Two Up-and-Comers to Watch: U Miami and U Maryland

College Search & Selection
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<p>A suggestion to prospective college students---you may want to take a closer look at U Miami and U Maryland. </p>

<p>Over the holiday weekend, I had dinner with a couple whose son is a freshman at U Miami. He loves the place, in and out of the classroom, and the parents are impressed by the size of the classes and the quality and diversity of his student peers. </p>

<p>Another couple at the table has a junior girl at U Maryland who, likewise, is having an excellent experience. It’s gotten much more difficult to get into UM and the daughter claims that the selectivity is showing up in the classroom. The parents, of course, love this and also love the pricetag for OOS students---it is darn hard to beat. </p>

<p>The conversation turned to how these colleges have improved their selectivity and the resources that they offer to undergraduate students such as good class sizes and good rates of financial aid. Both families were very proud of their progeny for attending these colleges that are fast improving their profile among the nation’s finest colleges. </p>

<p>U Miami and U Maryland are good examples of how lower tiers of colleges are improving their competitive position. To better understand this, compare how they measure up to a more historically prominent and higher-ranked college (U Michigan). The differences are modest and, in several instances, favor U Miami and U Maryland. </p>

<p>RETENTION & GRADUATION DATA </p>

<p>Freshmen Retention Rate , 6-Yr Grad Rate<br>
93.0% , 82% , UM
96.0% , 88% , UM
89.8% , 77% , UM</p>

<p>STUDENT SELECTIVITY DATA </p>

<p>Avg GPA , Acceptance Rate<br>
3.9 , 39.2% , UM
3.8 , 42.2% , UM
4.0 , 38.6% , UM</p>

<p>Top 10% Students , Top 25% Students<br>
73% , 91% , UM
92% , 99% , UM
66% , 90% , UM</p>

<p>ACT 25 , ACT 75 , % scoring 30+<br>
na , na , na , UM
27 , 31 , 44% , UM
27 , 31 , 42% , UM</p>

<p>CR 25 , CR 75 , % scoring 700+ , % scoring 600+<br>
570 , 680 , 17% , 66% , UM
580 , 690 , 22% , 73% , UM
580 , 680 , 20% , 71% , UM</p>

<p>Math 25 , Math 75 , % scoring 700+ , % scoring 600+<br>
600 , 700 , 30% , 76% , UM
640 , 740 , 46% , 86% , UM
610 , 700 , 27% , 81% , UM</p>

<p>CLASSROOM DATA </p>

<p>% of classes < 20 students , % of classes >50 students , Stu/Fac Ratio , % classes taught by TA<br>
35.2% , 13.7% , 18/1 , 15% , UM
45.9% , 17.8% , 15/1 , 14% , UM
51.7% , 5.4% , 11/1 , 8% , UM</p>

<p>COST & INSTITUTIONAL FIN'L SUPPORT </p>

<p>OOS T&F , % Who Borrow , Amount Borrowed , % getting Fin'l Aid , % of Need met for OOS<br>
$23,990 , 44% , $20,091 , 48% , 61% , UM
$35,391 , 46% , $25,586 , 50% , 60% , UM
$36,188 , 56% , $24,500 , 46% , 88% , UM</p>

<p>SIZE & STUDENT DIVERSITY </p>

<p>Undergraduates<br>
26431 , UM
25994 , UM
10422 , UM</p>

<p>Black Asian Hispanic White<br>
13% , 15% , 6% , 64% , UM
6% , 12% , 4% , 71% , UM
8% , 5% , 23% , 57% , UM</p>

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<p>Wow, what a coincidence that you happened to be dining at the same table with parents of students of two quite different but yet up and coming schools that are located a thousand miles apart. Can some of the other school partisans on CC dine with you for New Years to gain favorable reference for their schools too? (joking)</p>

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<p>Miami is pretty expensive. I think it is a decent school, but you really have to want the Miami (city of) vibe. My daughter went to a conference there while she was a senior in high school and didn’t like the campus. She thought it felt very sterile. </p>

<p>I think UMd has always been over-looked on this forum.</p>

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<p>Um, you might want to clarify the statistics. I can’t tell which stats are for which school because all of them are labeled UM. Coincidentally, all of them have the same acronym since they’re all University of M_____). :P</p>

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<p>Coureur,
Haha. Well, other schools were represented as well, but these were the surprises for me. Also, the parents were from the same state. </p>

<p>I already have dinner/party plans for New Years (including with parents of students from Davidson, Denison, U North Carolina, Air Force Academy). If I learn anything new, I’ll give you a full report. :)</p>

<p>Mowc,
I have some familiarity with U Miami and have been impressed with Donna Shalala’s leadership. I didn’t appreciate the depth of health research going on there and what that is doing for the school’s profile. As for the setting/vibe, I’m not wild about the architecture at the school and all of the traffic and parking problems in and near the campus, but to me the energy and diversity of the student body and the weather of south Florida are additive factors to the school. It’s not for everyone, but qualitatively I think it now deserves a higher level of attention from prospective students. </p>

<p>As for U Maryland, I didn’t realize how selective that school has become nor did I realize that a quarter of its students come from outside of Maryland. I had always thought of it as closer to a commuter school, but I was assured that that is an outdated view. I look forward to my next visit to DC and I’ll try to check it out. </p>

<p>Schrizto,
Sorry about the labeling. U Maryland is the first school, U Michigan is the 2nd and U Miami is the 3rd.</p>

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<p>As a Maryland resident, just want to add a few thoughts on University of MD. I have no issue with the academics or the fact that it is increasing its selectivity. They moved their priority deadline to 11/1 from 12/1 to handle the large volume of applicants and give them more time to evaluate applications. That being said, I would not want my sons to go there. First, there is a lot of crime immediately off-campus. I believe at least once a week I will be watching the 5pm news and see a shooting, robbery or other type of assault in College Park or nearby. Certainly not the only university with this issue, but it is a factor to consider. Then, there is the lack of housing. Upperclassmen pretty much must live off campus, again, in an area I do not perceive to be safe. There are also issues with budget cuts, leading to some classes being eliminated or growing in size. It can be hard to register for the classes you need/want to graduate. So, beware. We are in-state and will not consider it. I would really question the decision to go to UMD as an OOS student.</p>

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<p>The presumption that growing selectivity means the school is improved is tenuous. It can just be a function of location and demographics. In what other academic area has either improved much?</p>

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<p>At my school, a large public in Fairfield County, CT, Maryland is a super hot school. Tons of kids have applied in the last 2 years and many have attended over UConn. I know two who are in the honors program and they absolutely LOVE it. Plus the school’s on the Metro so you can get into DC if you want. Maryland is a huge up-and-coming school! It’s my safety and I’d be happy to go there although now I probably won’t be attending.</p>

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<p>I Completely second what Rockville mom said. There is a massive amount of crime around UMD, When I was visiting for the ATEP honors thing and 3 girls were raped. My mom is a legacy and when she went it was nice and such. I have friends, numerous friends, that advise even during the day… don’t walk anywhere. Get a bus. I realize many campus’ are like this but I, AS A MARYLAND RESIDENT, would never want to go there</p>

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<p>Regarding the issue of crime at U Maryland…as I recall, the on-campus and off campus crime rates are not much different from any large public university. You can check the crime stats on the college navigator website under campus security:
[College</a> Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/]College”>College Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics)</p>

<p>The area of College Park around campus feels very safe. You have to use good sense wherever you are, but it is not a bad neighborhood. It is a sort of urbanized suburb. The statistics just don’t support the idea that there is more crime around Maryland campus.</p>

<p>They are building more housing on campus. Housing is not really a problem for undergrads. Lots of off-campus housing nearby.</p>

<p>Maryland has become much more selective. Selectivity is the most important and effective way to improve the quality of the school. The quality of the undergrad student body is starting to catch up with the quality of scholarship from the faculty. The faculty are very productive and accomplished. Maryland has many outstanding graduate programs. A recent Nobel Prize in Physics went to a Maryland faculty member.</p>

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<p>Of the two I’d choose UMD. UMiami is cool but I’m not that big of fan of Coral Gables. Miami is a really fun city but UMiami isn’t exactly in the heart of it all.</p>

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<p>The University of Maryland is one of the nation’s better public universities, though unlike the best of them it’s difficult to identify many academic areas in which it has a truly distinguished faculty. I’d also be concerned about that 18:1 student/faculty ratio which is significantly higher than the top publics (e.g., UC Berkeley 15:1, UCLA 16:1, UVA 15:1, Michigan 15:1, UNC Chapel Hill 14:1).</p>

<p>As for the University of Miami, as a parent I’d be very concerned about that sub-90% freshman retention rate and 77% 6-year graduation rate. Especially for a smallish, high-priced private school those figures are alarming. Either kids are failing academically or in large numbers just don’t like it. Schools like that don’t attract the part-time students “on the six-year plan” that big public universities do; if they’re not retaining freshmen and not graduating kids in 6 years, warning bells should go off. Nice school in some ways, though.</p>

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<p>What does selectivity and faculty ratios have to do with strength of academic programs and overall prestige?</p>

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<p>^ A lot, in my opinion.</p>

<p>A very selective school is a school that attracts many applicants, each of whom is prepared to vote with his or her feet for the qualities of that school. A low admit rate, a high yield, and an academically strong student profile suggests that a school is good enough to attract the kinds of students who have the most options available to them. Moreover, the quality of discussions and the overall atmosphere of the place will tend to be enhanced by a higher concentration of very bright students. Professors will be able to teach at a higher level and ask more challenging questions.</p>

<p>A low student to faculty ratio generally translates to more personal attention from your professors. You can get to know each other more easily. There is more opportunity for classroom dialog with full participation by all willing students. This, in my opinion, is an essential element of good college instruction. If you are sitting in the back of a huge lecture hall and answering multiple choice test questions, you may as well be studying by yourself from a textbook or over the Internet.</p>

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<p>If by school, you include strength of student body, then by definition growing selectivity improves the school in question.</p>

<p>Assuming that a stronger student body attracts a stronger faculty, then the school improves in that way as well.</p>

<p>Strong students attract strong faculty and vice versa…</p>

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<p>For a school like UM, a strong graduate school and research funding and facilities attract faculty. Undergrad quality is way down the list.</p>

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<p>I’d been on the campus of UMD years ago visiting friends, and I toured it 4 years ago with a relative whom was a prospective applicant. It’s no news that College Park is a bit frayed at the edges. Academically, I’d agree that UMD’s strength is in its graduate programs. When other relatives recently relocated to the Washington DC area, I encouraged them to select a community in Virginia rather than the Maryland suburbs because I was thinking ahead about college for their high school-age children.</p>

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<p>“Strong students attract strong faculty and vice versa…”</p>

<p>sp1d3ysense, UCSD a strong but not brilliant student body, and yet, its faculty is one of the very best in the nation. Same with Minnesota and UDub. Schools like Tufts and Vandebilt have slightly stronger student bodies but their faculties aren’t as good. </p>

<p>What attracts top faculty to top research universities are the following:</p>

<p>1) Funding for research
2) Strength and prestige of their respective departments
3) Quality of facilities
4) Salary</p>

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<p>Alex,
Having a renown professor who is good at research but a crappy teacher does nothing for the average undergraduate student. What is the undergraduate paying his/her tuition dollars for if they get a lousy product in the classroom??</p>

<p>According to the buyers (the students) surveyed by College Pr…ow.l. er, the faculties of the schools you reference compare as follows:</p>

<p>B+ UCSD
B U Minnesota
B U Wisconsin</p>

<p>A Tufts
A Vanderbilt</p>

<p>How does CP reach its grades for Academics? They talked to over 33,700 students and got over 69,000 different reviews on the subject at 273 colleges. For CP’s process, “a high Academics grade generally indicates that professors are knowledgeable, accessible, and genuinely interested in their students’ welfare. Other determining factors include class size, how well professors communicate, and whether or not classes are engaging.”</p>

<p>The question thus becomes who do you listen to and what do you value? Unknown academics or the buying public who sample the product daily? Research reputations that have little to nothing to do with the average undergraduate or the actual experience that the student gets in the classroom?</p>

<p>BTW, the highest CP grades for Academics (A+) were given to the following:</p>

<p>Dartmouth
MIT
Princeton
Stanford
U Chicago</p>

<p>and for LACs….</p>

<p>Bowdoin
Harvey Mudd
Williams</p>

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<p>Teaching and research are not negatively correlated.</p>