Tweaking the list?

College Search & Selection
21

@pickledginger Drexel U, in Philly, has an excellent Honors program, and offers merit $, as well. Also in Philly, in a much more economically challenged area than Drexel or UPenn, is Temple University, a quasi PA public. My youngest D just completed her freshman year and loved it. It was on her list as a safety school, as she qualified for their formerly automatic presidential full tuition scholarship. They still offer the scholarships, but they are now competetive.

She fell in love with Temple when we attended one of the accepted students days. We were all blown away by all of the staff and students we met that day. D had a great experience in the honors program, with an extra honors advisor and excellent honors courses that she took. We were concerned that she might have some large class sizes, since Temple is fairly large, but her largest classes had about 40 students. She reported that her professors were all excellent.

The honors dorm is very nice, and honors students in good standing are guaranteed housing there. The area surrounding TU is not great, but the University seems to be expanding outward gradually over time, and there has been an uptick in local redevelopment. There are nice little local restaurants and shops easily accessible to students as well as good access to public transportation and central Philly, with historic sites, shopping, more upscale restaurants, etc.

Temple U is definitely in an area where you must be aware of your surroundings, be street savvy, no walking alone at night, etc. Security escorts are available into the wee hours, and the University works hard to keep students safe. My D had no issues, and has learned a lot about the challenges facing many outside of the insulated suburban bubble she grew up in.

22

Also in suburban PA, but fairly close to Philly, is Ursinus College, one of the colleges that change lives, CTCL.org schools. It is small, approx 2000 students, but is a lovely school, with nice opportunities for high stats students. My oldest D, who chose UR, was accepted to Ursinus with a nice merit award. She also applied and was accepted to Lafayette, which I think you were looking at for your son, a very nice school, also.

23

Was your son a Natl. Merit Semifinalist? If he did as well on the PSAT as he’s done on the SAT. I’d imagine that he might be. If so, USC (California) might be a good consideration as they have automatic half tuition scholarships for NMFs.

I second both Rice and Wash U.

24

@pickledginger, With regard to DC, although I was opposed to my children applying to any Catholic schools, when I learned more about Georgetown, I relaxed my objection. And after a visit yesterday, I think it seems pretty nearly perfect for my son (other than the warm climate). Your son might want to take a closer look.

25

James Madison University in VA meets many criteria… not in an urban area, though… although about 2ish hours to DC and Richmond, 6ish hours to NYC…

OOS Tuition, Room, Board and Fees under 40,000 per year. Currently, full time tuition covers up to 21 credits per semester without additional costs.

Undergraduate focused university (approximately 20,000 students) with lots of opportunities for undergrads to be involved in research, internships, and independent projects. Strong Political Science, Media Arts, Communication, etc… High percentage of students study abroad and/ or do service learning projects. There is active Greek life for those who choose to be involved, but not a huge presence on campus for students not involved in the Greek organiztions. Honors College with housing, honors specific courses, opportunities for honors study abroad seminars, honors thesis, etc…

With his stats he may qualify for a Madison Award for Academic Excellence… would also suggest applying for the competitive Dingledine Scholarship.

Also agree with others to look at Richmond, American, Georgetown… maybe also College of Charleston.

26

@mamag2855, thanks for the Drexel info. He does like Philly. I had thought Drexel wasn’t really residential, but I see that it has implemented a 2-year residency requirement, has honors dorms for freshmen, and has quite a few interesting academic offerings (including a minor in architecture, which isn’t something I’ve seen before). I think the co-op/internship option would be really good for him. We will have to do more research on merit awards - the school’s scholarship page isn’t very specific. I will also look more into Temple. I’m glad your daughter found a good fit! I understand Ursinus has a very appealing campus and generous merit . . .it was on his list at one point and then came off due too maybe being a little less serious academically than he would like and not urban enough.

@Twinsmama, I feel the same way about Georgetown myself, but he’s steering clear of schools where merit aid is unavailable or unreachable. Also, even if he could get in and miraculously got merit aid, I think it would be too preppy for him.

@KatM, thanks for the info!

@LoveTheBard, he was a point away from what I understand will be the CA cutoff, unfortunately,

I really appreciate all of the thoughtful suggestions!!

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@mamag2855 , I would love to know where your child/children applied and where they were accepted, with what merit aid, if you would be willing to share that info.

28

Thank you so much to all the people who responded to this post and to those who PMd me. I really appreciate your valuable ideas and insight. CC is such a great resource!!

29

@LoveTheBard and @MrSamford2014, I wanted to let you know that Rice has been officially added to the list, which is something I think would never have happened if not for your suggestions and description of Houston. Thanks!

30

@pickledginger, my daughter’s final four were Cornell, UCLA, Wash U, and Rice–great schools all. After a fair bit of wavering, she opted for Rice over Wash U, despite that fact that this meant sacrificing the “prestige” of a merit scholarship for a straight-up financial aid offer from Rice. (Interestingly, this offer also made Rice cheaper for us than UCLA, despite our daughter’s in-state status.)

She has been very pleased with her experience–both academically and socially–at Rice. Houston is an ethnically diverse, culturally vibrant (it’s not NYC, but then neither is Chicago or LA), and economically dynamic city. Rice is “in” the city, close enough to enjoy its benefits, without being “of” it. The lovely, heavily wooded campus (with architectural similarities to UCLA, Scripps, Stanford, etc.) remains something of its own world. Like most student bodies, the one at Rice skews left, but I can’t imagine anyone–of any political persuasion or cultural affinity–feeling grossly out of place at Rice or somehow excluded from its collective life. The students strike me as tolerant in the best sense of the term.

You might also want to note that Rice once again did very well in the Princeton Review’s annual rankings, ending up ranked #2 in the nation for Happiest Students (down from #1 last year), #1 for Overall Quality of Life, and #1 for Lots of Class/Race interaction. I hope that you and your son have the opportunity to visit in person!

31

@MrSamford2014, thanks for the great information. I am thinking that I might make a Rice visit my one mandatory parent visit, since my son has a Texas hang up (not wanting to offend anyone - it’s just the reality at this moment in his life).

We’ll also take another look at WashU’s merit scholarships. I had thought there wasn’t much merit aid available there, but I am going to double check on that. I hear many good things about WashU, but have been under the impression that merit is not really an option, but it’s worth another look to see if there’s something we’ve missed that might apply to him.

32

@pickledginger
As you may already know most top schools do not give merit aid with a few exceptions.
USC sounds like a good option. Your son seems to like big Unis, and they give great half and full tuition Scholarships. Tulane and Wake Forest are also a great option of you son with great merit aid.
Have you looked into Emory and the Scholars program?

33

@MrSamford2014 - what is her major? I’ve heard good things about Rice but also hear it’s very stem focused and the OP’s son I believe doesn’t want to major in a stem field, at least for now.

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@pickledginger - I’m glad that Rice made the cut. The little I got to see of it (and I mean little – I did a swan dive just as I arrived to the admissions office for their open house and dislocated my shoulder, so all I got to see was the ER at Memorial. Excellent medical care there, I have to say. The staff at Rice were exceedingly kind – they checked up on me a couple of times and offered to send a shuttle to get me to the airport the next day; my daughter went back to her regularly scheduled diversity weekend and left very, very impressed).

While its strengths lie in STEM fields, Rice does have very solid programs in the humanities and social sciences, and the faculty seemed very involved with the students. There have been a few threads about the humanities at Rice and my D knows someone who majored in sociology and loved it there (he turned down either Yale or Stanford for Rice with merit, if memory serves…my D did not, however). Rice’s price tag is a bit lower than many schools, too, so that helps.

He should try to work on his interviewing and skills – they’ll come in handy both in college admissions and in life. The scholarship weekends are great experiences. My daughter became much more comfortable over time with them.

How about the University of Chicago? You can’t do much better for econ, it’s in a great (albeit cold) city, and they do give merit.

Vanderbilt doesn’t have an interview process for their Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship (there is a separate application for it, though). There is a strong Greek presence and it is a southern school, so there’s that.

You’ve got some good schools on your list. If he doesn’t mind the midwest, Grinnell and Kenyon are great schools that award merit (definitely not urban, though). Oberlin is also a good choice. And Davidson is another possibility, esp. if he can be nominated for the Belk or get the Chambers ($25K) scholarship.

Many of the schools that give merit tend to be in the midwest and the south, few are in urban areas, and fewer still are top 20 schools. Oftentimes, the big merit scholarships are used to try to lure kids that would otherwise go to HYPS; it can be harder to get full tuition scholarships than it is to get into HYPS. Your S has great scores, so that’s a start.

Claremont McKenna has very strong economics and gives some merit (but not a lot).

35

@ love the bard (and others) on Rice -" my daughter went back to her regularly scheduled diversity weekend and left very, very impressed"

How diverse did you find Rice on diversity day, did diversity day itself have an equal amount of urms, whites, asians, etc. and did you think the was overall campus was integrated as opposed to races hanging out together (comment made about Vanderbilt)?

Out here in silicon valley Rice gets overlooked, I’d like to tell folks more good things about it. Thx.

36

@theloniusmonk I believe that I might have been the one that made the comment about Vanderbilt on another thread…(I wasn’t the only one whose DC sensed a lack of integration, but another parent’s S did not share that experience).

My daughter found Rice to be an accepting, diverse campus that felt much more integrated and diverse than Vanderbilt did. My guess is that it is a combination of a variety of factors having to do with the non-existence of Greek life at Rice coupled with the residential college system and the communities that it creates (esp. in light of residential colleges’ practice of self-governance). Residential colleges’ efforts at community-building often provide ideal environments for nurturing diverse and inclusive communities. I also think that Houston is also much more diverse than Nashville, which might have something to do with how that may or may not be reflected on campus.

For the record,

Vandy is 59% White, 14% Asian/Pacific Islander, 11% African-American, 10% Latino, 8% International;

Rice is 37% White, 24% Asian; 7% African-American; 14% Latino, 12% International,

Rice was ranked No. 1 Princeton Review for having lots of race/class Interaction, and consistently ranks among the highest with respect to having the happiest students. It’s a world-class research institution that is highly respected in academia and business.

Here are some thoughtful reflections from a graduate a few years ago:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/rice-university/917772-some-reflections.html

Perhaps one of the reasons Californians don’t think about Rice is that there are so many great options here – the UCs, Stanford, the Claremont colleges, Caltech., but I think that Rice presents a great alternative to schools on the east coast and in the midwest.

37

This conversation has been helpful in clarifying some things that are important to my son . . . socioeconomic diversity is important, and racial interaction is very desirable to him. Vanderbilt was never in the running for him (too Greek as well as being in the south).

The issue of diversity (socioeconomic and racial) has taken on greater weight for him as he has come back from a summer institute that was attended by kids who said were given Range Rovers in high school and had multiple houses in resort locations. As I mentioned before, he attends a diverse public school and is very uncomfortable with conspicuous displays of wealth. We are fortunate to be in a relatively comfortable financial position and we have saved money, so we won’t qualify for any need-based aid, but the idea of being surrounded by people like the ones he attended the summer institute with is troubling him.

@lovethebard, interesting that you mention University of Chicago. We had not been looking at any Ivy/Ivy-equivalent schools due to a variety of things, including lack of merit aid, my son’s indifference to “prestige,” and the assumption that he would not be a viable candidate due to lack of non-academic credentials. However, Chicago has always held a special place in our imagination because of the commitment to diversity and the whole “life of the mind” reputation. However, he is not sure about how much of a challenge he wants to take on academically. He dealt with severe (but now largely controlled, thankfully) anxiety-related disorders for most of elementary school and middle school, and we still worry that a really rigorous environment might be bad for his mental health. He has managed a full load of AP classes with no problem whatsoever, and he truly enjoys intellectual development and conversations, but I don’t know how it would be for him in an environment where he might have to pace himself more than most people, such as Chicago. I wish I had a crystal ball! I feel that, one the one hand, he could blossom in a place with access to people who can really push and challenge him, regardless of how “well” he does academically, or, alternatively, it could be in his best interest to be somewhere he can carry on as he has, being a solid student who works hard in class but has more room and time to develop other aspects of himself. I don’t know that there is a right answer. Ultimately, he will have to decide and see how it all plays out.

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@pickledginger - Yes, it is a delicate balancing act, isn’t it? And, ultimately, it’s your son that’s going to have to figure out how best to balance things in his life and what his priorities are intellectually, academically, and socially. And, oftentimes, compromises have to be made, but ultimately, he’ll end up where he belongs.

D went to a private school with many wealthy families with trend toward pre-professionalism and a dearth of students seeking to revel in “the life of the mind.” While there was a cadre of high achieving students, she was ultimately frustrated with the lack of intellectual vitality among the student body at her H.S. After spending last summer at TASP, she realized that what she wanted more than anything was a diverse group of intellectually curious, bright, engaged, and collaborative students. And, of course, we were seeking merit and/or hoping for some FA. She knew that she did NOT want a highly competitive, cut-throat environment, but a more nurturing and collaborative one. She, too, has had issues with stress as well as some health issues, so she has had to learn how to juggle things in her life (which sometimes meant not doing as many activities or taking as many classes as she might have otherwise liked to have done). Initially, she hadn’t really considered tippy top (HYPSC) schools, but that changed over time (and with acceptances ;-))

What I suggest is for your son to cast a wide net and to try to spend some time at some the schools he’s interested in. The notion of not having academic credentials went out the window with a 1590 SAT. With a solid academic record, superb essays and excellent recommendations, he should do pretty well with admissions and, hopefully, merit.

And you’re fortunate that you’re instate for CA publics.

Among the schools that you mentioned originally, Macalester, Occidental, Pitt, and Oregon Honors all sound like good possibilities. (And Rice, of course). How would he feel about a rural school? If that’s not a turnoff, I’d suggest looking at Oberlin, Grinnell, and Kenyon. (Grinnell and Kenyon are free to apply and don’t require essays – although Grinnell will hit you with asking you to do a 100 word “Why Grinnell?” after you’ve applied). I’d consider CMC and/or Pitzer which both give merit, but perhaps not enough to make them worthwhile. You might want to look at Brandeis outside Boston – they offer up to $17.5K merit (a drop in the bucket off a $70K price tag). George Washington, in addition to its Foggy Bottom urban location with what I would hardly consider a campus, also has a Mount Vernon campus with an honors college dorm. And D.C. is a great town. But even with merit, both G.W. and American are not inexpensive. I’d also look at Whitman – great school, but not sure if Walla Walla is in your son’s radar.

One school my D applied to that I think is a hidden gem is the New College of Florida – it’s a public honors college in Sarasota, very small and highly intellectual (no grades - written evaluations, senior theses, etc.) Not sure if their merit is strictly tied to NMF – it may be.I know how your son feels about Texas, so I won’t say UT’s Plan II Honors (if you’re going to lobby for Texas, Rice is a better bet). Another excellent honors program with the possibility for scholarships is the Banneker/Key at U Maryland; applications are due Nov. 1st. And, if S’s school is a nominating school, you can’t beat UVA’s Jefferson (that will take some power interviewing, however and is very, very hard to get). Emory Scholars and Richmond Scholars are also quite generous scholarships. (Altanta is in the south, but it’s pretty metropolitan.) And I know you’re looking into Wash U. (another personal favorite among D17’s merit options).

One last option – has S considered any Canadian schools? UBC, U. Toronto, and McGill are great schools and less $$ – even for Americans – than some private schools here.

As for U.Chicago, yes, it is an amazing school and belongs in your radar. It is probably is pretty intense and the quarter system might add to the stress, but, like anything, it can be manageable. And its reputation of “where fun goes to die” has slowly dissipated. And it is an amazing school. Merit may be hard to get, but it’s worth a shot. Again, his essays are going to be crucially important there – and everywhere!

39

“Perhaps one of the reasons Californians don’t think about Rice is that there are so many great options here – the UCs, Stanford, the Claremont colleges, Caltech., but I think that Rice presents a great alternative to schools on the east coast and in the midwest.”

That’s definitely part of it but for some reason Rice has a prestige issue out here, and while we would love to think that students don’t select colleges based on prestige they do, and for sure most of their parents do. BTW what is TASP?

40

@theloniusmonk - Rice should NOT be a concern even for the more prestige-hungry. It’s consistently ranked in the top 20 among top universities and is a very, very good school. It’s well respected among employers and academics, which is what should matter more. No, it doesn’t have the name recognition of the ivies or the prestige of HYPSMC or some of the other ivies, but it’s a darn good school, esp. for someone in the sciences, but even for those in other fields.

TASP stands for the Telluride Association Summer Program – it’s a 6 week, fully-funded, self-governed living/learning highly prestigious humanities programs for rising seniors (you apply in 11th grade). It has a less than 5% admit rate and, like RSI, the Governors School programs, and some other funded research programs, are highly regarded by Adcoms.