@tpike12 How many immigrants do you know IRL? Legal or illegal?
Some of my SIL’s ancestors who arrived here were horse thieves and common criminals. They weren’t sent back. Some of mine came over on the Mayflower and some came over a couple of generations ago. Most were common laborers in factories or farms and were poor until the 2nd or 3rd generation made it to college. I’m glad yours were settlers and pioneers, but that’s not true for all of us. The common denominator on my side that changed lives? Getting to go to college - often on scholarship. FWIW, those who didn’t get to go certainly never got far up the economic ladder.
The incentive that matters for unauthorized (as well as authorized) immigration is jobs. The agriculture, construction, and hospitality industries could end much of the unauthorized immigration by carefully following IRCA requirements (using the convenient E-Verify system) when hiring. But they don’t, and the government seems to be unwilling to push them to do so, for whatever reason.
Jobs may have been the initial incentive back when mostly male adults were immigrating but now it’s family units which put a much greater strain on the system as they require funds for medical, education, housing etc…the fact that they know they will receive such benefits only increases the incentive. How much in educational funding is diverted from American kids to address illegal immigrant children who can’t speak English for example? I highly doubt back in the day that immigrant kids received special attention to help them learn English. As another poster mentioned the resources are finite. The fact that is better for these kids to be educated than not ignores the fact that we wouldn’t have to pay to educate them at all if 1. they didn’t come here illegally and/or 2. were required to apply to colleges as international students rather than given special treatment as DACA.
@katliamom I am commenting on free tuition to non-citizens, DACA or otherwise. If I am State U and tuition is $10,000 (we can dream), and I have 100 tuition scholarships, I need to ration them somehow. Citizenship should be part of that criteria because the State is supposed to represent it’s citizens.
Not necessarily true. From my experience, the immigrants that are here legally and have (or have plans to) obtain citizen ship are the immigrants we like to talk about making the country great. The come here and assimilate – learn the language, ride Harleys, have their kids play hockey and American football, etc. They train for skilled jobs, get skills, invest in 401ks, and send their kids to college. I have and continue to employ several. The ones here illegally, don’t do any of that. Their plans are always to “get back home.” They are simply here to take the money and run. We have had them too, using fake identification.
I am not talking about federal, but state aid, which is why I mentioned my state of residence in my initial post.
DACA and other undocumented students in NYS can get FA at the state level under the recently passed Jose Peralta Act (he was an elected official who died recently and was apparently an immigrant). https://www.suny.edu/attend/get-started/undocumented/faq/ The link is to the official SUNY.edu website that explains this. Basically, undocumented students can get FA in NYS that I think should be first made available to legal citizens, like my children. As I said, I have no issue with these students getting in-state tuition if they have lived in NYS, but they should not get FA at the expense of other kids. I am struggling to put my kids through SUNY schools because we don’t get any aid.
@techmom I’m honestly not trying to debate you. I just looked at your link and I don’t think it says what you say it does. It doesn’t say undocumented students can get FA in NY state. I think it says the opposite. It DOES state they can, in certain circumstances, get in-state tuition, but that’s not the same as FA.
My experience is totally different than yours. I’ve seen oodles of kids from elsewhere (and domestic) in school over the past 20 years. I’ve seen education do worlds of good. It’s an investment that tends to pay off quite like planting a seed. The seed costs money, but often leads to so much more in the end. Keeping capable folks poor costs money for years. It honestly doesn’t matter where those folks come from.
The majority of folks I know who try to game the entitlement system are homegrown and not at all from recent immigrants (legal or illegal). Your area could be different I suppose.
But under the current laws, those ‘investments’ will not mature because those students will not be able to work. DACA holders have SSN but other undocumented students do not. They will not be able to work legally.
Other undocumented (whether or not college educated) theoretically cannot work, but in practice probably can in industries where IRCA checks are notoriously lax, such as construction, hospitality (hotel, restaurant, golf course, resort, etc.), and agriculture.
@twoinanddone That is not true, at least in Florida:
Not clear to me what the current policy is in Virginia, but one of the bills required that the parents had filed Virginia income tax returns for three years prior to college enrollment. That is in addition to the student having attended a VA HS for at least 3 years and graduated and has either applied to become legal or will when eligible.
Thus, this is designed for working families who are paying taxes just like anyone else.
These kids are not any more eligible for aid than anyone else’s kids. If you meet the income requirements, your kids will get aid. If some of these kids have parents who make a lot of money, they won’t get aid either.
A lot of those who come here at an early age will be documented eventually. It’s not as easy as it once was, but still…Some fall genuinely in love with US citizens. The undocumented person grows up here, studies here, and falls in love with an American citizen. It’s not guaranteed that they will be able to get a green card and it’s now pretty complicated, but from my small sample, most people eventually succeed. https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/undocumented-illegal-immigrant-get-green-card-marriage-citizen-resident.html
One of my young neighbors brought in her first husband. They had a child. He left her. She then remarried to an illegal alien. She was unable to regularize his status. They are now living together in Mexico–fortunately she speaks fluent Spanish and was able to get a good job there. Eventually, after some period of years, he’ll be able to reapply to move back to the US with his American wife and American citizen child. It’s a hardship for them to have to live in Mexico, but it’s a real marriage and she’ll do what she has to do.
The immigration authorities have been tougher in their case than any other I know. That’s probably partly because he entered the US illegally as an adult and partly because her family sponsored her first husband and the same person marrying 2 different men and applying for green cards for them raises red flags, especially since the first marriage was short lived.
But assume that some rather high percentage of those who grew up here from an early age will marry US citizens and eventually regularize their status. Do you really want them to be blocked from careers? Especially if those are careers the US needs?
In my immediate neighborhood, most of the undocumented seem to be Asians rather than Hispanics. At least some are young Chinese women who came here with parents during China’s one-child policy (which, if I understand correctly, isn’t entirely gone even now.) Or they are young men who had sisters and whose parents fled to keep that sister.
They really can’t “go back” to China. In at least some cases, there is no record of the birth in China of some of the females. While they speak some dialect of Chinese, a lot of them either can’t read or write it or do so only at a very low level. And, frankly, I don’t think it’s in the best interest of the US for them to go back.
Legal status for immigration is federal law. Virginia can set the policy for instate tuition in Virginia, but that’s about it. Non-citizens can file taxes, but it is still illegal for most employers to hire them. DACA applicants have SSN and can work legally, but no one can apply for DACA any more so that number is fixed.
It’s a mess, that’s for sure.
If they are deported, it isn’t really their choice to go back or not.
It’s not their choice as to whether to leave the US. It’s a different matter entirely as to whether China will admit them when they arrive in China with no proof other than their physical appearance that they are Chinese.
For all the arguing across the country about this issue, the actual number of students who could realistically benefit from these programs is not huge.
If I were designing such a program, I would limit it to tuition only, for eight semesters, and only for college level courses (not remedial) with a gpa above some level, such as 2.5.
I agree with @zoosermom , as to how many students will truly be admitted. Those who are admitted will be attending school locally and will be living at home (room and board is not covered) The NYS program will most likely align with other /NYS programs including 4-years (8 semesters max aid), if you have not achieved college readiness, you start at CC. If you are not in CLIP ir have an IEP/504 plan you only have one year to become remedial free. You must achieve 15 credits a semester/30 credits a year and maintain satisfactory academic progress.
@techmom99 ,would you really want to trade the fact that you are a family of 2 wage earning professionals, who are homeowners on Long Island for the $5165 in TAP for having a 0 EFC or $5000 if you make under 125k? Would the trade off really be worth it? Plenty of the kids that I work with would love to trade places with you.
You have been fortunate enough that your children have been able to go away to college and not live at home and commute. Would you rather they not have had the experiences and opportunities that you and your husband have afforded then?
“Those who are admitted will be attending school locally and will be living at home (room and board is not covered)”
Where I live that’s the reality for more than 95% of DACA kids. They work full time, go to school part time, live at home and are too busy to even take advantage of whatever posh services (gym, pool, etc.) their generally underfunded community colleges offer.
Fact is, these kids still don’t have it easy. But laws allowing them in-state tuition at least make it easIER. They make attaining higher education possible. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Not for them, and certainly not for society at large.
This is also what I think. No one should expect easy, but if a reasonable (albeit challenging) path is offered, then we should all be supporting and applauding the people who complete it successfully. I don’t think it should be unlimited - I understand not everyone can graduate in 8 semesters, but 8 semesters of free tuition should get people making satisfactory progress close enough to do the rest themselves.
Yes, illegal immigrant college students do cost the state money when that state allows them access to those funds. That is a fact. A simple fact. If a student who is here illegally gets TAP money (NY state financial aid fund) that’s so many dollars spent that would not have been.
Since such students get no offsets from PELL and other federal funds, they could need more of the state money than a legal student in the exact same need predicament that is getting PELL and federal money before the state pitched in funds.
In NY, the standard for in state tuition and state college funds is for the student to graduate from a NY high school. I think that was a miss in part of the NY legislature because it opens funding to anyone who moved into the state and passed the GED here. But this is what those representatives voted into office by NY taxpayers passed. If it cuts too much into other needs, or enough NYers do not line the way these legislators are conducting business, out they should go in the next elections. That’s the way things work.
It has nothing to do with blame and fault on part of these students. It’s s fact of life, the whole family pays when a member commits transgression. We don’t have special funding programs for the too many kids whose parents go to jail, for example.
I mentioned upthread that a lot of local colleges do not charge OOS rates to anyone with local addresses. In my area, anyone with a local address can take courses at a state school paying in state and local rates. In order to matriculate, at least a semester of tuition has to go through certain standards check. So an illegal kid can still get a degree at mostly in state rates. I noticed the same situation in PA, GA, and FL. This is at the lesser known state schools, not the flagships.