree with, that the citizen/documented student has to take the loan while the undocumented student may not have to.
That is if the state aid is increased for the student who is not eligible to get FAFSA-based aid. If the state aid is not increased in this case, then the student who is not eligible to get FAFSA-based aid just gets less grants (no Pell) and cannot take federal direct loans.
A few years I attended a high school graduation in which the valedictorian announced she was in the country illegally. This high school was on the better schools in the area. Her mother brought her to the country when she was six years old and she cleaned office buildings at night for a living. Half the attendees at the ceremony were upset because she was an illegal. The other half (including myself) were proud of her because she was able to outperform students who clearly had economic among other advantages over her. She received a full ride to Columbia University. She attended our elementary, middle and high schools but yet many felt she was not entitled to receive the benefits of her hard work. I can see the argument on both sides but her speech was one that left a lasting impression on me.
@Grainraiser - “The other half (including myself) were proud of her because she was able to outperform students who clearly had economic among other advantages over her. She received a full ride to Columbia University.” I would be proud of her too, especially under the circumstances she grew up in. I think the full ride to Columbia was probably well deserved, but I think the crux of the argument for those who were upset (just a guess, know way for me to know what they’re thinking) probably had nothing to do with the fact that this particular student was illegal - but with the fact that there is an illegal alien population in this country that are reaping financial benefits from the government and institutions that aren’t as driven or successful as this valedictorian is.
For example, there’s a debate in the state of New York right now about the approval of millions of dollars (taxes) to be granted specifically to undocumented kids to attend college for lowered or even free tuition. In the bill, in states that illegals are only required to have been in this country for more than 30 days and pass a GED to qualify. At the same time, that same NY senate had voted to defund millions of dollars for gold star children of parents killed or seriously wounded in the line of duty serving our country. I think the reasoning behind decisions like this gets lost on many people.
Many migrants come here looking for a better life. If we helped their kids get to college…that would be one step towards them getting a better life, becoming citizens who vote, etc. That said…college costs are out of control…and there is no one solution.
I say this with an undocumented worker family member with some insight as to how there is sort of an underground network in place . . . the irony with granting a dreamer or any other illegal college tuition is that upon graduating they may or may not be able to work in their field. Many - like the grad student referenced above - do NOT want to get on the radar. I’m assuming it would be next to impossible to get a job in some industries without proper paperwork not just a diploma. Until dreamers get citizenship and there is a streamlined pathway to citizenship for undocumented workers this could be a moot point.
Presuming you mean New York S.1250: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/S1250 .
Eligibility is given by these provisions:
QUOTE=New York S.1250 AN APPLICANT WHO IS NOT A LEGAL RESIDENT OF THE STATE ELIGIBLE
PURSUANT TO SUBPARAGRAPH (I) OF THIS PARAGRAPH, BUT IS A UNITED STATES
CITIZEN, A PERMANENT LAWFUL RESIDENT, A LAWFUL NON-IMMIGRANT ALIEN OR AN
APPLICANT WITHOUT LAWFUL IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE ELIGIBLE FOR AN
AWARD AT THE UNDERGRADUATE LEVEL OF STUDY PROVIDED THAT THE STUDENT:
(A) ATTENDED A REGISTERED NEW YORK STATE HIGH SCHOOL FOR TWO OR MORE
YEARS, GRADUATED FROM A REGISTERED NEW YORK STATE HIGH SCHOOL AND
APPLIED FOR ATTENDANCE AT THE INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION FOR THE
UNDERGRADUATE STUDY FOR WHICH AN AWARD IS SOUGHT WITHIN FIVE YEARS OF
RECEIVING A NEW YORK STATE HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA; OR
(B) ATTENDED AN APPROVED NEW YORK STATE PROGRAM FOR A STATE HIGH
SCHOOL EQUIVALENCY DIPLOMA, RECEIVED A STATE HIGH SCHOOL EQUIVALENCY
DIPLOMA AND APPLIED FOR ATTENDANCE AT THE INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCA-
TION FOR THE UNDERGRADUATE STUDY FOR WHICH AN AWARD IS SOUGHT WITHIN
FIVE YEARS OF RECEIVING A STATE HIGH SCHOOL EQUIVALENCY DIPLOMA; OR
(C) IS OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE FOR THE PAYMENT OF TUITION AND FEES AT A
RATE NO GREATER THAN THAT IMPOSED FOR RESIDENT STUDENTS OF THE STATE
UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK, THE CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK OR COMMUNITY
COLLEGES AS PRESCRIBED IN SUBPARAGRAPH EIGHT OF PARAGRAPH H OF SUBDIVI-
SION TWO OF SECTION THREE HUNDRED FIFTY-FIVE OR PARAGRAPH (A) OF SUBDI-
VISION SEVEN OF SECTION SIXTY-TWO HUNDRED SIX OF THIS CHAPTER.
PROVIDED, FURTHER, THAT A STUDENT WITHOUT LAWFUL IMMIGRATION STATUS
SHALL ALSO BE REQUIRED TO FILE AN AFFIDAVIT WITH SUCH INSTITUTION OF
HIGHER EDUCATION STATING THAT THE STUDENT HAS FILED AN APPLICATION TO
LEGALIZE HIS OR HER IMMIGRATION STATUS, OR WILL FILE SUCH AN APPLICATION
AS SOON AS HE OR SHE IS ELIGIBLE TO DO SO.
[/QUOTE]
It looks like SUNY already had similar policies where students in categories (A) and (B) above “may be eligible” for resident tuition: https://www.suny.edu/smarttrack/residency/ . However, there is no mention of whether FAFSA-ineligible students can apply for New York state financial aid at https://www.suny.edu/smarttrack/applying-for-financial-aid/ .
Was just going to post the same. The information in #32 is not correct. Students must have been in a NY state high school for at least 2 years and have graduated (or gotten a GED).
The gold star family provisions were already in place for those killed in combat or combat training, but not for those that died in other ways. The commitee withheld the bill because they said this should have been included in the overall education funding bill, not separately. They were not necessariliy against the idea.
However, as of today, the Governor expanded the scholarship to a broader range.
I’m not a believer in free tuition for anybody, whether you’re here legally or illegally. When you pay for something, you take it more seriously. Tuition should be affordable, though. Maybe $200 or $300 per semester for community college.
I do hate the idea of people being rewarded for being here illegally, and this kind of thing also attracts more illegals. On the other hand, if they’re here and they’re going to stay, we might as well educate them so they can contribute to society.
@Grainraiser, I find that it’s not a half and half situation as there are many who are conflicted in how they feel about this. The situation you describe, however, is not as difficult, IMO, because Columbia University is a private school, and what they choose to award with their own money. The controversy often comes with regard to taxpayer money subsidizing the cost
If this student got a high school degree from a NY high school, state TAP funds could be used to pay for the college costs due to a recently bill passed. This is where there is a lot of controversy. However, the elected representatives of the state voted to pass this bill. It comes down to how each state wants to spend its taxpayers money. The student is not eligible for federal funds.
We cover the costs of all children going to school k-12 these days, whether they are here legally or not. The question is whether we should subsidize college costs as well, given that they are not fully covered for most US citizens.
I have a whole other issue that bothers me on all of this: I don’t think private schools like Columbia should get ANY government money like TAP or PELL or subsidized loans for ANYONE. Let them usd ALL of their own money for financial aid. IMO, public college tuition should be free, and the money we are spending subsidizing private schools would help bring us closer to that goal. I’d start with the public community colleges first.
Then individual states can decide if they want to continue to have taxpayers pay for kids illegally here after highschool by categorizing them as instate or as OOS. International students pay OOS tuition. Why someone coming into the country legally should have to pay that premium when the ones in the country illegally don’t is an issue to me. Students pay accordingly to where their parents live, and what they have done. That it’s no fault of a child that the parents made them illegal is not the standard we place on US kids, international kids, in terms of payment of college. Once 24, a student is considered independent, and the issue can be applied to the student, and
parents are out of the picture
There are a lot of American citizens that would love to attend OOS schools but the tuition is too high, so giving illegal foreigners access to cheaper tuition really rubs me the wrong way.