Tulane or some big name schools like Duke? Creative premedical scholars program?

<p>Hi,
I'm an international student and I've been accepted to Tulane, Miami, VA Tech, GA Tech, UIUC, purdue, waiting for Duke, Rice, Cornell, UVA, Carleton.</p>

<p>I never thought about wanting to go to Tulane instead of the more well-known schools like Duke and Ivies, but after some research, the college decision has become more complicated.</p>

<p>I personally want to go to medical school, but as an international without a green card, it's really hard to get in Med School anywhere, so my intended majors are all engineering, which I'm good at and can get me a job easily. But After looking into Tulane's Creative Premedical Scholar's program, and exchanging 15 emails with the advisor at Tulane, I figured out that International students are eligible for the program. And if I do get in the program after sophomore year, I'll have a guaranteed admission to Tulane medical. This makes the chance of me getting into med school go from under 1% to over 50%.</p>

<p>The only thing is I don't know whether I'll regret going to Tulane if I don't get into this program. If I choose Tulane over Duke, will I regret? Is the academics and reputation of Tulane at the undergrad level far from Duke? I know ranking doesn't say much and the current ranking of Tulane is effected by the data of Katrina years, but what exactly is Tulane at compared to Duke and Ivies?</p>

<p>Can anyone give me some advice and suggestions? If anybody knows more about the creative premedical scholars program, and maybe the chances of getting in, please help me with it too! I really appreciate this! Thanks in advance!</p>

<p>I know many people who go to higher-ranked schools, and I really don’t find the quality of education at Tulane to be far behind at all. At Tulane and at Duke one can challenge oneself academically if he really applies himself; I find whether or not a student is challenged at a school to typically be a personal decision. </p>

<p>As a high school senior, I really know nothing of the medical school program, though. I think I’ll let fallenchemist address that issue :)</p>

<p>Thanks for the reply Diomedes!
I know I can challenge myself anywhere, but what exactly makes them rank Tulane under Duke? Is there any part of Tulane that’s not as good?</p>

<p>Peer assessment and student retention are important to the rankings. Post Katrina, Tulane has to overcome certain misperceptions in order to gain its “rightful” place.</p>

<p>yeah, so the ranking doesn’t say much about the academics or opportunity the student may have. It’s more objective than subjective? Then it may well go up after a few years. But what’s the difference between a top 10 Duke and a possibly Top 30 Tulane exactly?</p>

<p>guhengshuo - You ask a very complicated question (actually a couple of questions), with multiple layers in the answer. This could be discussed for pages and pages and for hours. But here is my opinion.</p>

<p>Well first let’s get the ranking question out of the way. As idad says, peer assessment is one big factor, which translates to a large degree to reputation and national coverage, both sports and otherwise. Duke certainly deserves its reputation, I think Tulane gets a little underrated in this regard. Partly it is still people being ignorant that Tulane was not as affected by Katrina as the parts of New Orleans they kept showing on the news. But the closure for a semester, along with those pictures of New Orleans, led to the mistaken impression that Tulane was barely surviving. Maybe the reorganization of the university at that point, which included cutting some programs that were not as strong or popular to begin with, added to that impression. The simple truth is that Tulane has improved fairly dramatically the last 4 years, both in student quality and academic programs. Unfortunately that takes longer to get through to Tulane’s “peers” than it seems to take for students to realize it.</p>

<p>Then there are the statistical factors like retention and graduation rates. This has really hurt Tulane because of Katrina aftereffects. USNWR should be ashamed for not correcting for this in Tulane’s case. It certainly cannot be a reflection of the quality of a university that a flood decided to close the entire city for a time.</p>

<p>Should Duke be ranked above Tulane? Sure, given the way people usually think of the kinds of factors that go into rankings any objective person would tell you that Duke should be where it is. I also think that any objective person would tell you that Tulane should be ranked anywhere from 15-20 places higher than it is. But this gives more credence and attention to the whole ranking phenomenon than it possibly deserves. The simple fact is they are both wonderful schools that are academically superior in both faculty and students, where you can get a first rate college experience.</p>

<p>Duke is more well known nationally and internationally than Tulane, for a few reasons. Certainly the great basketball team is part of it, but that’s not to take away from the fact that Duke is considered a higher level institution academically than Tulane. Why? Well, probably foremost because the average Duke student has higher academic accomplishments coming in. Tulane is at a very very high level, Duke is even higher. Will you learn different things in class at Duke than at Tulane? In general, no. Basic calc is basic calc, freshman chem is freshman chem, so on and so forth. The profs all know their stuff at each place. In fact there are some former Tulane profs at Duke and vice-versa. The big difference is the level of competition (and I mean this in a good, non-threatening way) from your classmates. Just like it was far easier for me when I took a couple of classes at the local state university, even though we used exactly the same books as at Tulane, I imagine that there is some difference between Duke and Tulane in the same way. That’s just the way selectivity goes. However, I would also venture to say the difference between Duke and Tulane is smaller than the difference between Tulane and the state university I am talking about. At Tulane there are still plenty of really accomplished students that could have attended Duke and/or other ranked schools, but chose Tulane for any number of reasons. My D, jym’s S, idad’s S and many others, just to name a few. The point is, you can indeed have a very high level academic experience at Tulane.</p>

<p>Finally, your question as to whether to attend Tulane and major in a non-science area in the hopes of getting into the Creative Scholar’s Program. This is a really, really tough thing to answer. I have had a half-dozen thoughts on this just while typing, but I think in the end the right answer is to go to the school that you think is best for you overall. You are obviously taking a risk in the sense you might pick a major you normally wouldn’t just to try for this program. I don’t think you are taking a risk at all if you pick Tulane, I just don’t know about the wisdom of putting your eggs all in this basket. On the other hand, since you have to take 4 chem courses, a bio course and whatever other pre-med requirements there are by the end of your sophomore year, if you did not get in the program you could always switch to a science major I suppose.</p>

<p>So I have tried to give my opinion on what you directly asked, but I still think the main point is to go where you think you have the best chance for academic and personal success.</p>

<p>The last part of my post got cut off somehow. I will repost starting with the last paragraph.</p>

<p>So I have tried to give my opinion on what you directly asked, but I still think the main point is to go where you think you have the best chance for academic and personal success. If this means that the Creative Scholars is one of the few ways that give you a decent chance into a US medical school, then I suppose that is the way to go. I really don’t see much downside for you in that sense. If the Creative Scholars Program doesn’t work out, you could also probably still major in Chemical or Biomedical Engineering if you can stay an extra year. A Tulane degree will do fine for you, and you could go to any top grad school from there to further polish your credentials.</p>

<p>@Fallenchemist: Thank you so much for the lengthy explanation for my question! thanks for your time! It indeed makes me feel better about choosing Tulane over some more selective schools. The current ranking system doesn’t really say much about the school, especially in Tulane’s case.
However, the creative premedical scholar’s program gave me the reason to go to Tulane, whereas there’s not even any other reason than the ranking system for me to go to Duke or Cornell. If the academic is fairly similar, and the premed at tulane may even be better, then what the heck? It may seem like switching from an engineering major to maybe business is tough, but for me the only reason I chose engineering or any kind of science is that it’s easier for me and may get me a job easier. But if all can work out, and I can get into a med school, it would be better than being an engineer. Challenging myself with something I’m not normally good at isn’t a bad thing.
So the question basically comes to what should I major in? I’m thinking A.B. Freeman school of business, maybe the finance or management program. Since it maybe useful in the future. With a MD and BSM, wouldn’t that make me heading to some executive position in a hospital or something? I can’t really think about any other non-science major that would do me any good in any way.
If I don’t get in the program, I still can switch to some other major that would get me a job easily, like engineering or public Health, something like that for my junior and senior year. I guess I won’t really loose in any way, except for not being able to go somewhere with a really really high ranking and reputation. That might effect me in someway if I don’t get into the program.
After all, I guess after your assurance in the qualify of education at Tulane, I’m more comfortable with “risking” Tulane now! I’ll probably be another example like yourD, jym’s S, dad’s S, who choose Tulane over way higher ranked schools for some reason.
Although, probably getting into Harvard would still make me change my decision, haha! Not saying it’s possible though!</p>

<p>guhengshuo - LOL, I understand. Ivies are often a gamechanger. But not always. I am reasonably confident that some of those I named besides my D got into Ivies as well. I also could have named some current students such as gabby, tulane14 and many others that post here who had superior records coming out of high school, equal to most students accepted to Ivies.</p>

<p>I like your idea of a business major if that is an area in which you have interest anyway. I can personally attest to the value of a technical background and a business background. My Tulane degree is in chemistry, then after grad school in chem I got an MBA. I have had a very interesting and rewarding career on the business side of science, so a bit similar to what you are saying. Lots of possibilities combining those areas. Who knows, Tulane is such an exciting place to be a finance major these days you might give up medicine altogether!</p>

<p>Best of luck in your acceptances over the next couple of weeks, and in your college career whatever you decide.</p>

<p>Your decision should be heavily influenced by your level of certainty of career choice. If you are completely determined to become a physician, I would recommend Tulane–especially since it is so extremely difficult for internationals to get accepted to medical school in the US. Even extremely bright students doing regular premed at Harvard can get derailed from their goal by a few difficult courses with steep grading curves. </p>

<p>Tulane not only has the Creative Medical Scholars program that you mentioned, but they also have another combined BS-MD medical program (TAP-TP). I’m not certain of the details, but you can check out the TULANE ACCELERATED PHYSICIAN TRAINING PROGRAM (TAP-TP, 6+1) at their website [Tulane</a> University - School of Medicine - Office of Admissions - taptp](<a href=“http://tulane.edu/som/admissions/tulane-accelerated-physician-program.cfm]Tulane”>http://tulane.edu/som/admissions/tulane-accelerated-physician-program.cfm). You should contact them to find out if internationals can apply to this program as well. </p>

<p>The two different combined medical programs have different thrusts, so you should determine which program is best for you. I believe that with the TAP-TP program, you must enter Tulane as a freshman, and turn down your other college acceptances. Then I think you apply to the program in September of freshman year, and are notified of acceptance by November 1. Conceivably, if you didn’t get into that program, you could consider a transfer application to a more prestigious undergraduate school if you were not happy at Tulane.</p>

<p>The dean of the Tulane School of Medicine is great! Dr. Sachs came from one of the Harvard hospitals. He is very bright, compassionate, and innovative. So I believe that Tulane’s medical school will rise in the rankings. New Orleans could be a great place to go to medical school–with much hands-on experience that residencies value. If you are a service-minded individual, then Tulane might be a great match for you. (On the other hand, like many medical schools, the hospital is in maybe not the safest of neighborhoods.)</p>

<p>If you are unsure of your career goals, then I’m not sure which school would be best for you. You’ll have to check out the programs and determine the best fit for you. Of the schools on your list, my daughter and I visited Tulane, Duke, and Rice. All three schools have some really great qualities. It is easy to get excited about the possibilities at these three.</p>

<p>Good luck in your decision!</p>

<p>By the way, Tulane is awesome at Public Health. It is one of the few undergraduate schools in the nation that has a BS in Public Health.</p>

<p>Thanks mamatata,
I think I’ll aim for the Creative program, since my stats right now probably won’t get me the 6+1. But if I do good the first couple years of college, I’ll have a better shot at the early acceptance programs offered at Tulane!
I’m almost certain that I will be going to Tulane now!</p>

<p>Congrats guheng. I am sure you will enjoy it immensely.</p>

<p>Thanks.
And I’ll go to the destination Tulane on April 19th, hope that will re-assure my decision!</p>

<p>juheng-</p>

<p>My s strongly considered the premed scholars program, but wanted to major in chemistry, so he took all the required premed courses (plus all the required core courses) and also pursued a double major in Chemistry and History. What he found, though he is still considering med school as an option, is that he loved psychology and psychopharmacology, as well and engineering, so has shifted to a major in Chem E and minor in psychology. Having done that in his sophomore year it made fittting all the required classes in a bit tricky (and he took some classes out of sequence, like Thermo III before Thermo II-- shhhh, it was supposed to be a prereq), so he plans to take a few classes at our local Flagship tech U this summer (it is one of the schools you have been accepted to).</p>

<p>Question for you-- have you talked to the Med school to see if you are a candidate for the Tulane Accellerated program (TAP-TP 6+1) program? [Tulane</a> University - School of Medicine - Office of Admissions - Special Programs](<a href=“http://tulane.edu/som/admissions/special-programs.cfm]Tulane”>http://tulane.edu/som/admissions/special-programs.cfm) YOu would major in Molecular and Cellular Biology and then after a year of volunteer service (third year) go into med school as your final year of college. The program was just beginning the year my s was a sophomore so he didnt pursue it, but it might fit your needs to a T! Good luck!</p>

<p>** OOps I see someone else mentioned the 6+1 program. Also look into working on the TEMS (Tulane EMS). Very rewarding opportunity.</p>

<p>So, Jym626,
I thought double major wasn’t allowed if someone wants to apply to the creative program, is that true?
Also, as of the TAP-TP, I’m not really that interested. I’d rather go the normal route and enjoy my college experience. That program leaves me no alternative choice. With the Creative, I can major in business and if I get in the program, I’ll be better off since a MD with a business degree is valuable in the career. If I don’t get in the program, I can still probably do Chem E and finish off the Finance Major that I’m interested in too.
So I guess I won’t loose in any way. BTW, you asked me on another thread about the Duke acceptance. I got the Likely Letter, which surprised me a lot. So I’m expecting to get into Duke.</p>

<p>guheng,
All I can say is what my DS said when he considered the creative scholars program- that he was going to major in History and Chemistry. I think the fellow he stayed with during his overnight visit before he came to Tulane (who was last years student body president) double majored and did creative scholars. I could be wrong (its been known to happen, LOL) and they could have changed the rules (my DS was a freshman in 2008). Maybe they told him he couldt double major and that swayed his decision. Not 100% sure. But I do know his original plan was to double major in Chem and History.</p>

<p>Congrats on the Duke likely letter, and of your Tulane decision! My s turned down Emory for Tulane.</p>

<p>We just came back from the Honors weekend and the question was raised with regard to the Creative Scholars program. Yes, if you double major and one of the majors is non science then you can apply to the Creative Scholars program. I, too, think its a great program and I liked the fact that there is no cut off in the number of kids they will take each year. The bottom line is that if you meet the requirements to get in, then you get in.</p>

<p>Go to Tulane. You will find that we are just as good as any of the “big names” and you will enjoy your college experience more.</p>

<p>RisingChemist, r u the son of FallenChemist or something? The name makes me think that way! haha</p>