Tuition-Free Programs to Undocumented Students

Parents Forum
61

I do have a problem with illegal immigrants. To me, having a law and procedure to enter and stay in our country should mean that there are consequences for breaking those laws, not rewarding those who do so.

When parents break the law, yes, their children suffer. The whole family suffers when someone goes to jail, is fined or has other consequences. This is the case for US citizens. So, yes, if parents outstayed their legal allowed time in this country or snuck in, the innocent kids get penalized. I see no unfairness in that situation, given the way things work for all families and children.

Right now, we still have a ways to go in many parts of our country to give college access to all US citizens. Children who do not have the support of their parents, whose parents do not have the money or resources to support college, who live too far from accessible colleges, who do not have regular access to computers all find it challenging if not nigh impossible to get higher education.

If I were truly “cptofthehouse” in terms of US college accessibility, my first order of business would be to strip federal funds from private schools and redirect them towards state schools starting with local and community colleges and look towards providing transportation options and computer use for those who live far from colleges. Or perhaps putting in annexes where one can start college in those areas. States and localities have already done this in many parts of this country. Columbia, NYU, Harvard do not need Pell as part of their financial aid packages.

When the system assured higher education access to all of our citizens, I’d look at the issue of legal immigrants that want to send their children to our colleges but cannot afford the prices. I’d also point out all of this to each state and encourage addressing these gaps.

Then it would be up to each state as it is now as to how to treat non residents whether they are here legally or not. But I would want the issues resolved for those here legally first.

Our immigration and asylum processes are pitiful. They make no sense IMO to reality. How we are addressing this now is getting scrutinized by the press. The focus has been more to how to keep people OUT, discourage immigration rather than how to civilly , compassionately and efficiently process applicants. It is life threatening to go through the gauntlet of legally applying to gain entry here. And we are breaking our own rules that do allow those who are in country illegally to apply for legal status. We are going against the very tenets that our Statue of Liberty and those beautiful words describe. We are doing nothing to change this horrible process

The thing is, once in this country, we then make it a crazy deadly game of cat and mouse, simultaneously rewarding and punishing illegal immigrants. We dangle free college, heck, free education and yet they live the fear of being “ICED”.

So to me, this is all a part of a much larger problem and we are putting the shoe before the foot in having funds available to those here illegally when these shoe makers have yet to provide shoes for their own children.

62

The assumption by some is that those here illegally are milking the system. However, as has been pointed out, many are working at jobs others don’t want. They pay taxes in the state they live in and so are residents. Most states are not giving them free college, but just the same tuition rates and opportunities for scholarships that other state residents have.

I don’t believe in open borders, but do have a lot of empathy for those that have overcome huge obstacles to come to this country from horrible situations in their land of birth. We are all incredibly lucky to have been born here with the opportunity to send our kids to decent schools for K-12 and then to college. Kids that are capable of college will generally end up as assests in this country. What are the options for these kids if there is no possibility of a decent job? Criminal activity? Going back to a country that they have never lived in?

63

It may not actually be “most” states, although some states (including some of the larger ones like Texas and California) do allow students with undocumented or DACA status to be state residents for tuition (and sometimes financial aid) purposes within the provision for those students who graduated high school in the state after some years of attendance or residency. Note that some other states have residency based on high school graduation in the state but do not include undocumented or DACA status students. With or without including undocumented or DACA status students, residency through high school graduation in the state is often used by traditional college students who would otherwise lose residency because their parents move out of state.

64

Sorry, I meant the states that were offering anything. I believe most states do not allow DACA or any undocumented students to get in-state tuition. My point was it is generally not the case that states are handing these kids a free ride but ony the opportunity to pay in-state rates and get aid if qualified.

65

Sorry. Just another example of government treating non-citizens better than the citizens they are supposed to represent. There are many deserving citizens who could use tuition assistance.

66

Looks like some imagination that it is “better” (as opposed to the same for some limited aspect).

But then it is not surprising that, as most people increasingly see society moving toward a negative sum, everyone-for-himself/herself situation, people tend to think that everyone else has an unfair advantage and thus harbor grievances based on such perceptions, whether or not they are true.

67

Nope. No country has unlimited resources. Thus, you need to ration those resources. That’s the benefit of citizenship. Giving those resources to non-citizens when you have needy citizens is the problem.

68

@yourmomma - I would happily take every dollar spent for educating illegal foreigners and spend it on needy citizens even if it meant higher produce prices and higher prices in other industries, since taking away the incentives for illegal immigration would result in fewer illegal immigrants and drive wages up.

69

I’m not for open borders and I do agree that more could be done to help keep college affordable for citizens. That said, there are reasons why people come here illegally and it’s usually to get away from pretty miserable circumstances…we should help more people become citizens and get legal…you know, the American Dream is pretty enticing! There is a reason people want to come here…

70

Also, why should the kids be penalized for something the parents did?

71

Problem is, like it or not, it invites more people to do the same. Free education K-12 followed by free college tuition is a powerful enticement to come to this country illegally. Heck, I’d risk my life and my families too for exactly that plus all the other opportunities if I were in their shoes. Of course if it were easy to do so, after a while there would be too much strain on the system and it would go to crap.

72

Incentives to immigrate (legally or illegally) are typically jobs. (And it is not necessarily free tuition – typically the largest benefit in states that have such provisions is eligibility for state financial aid, which does not necessarily mean free tuition.)

If the agriculture, construction, and hospitality industries would all follow the IRCA requirements carefully (using the convenient E-Verify system), much of the unauthorized immigration will stop. But they seem uninterested in doing that for some reason.

73

From what I’ve been told by employers, apparently the work ethic and willingness to do “whatever” on a job is far greater in folks willing to walk miles in all sorts of weather seriously risking life and limb to try to provide for their families than it is in most Americans who have been raised with AC, plenty of food, shelter, and discretionary money, etc. For agriculture, construction, and hospitality having a good work ethic is super important. All three are big employers in our area.

I know their kids are often quite dedicated in school and their parents rarely take the kids’ side in any dispute between them and the teacher.

It’s not just kids here illegally either. We have legal immigrants and refugees too. I was just talking with one I met more in depth a couple of weeks ago and she said she’s going to insist her kids spend a couple of years in her home country so they know the difference about what life could be like. The vast majority of our refugee kids feel similarly about that difference.

I wish all people could have a similar experience TBH. I expect it would change many things in their lives, including affecting compassion for those less fortunate and less materialism - probably less depression/blues (vs medical deep depression) about petty things too.

There’s a reason the US was made great by having many immigrants.

74

Even in those days almost every immigrant was legally here (mostly because we had very few restrictions), times have changed, continued immigration at those rates is unsustainable. Of course Native Americans might object to your statement.

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This, of course, being the key point. Pretty much everyone today would be here legally with the same rules as before.

True. “Great” has to be seen in modern context of finances and power, etc. The land/critters/area was doing pretty darn well before the immigrants decided to settle it and start changing life. This goes back to pondering what I mentioned before wondering if all of us should go back to where our ancestors came from if that’s our standard or argument. Personally, I don’t think that’s needed - it’s just the natural conclusion.

The planet is becoming and has become more populated. Folks need to live somewhere. Our country is as capable (or more) than many others of sustaining more people. Population density-wise we’re number #175 of 230 countries listed. That’s hardly overcrowded by world standards.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-density/

As a general correlation, the more education one has, the better life one has - including fewer kids if we’re concerned about overpopulation in general - which brings me back to supporting a free or low cost college/trade school options for proven capable kids regardless of their parentage (US kids included) being a good state investment - esp if a “work here afterward” clause is in there.

76

In life there is no “free”, someone has to pay for it. K-12 is done by taxes. The public high school my kids went to offered free trade school options for those not interested in college, so that is already there. The idea that going to college will make you successful is a fallacy, if you don’t have the tools to succeed in college and beyond then you need to look elsewhere. No easy answers like free college will solve the problem.

77

We already have a huge problem spending money we don’t have then expecting our children and grand-children to pay it back. Encouraging more foreigners to come here by offering more free education and taking on more debt to fund it is a very bad idea.

And I bet a large majority would vote against raising there taxes to educate more foreigners, but that is the path we are going down.

78

@yourmomma I’m curious. Why do you think DACA treats “non-citizens better than citizens”. In what way do these laws give advantageous consideration?

79

@tpike12 – and yet, states spend less on their higher education than ever before. (And they’re educating more people than ever before.) The burden ISN’T on taxpayers, who are actually seeing less of their money going to colleges. The burden is on the individual student, who is paying more. So your argument is sort of a moot point.

80

An example: a US citizen student from Iowa accepted at UCB but cannot afford a $65k/yr to attend, while a DACA non-citizen in Ca who entered the country illegally a few years ago can attend the same school as an in-state resident with financial aid. With UCB receiving billions of federal money a year, one could argue that they should give priority to citizen families. After all, its the parents who are paying the tuition (and I hope we all are BTW), and DACA parents are not citizens and they broke the law. I think its a fair question: why are non-citizen parents who broke the law and are still here illegally, treated better than citizen parents in Iowa?