<p>I realize, of course, that this is a college site, but since in theater your "type" is just as important as any kind of talent, I thought I'd start a thread on what will eventually become a very important aspect of our children's careers.</p>
<p>My dd is very small. She stands 5'1" tall, is very petite (she wears a size 5 shoe and has very little "development"), and is always cast in roles for much younger actors. For instance, this past Fall she played a 12 yo and was very convincing. Last year at 17 she played Anne Frank and all her reviews were raving about the talent of that "little girl". Needless to say, while it's great for now, my dd is concerned she'll be typed this way forever and thereby be very limited in how she'll be cast in the future.</p>
<p>What, in your opinions, are the pros and cons of being small, and how many of you will continue your dreams if constantly cast in children's roles?</p>
<p>I'd be interested to "hear" what everybody has to say on this topic.</p>
<p>Go back and look at the thread "Colleges for Musical Theater - Part 35", the later pages (6,7,8). There is a discussion about this subject that might give you some insight.</p>
<p>I believe Kristen Chenowith is about 4'11" and she certainly is doing quite well for herself! There will always be people looking for certain things in a role...hair color, height, weight, race...it's part of the business, but I believe there is work to be had if the talent is there.</p>
<p>Thanks for guiding me to that thread. However, the posters didn't answer my original reason for why I started a new thread. My main question was whether or not kids would stay in programs or stay motivated if they are continually cast in younger roles. Just how long are some of these kids going to be happy playing 12 yo's?</p>
<p>I have to make this reeeeeeal quick....I am at work and haven't been very productive thus far this morning. Geesh, CC is addicting!!</p>
<p>Whenever an actor has a physicality that sets them a part from others such as height (whether very short or very tall), weight, etc. This is something I think the actor needs to learn to work with...it is their "hook" so to speak.</p>
<p>No, it probably isn't fun being type cast in certain roles...such as your daughter always seemingly portraying the younger characters. My twins have been type cast many times. Growing up one was Peter Pan and the other played his Shadow. Let's see- they played the twin Dromios in "Comedy of Errors" and John the Baptist/Judas opposite of Jesus in "Godspell" (of course the one S got a kick out of baptizing his brother and then crucifying him in the end. LOL) Then there were the directors who wanted to see how different they could make them look....Danny vs. Eugene in "Grease".</p>
<p>Instead of looking at the downside of this, I think you and your daughter need to celebrate and embrace that she has something that sets her a part from others. All too often we dwell on things we can't change.</p>
<p>MidgetMom, I do not believe that petite girls or boys will be cast in younger roles when in a college production. These are "youth" productions so to speak, when nobody is an older adult and thus youth play lead roles. I can think of a good friend who is a third year student at CAP21 and she has played numerous leads in her life and she is 4'10". Of course, her height might limit certain roles. For instance, she would not play opposite a six foot tall leading guy most likely. Freelance's daughter who is also 4'10" and who got into several well regarded BFA programs...has played numerous leads that are not youthful in the slightest in teen-aged shows...just to name a few that I have seen her do..Sally Bowles in Cabaret, Claudia in Nine, Rose in Bye Bye Birdie, Joanna in Sweeney Todd, etc. So, in a youthful production, even petite kids can play a lead role. When I recently saw a production at BOCO, there were several males in it who were particularly short. </p>
<p>Now, when they get out into the adult world of theater, this does not mean they are gonna play 12 year olds. It means, just like any other actress, they might be typed or appropriate for certain roles and not others. This is not even just true of petite people. I already think my own kid tends to get certain types of roles and is less inclined to get other types. The same is true of the petite kids and will be when they are adults. As others said, look at Kristin Chenoweth or Kerry Butler or some other petite actresses...even Bernadette is not very tall if I recall. They might not get certain roles but there are roles out there for them, just as is the case of all "types" out there. This is going to be an issue for everyone, maybe a little more so for some people, petite ones included, than others, but I do not think these "height challenged" kids will precluded from A role in college or even beyond. I have not yet seen that in high school aged productions. As I said, we know several petite kids getting lead roles. They are not going to be cast in certain ones but there are plenty that they will be cast in and it does not mean playing a child either. </p>
<p>I realize, of course, that my dd will not always have to play 12 yo's, but she's definitely a "type" and looks extremely young on stage. On the other hand, the way she carries herself speaks for her age, although physically she looks very young. She understudied the role of Judy (I know, kinda strange since Judy is usually cast taller), in a dinner theater production of "A Chorus Line" last summer. The girl who played Judy hurt her back in rehearsals and my dd got to open the show and did several performances. While she sounded great, and is a good dancer, I have to admit she did look a little strange on that line as Judy. It just wasn't her height, it was also her "look". She's got a real dolly face with big dimples. Her agent and manager have both told her she's got a good "Disney" look and would make a good Alice, Ariel and/or Wendy. She's totally out for the bigger named princesses, but that's o.k. She's also been told she would be a good Meg in Phantom, especially since she's got so much ballet training. My younger dd, on the other hand, sounds a lot like your younger dd. She's got a big belt and is taller. She's been successful so far in dinner theatre and other professional theater. Her soprano is pretty, but her belt is her strong point, and she can belt up a storm!!!! </p>
<p>It just seems that, while ingenue roles are always needed, the taller kids with the belt are the most marketable ones and are able to work more often because they could do chorus, whereas the shorter, sopranos are going to have to really work for their career.</p>
<p>God bless.</p>
<p>I just feel sometimes that, while smaller ingenues are always needed</p>
<p>AS Soozievt has said, my D is tiny--albeit with a great big voice. She knows of course, her height will preclude her from many roles. She'll never be a Rockette, or in the ensemble of 42nd St. However, there are plenty of leggy 5'7" tall blondes who will never play Luisa in "The Fantastiks" of "Little Mary Sunshine." That's just the way it is.</p>
<p>Soozie's own D is a petite powerhouse!</p>
<p>We are acquainted with a professional actress who is also less than 5ft. tall. We saw her perform as "Ermegarde" in the "Hello Dolly Tour" (last one with Carol Channing, "Rumple Teaser" in "Cats", "Jerome Robbins Broadway", and others. She had steady work on Broadway and Road tours for a good 10 years. Now, she is in her late 30's and married to a pit musician (currently playing for "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels)". She's no longer getting those roles because there are hundreds of 18-25 year olds to step into her tiny character shoes. This actress is trying to switch gears into TV/Commercial work and finding it a little difficult. She's also teaching dance at a very good ballet school. </p>
<p>She told me that if she had to do it all over again, she would have tried to keep one foot in the TV world WHILE doing all those musicals. This would have made the transition easier. Yet she is very grateful to have worked so hard for so long.</p>
<p>BTW, her training was at BOCO. Her biggest strength was always dance.</p>
<p>Personally, in this business, looks DO matter. Actors have to know their strengths and use them to their advantage. But here's a list of very successful short actors who have worked well into their prime:</p>
<p>Joel Grey
Al Pacino
Dustin Hoffman
Bernadette (need I say who?)
Mickey Rooney
Debbie Reynolds
Bette Midler
Late greats Judy Garland & Gwen Vernon
Etc. etc. etc........</p>
<p>MidgetMom and Freelance - I'm hoping my very small and light-weight 5'4 1/2" son and your petite daughters are going to play leads opposite each other on Broadway one day!!! </p>
<p>My son loves working in theatres as a kid with adult casts, and is cast that way most of the time. He is currently Little Jake (Annie's baby brother) in Annie Get Your Gun at a dinner theatre (he is taller than the woman playing Annie!), and he is going to be 18 years old in 5 months! In recent years, he has played the little brother in Bye Bye Birdie, the little Polynesian boy in South Pacific, little brother in Father of the Bride, grandson in On Golden Pond, and older brother in Sound of Music (that was actually a 14 year old role - getting close to his age!). Most of these roles are for children, but they pull it off by putting him opposite tall men in the adult parts, even with his low male voice. He still gets paid well, and he thrives on being in shows regardless of what role he is in. I hope he'll find good roles as an adult! I think the previous postings were in answer to my question about this.</p>
<p>Catsmom: Forgive me for not getting back to you but we were out of town all yesterday with doctors and then went to opening night of my D's school musical in which she is no longer the lead ;-(. We are about to head to NYC so she can attend events at Tisch and won't be back until late tomorrow night. I am so behind on emails and such. So a very quick post to say that the musical, City of Angels, at BOCO was excellent and the talent very high quality. My D was quite impressed and it "upped" her interest in BOCO. It was professsionally done. The leads were all good singers, both the boys and the girls. There was not a lot of dance in this show to comment on that aspect too much. Sets were good, etc. It is an old theater (not sure you saw it) and not that large. I must go but we should connect again when I have time. sorry!~
Susan
(PS....SO happy for your D and I hope she goes to BOCO, if she wants to, and my daughter knows some kids going so we can mention who they are later!)</p>
<p>"Catsmom: Forgive me for not getting back to you but we were out of town all yesterday with doctors and then went to opening night of my D's school musical in which she is no longer the lead"</p>
<p>Soozie:</p>
<p>I hope your daughter had a good time last time despite not being able to perform. Just one question.....I thought Laurie and Curley were the leads in "Oklahoma". Wasn't your daughter to have played Ado Annie opposite her boyfriend who played Will Parker?</p>
<p>With regard to height and "type" -- my D is 5' tall and she's Asian. (I know that at least a couple of other moms who post here have Asian D's.) When I think about her casting prospects for the future, it's frankly the latter that concerns me more than the former. I of course wouldn't change a thing about her beautiful look! But we know for a fact that her "exotic" -- man, do I hate that word -- look cost her at least one community theatre role even though they told her they were blown away by her audition and callback. There's a lot of lip service to diversity and nontraditional casting, but the fact is that people are still tripped up by it. Fortunately that doesn't apply all the time -- e.g., the production of Sweeney Todd that my D was in last summer (in a chorus role). Not only was she the tiniest one on stage, but she also had a look that did obviously not reflect London of that era. Obviously some characters have to look a certain way -- for example, my D can sing the heck out of "Green Finch," but she's never going to be cast as the fair and golden-haired Johanna. No hard feelings there, because it can work the other way, too: if someone's looking for a Tuptim or a Kim, if a Disney theme park is looking for a Jasmine, they'll want someone who looks like my D. But aside from such typecast roles and from funky urban ensemble shows like Rent, I just hope that the future brings increased open-mindedness and increased realization that an Asian performer can be absolutely suited for a huge range of regular old human roles. After all, the world has a lot more Asian humans than white ones.</p>
<p>Things are changing in this respect these days as well. An African American was well cast as blonde Eponine's mother in a Broadway production of "Les Miz", another tall African America was Belle in a Madison Square Garden production of a "Christmas Carol". And I have seen Asians and other ethnic types in many productions. As Freelance, says there are size scale issues and I well know that type casting often occurs, but a lot of the barriers are being broken. I have seen too many ingenue, teeny tiney types packing a big whallop to worry about that. I don't believe for a moment that it will be a big handicap. For every loss, there will be a gain for her size.</p>
<p>Artsymom's words: "No hard feelings there, because it can work the other way, too: if someone's looking for a Tuptim or a Kim, if a Disney theme park is looking for a Jasmine, they'll want someone who looks like my D. But aside from such typecast roles and from funky urban ensemble shows like Rent, I just hope that the future brings increased open-mindedness and increased realization that an Asian performer can be absolutely suited for a huge range of regular old human roles. After all, the world has a lot more Asian humans than white ones."</p>
<p>Well put, Artsymom. As you know, my d is also Asian. She's had a lot of hurt because of this casting bias as well. It's happened when it should not have happened (a lead role in community theatre she was very suited for and had been led to believe she was getting and in the end racism kept her from getting it--that's a fact) and it's happened when it should have happened (sorry, but I feel the leads in certain musicals have to be white or African American, for example, because the musicals are ABOUT race--Hairspray, Ragtime, etc.)</p>
<p>BTW, I don't know about other Disney theme parks, but at Disneyland Jasmine has been Latina, not Asian.</p>
<p>My D dreams to play Kim because it's such an incredible acting role, but the limited range of the singing doesn't thrill her. She bemoans the fact that she'll never get to play Aida, and she'll never get to play any of those fun tap leads like in 42nd street or Millie. What good roles for Asian women are there in musical theatre? Older women, like Lady Tiang and Bloody Mary. Kim and Tuptim. How about the young girl in South Pacific--she never even gets to sing! Gigi has about two solo lines in Miss Saigon. Whatever happened to Flower Drum Song's 2 second Broadway revival, anyway? So what roles am I missing here?</p>
<p>Belle and Eponine's mother are hardly minor roles--and they are African American. And I have seen on some off Broadway productions, color blind casting for all ethniciities. With so many mixed couple and mixed heritage people these days, itis playing less of a role. Not to say it does not exist. Where race is an issue in the storyline, it is not appropriate to cast otherwise, but I have seen more latitude of late which is heartening and quite a change from the day when even the asians were cast by whites made up as such.The bias will, unfortunately be there when casting directors are too narrow minded to see the possibilities, and there are enough of those types around to make a difference at times. Hopefully, things will improve any more. I do know that I wrote and remarked upon the color blind casting when I saw it because I feel it is an important step forward.</p>
<p>Jamimom--I agree with what you're saying about change in casting, but as the mother of a child who has already experienced these situations, I can tell you it hasn't changed soon enough.</p>
<p>I wasn't talking about Belle and Eponine's mother being minor roles. I asked if anyone has seen ASIAN WOMEN in lead or supporting roles other than those I mentioned. (Les Miz, in fact, is one of the few musicals where blind casting was used by casting an Asian woman). There are actually many more roles for African American women in musicals--roles designed for African American women--than for Asian women.</p>