U Chicago for a Wall Street career?????

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
1

<p>I read on other threads that many Wall Street type places mostly recruit only from HYPS plus a few Ivies. Chicago was never mentioned.</p>

<p>I love Chicago for it's rigorous intellectual training it provides, but I need to think about practical sides also.</p>

<p>Please give me your honest opinion based on experience/real life observation, not "patriotic" declaration of why Chicago is perfect. No need to preach to the choir: I think very highly of Chicago because of their strong core, I am now evaluating the practical side.</p>

<p>I am especially interested in hearing from those on this board who are working in the financial sector.</p>

2

<p>Chicago is very good for placement in finance. It's comparable to any of the lower ivies (Cornell, the College at Penn, etc.). With a respected economics department and a career planning center that focuses quite a bit on the wall street firms, Chicago does just fine on this front. </p>

<p>I'm not in finance, but when I was at U of C, a lot of my friends went to the (then) blue-chip firms. Recruiting seemed to be a pretty cut and dry process, and I don't think anyone stressed too much about getting a great job in finance.</p>

3

<p>At U of C, you will always have less people on the street in terms of sheer numbers because it just isn't the main interest of the undergraduate body.</p>

<p>That said, I would argue in terms of students who want to get on Wall St. and those who do, U of C is actually better than the lower ivy's and certainly better than all the BBA schools (Michigan, NYU, Berkley) aside from Wharton.</p>

<p>To understand this with a bit more data, here are some points:</p>

<p>Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs is a U of C alum (B.A. and MBA)
CEO of Credit Suisse is a U of C alum (BA and MBA)</p>

<p>This year, which is the worst market for aspiring Wall St. Financiers, U of C has done extremely well. I would say somewhere around 100 are pursuing "Wall St" jobs every year.</p>

<p>This year, I know 10 students are headed to Goldman Sachs. There are probably the same amount headed to JPMorgan and Credit Suisse.</p>

<p>Other banks that are on campus: Lazard, Deutsche Bank, UBS, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley. Most people that can keep their GPA above 3.5/3.6 and are interested in Wall St will be getting interviews. The rest is on the individual and it doesn't matter if you went to Harvard or Wharton (probably the two best schools for Wall St) and got a 4.0, if your personality doesn't match or you can't interview well, you won't land the job.</p>

4

<p>akx,</p>

<p>thanks for sharing this info. How about college student internship prospect? Would U of C be less favored compared to HYPW type schools for internship?</p>

5

<p>akx - I still think Chicago does about as well as the lower ivies (Cornell and the College at Penn), but trails Dartmouth, Columbia, and certainly Harvard, Stanford, Wharton by a good deal. I also think, at least when I was at Chicago, interest for wall street is quite high. My graduating year, something like 28% of my class concentrated in economics, and the VAST majority of these students had no interest in academic work in econ - they all wanted to work at blue-chip firms. </p>

<p>Chicago does not do as well as Dartmouth, Stanford, etc. for a couple reasons. Perhaps most importantly, from what I saw, finance is kind of a fratty, work hard/party hard scene. Just like at top med schools, a lot of the i-bankers were former Dartmouth soccer players or Princeton rowers. During interviews, the interviewers look for more of the same - so current ivy athletes, Stanford jocks, etc. do extremely well. Chicago students generally don't interview quite as well, and this drops Chicago down a few pegs in comparison to places like Dartmouth or Princeton. Chicago doesn't really have the type of culture that translates well to the world of finance. </p>

<p>That being said, the sheer strength and reputation of Chicago in the financial world allows the undergrads to fare well, but I would be surprised if Chicago does as well as more ingrained-in-the-culture schools such as Dartmouth or Princeton.</p>

6

<p>Science fiction - Chicago would not be as strong in placement for internships as Harvard, Princeton, Wharton etc. Unless there is hard data to prove otherwise, I'd imagine it's more in line with the lower ivies, Northwestern, etc.</p>

7

<p>Again, Chicago will always lose from a pure numbers standpoint. Many of the Econ majors are international students and many of those students will be heading back to their own country, not competing for jobs on Wall St.</p>

<p>Other students are more Mathematically inclined and look to move into hedge funds/trading shops, mostly in Chicago right after undergrad.</p>

<p>With that said, I would agree we certainly do not place as well as Princeton or Dartmouth. Dartmouth has a special program where students take the summer quarter between 2nd and 3rd year and then intern during the fall of their 3rd year at a bank. There is also a very high level of interest from Dartmouth students to get into investment banking.</p>

<p>Internship data is the same as full time data, the reputations all carry over. I would agree though that the culture here does not translate into the world of finance. We students tend to be a bit more nonconformist than some of our peers, which is a matter of personalities.</p>

<p>But, I will say again, if you have the personality and can make the grade here, you should have no problem getting onto Wall St. I wouldn't NOT come to U of C because there might be a perception that Dartmouth places marginally better on the street.</p>

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<p>akx - again, I would disagree. If a prospective student likes, say, Chicago and Dartmouth equally as much, and the only tiebreaker factor is placement on wall street, Dartmouth gets the definite edge. I mean this not in terms of raw numbers, I mean that, with two similar applicants, the Dartmouth student will probably fare a bit better than the Chicago applicant. </p>

<p>For finance and business specifically, Dartmouth offers some resources that Chicago cannot match. Since the sheer number of Dartmouth grads on wall street is considerably higher, Dartmouth is a more known commodity on wall street, the Dartmouth alumni network is certainly tighter, and in the networky-world of business, this matters. Moreover, at each school, the nature and culture of the school rubs off on each student a bit. Again, Dartmouth is sort of custom-engineered by this point to produce people who will succeed on wall street - and 4 years at dartmouth will provide a student with better social "training" (more exposure to the work hard/party hard atmosphere, being surrounded by others also interested in finance, etc.). At Chicago, on the other hand, if you are more of a pre-finance, pre-professional guy at the start, you will spend four years swimming against the current at U of C. It's just not the same type of environment. </p>

<p>To provide a more concrete example of this, lots of my friends at Chicago spent 2-3 years taking econ classes, getting interested in the academic nature of the subject, and then, all of a sudden, deciding to go work on Wall Street. They all did fine, but in contrast to this approach, more Dartmouth students are grooming themselves for a position on Wall Street from earlier on in their college careers. Again, its just a different type of environment. </p>

<p>Raw numbers aside, and just looking at the situation in terms of proportions, I think Chicago does about as well as Cornell, the College at Penn, Northwestern, and the like. It falls considerably short of the standard found at Dartmouth, Princeton, Wharton, etc.</p>

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<p>I don't really agree with your social argument that gives an advantage to ivies. You can go to UofC and be study hard, party hard and you can go to Dartmouth and be nonconformist. Obviously there are more of the first type at Dartmouth but that is just because it attract that type of person. I don't think it is the converse in that Dartmouth forms that type of person. You also need to consider that every year UofC gains reputation points. We all know it is much better than it is considered to be in the minds of many and slowly but surely it is gaining its due respect. In four years its reputation will most definitely grow. I would just recommend that you find the school that fits you best and then work hard. If you do well at UChicago I would bet that you going there would not hinder you from getting a job. On the flip side, if you go to some other school where you do not fit in you may be in an environment that is not conducive to work. I am sure that bad grades at say Dartmouth would hurt you more than going to UofC.</p>

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<p>In my opinion for wall street the best schools are: </p>

<p>1) Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Wharton
2) Yale, Dartmouth, Stanford
3) Columbia, Penn, Williams, Stern
4) Amherst, Brown, Cornell, Northwestern, Ross, Haas
5) Chicago</p>

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<p>Slipper, I'd disagree with you.</p>

<p>MIT is not particularly excellent for Wall St. placement, certainly not in the same playing field as Wharton and Harvard.</p>

<p>Also, Wharton is somewhat of a special case. Only 50% of their students get their jobs through on campus recruiting - the rest really run their search through a network due to the position of family members. This is confirmed by their class employment profile.</p>

<p>2nd, Stern has WAY more students than U of C kids going into business. Trust me, as someone who's been through the process twice, U of C puts you in a better position.</p>

<p>I think we do better than every school in your 4th category and Stern as well.</p>

<p>Just curious to know where you got your information from?</p>

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<p>For the bulge bracket / highly selective firms which recruit at elite colleges nationally (JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, DE Shaw, etc.), as opposed to boutique firms which may target only a handful of regional schools or those favored by the senior management, the hierarchy seems to be:</p>

<p>Harvard, Wharton, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT > every other elite college (less WUSTL and JHU, which for idiosyncratic / historical reasons get shafted*).</p>

<p>This not based on the sheer number of finance employees – some schools graduate more than others, e.g. Dartmouth – but more the ability to attain employment on the street for those seeking it. The same list pretty much goes for management consulting as well. </p>

<p>Further, I agree that on the margin that the clubby clubby, “we want to recruit our own alumni / fraternity members / athletes” good old boys element outweighs going to a school where most students see the post-graduate world (sometimes derisively) as an afterthought. A sizable portion of UChicago students working at top firms are significantly less interested in launching a long term career on Wall Street as opposed to finding a lucrative stop over point on the way to graduate school (85% attend within five years), and this takes much of the wind out of what is an already quite anti-corporate culture on the college quads. </p>

<p>However, on the flipside for a prospective student, UChicago is sitting in the midst of one of the largest financial markets in world, and has an administration that is open to letting students drop for a quarter or two to a half load or no classes whatsoever to take advantage of non-summer internships (which, I would argue, is a option vastly underutilized by students who instead compete for relatively scare summer spots). Also, there is a pop in recruiting that comes from 25% of all university alumni being associated with the Booth School of Business. Consequently, a student who gets an interview can therefore reach out to more midlevel employees for ideas about the process if not outright support (alas, also horribly underutilized). </p>

<p>Yet, all in all, I would not select a college based on what job it is going to land you for all of two to three years max after graduation. I have seen a lot of good people spend four years revving up to an analyst gig only to find themselves totally directionless when the process ends and they are inevitably shown the door**. </p>

<ul>
<li>I understand people from WUSTL and JHU land on Wall Street, but they are not heavily recruited schools, as evinced by the target lists on websites for a lot of major firms. Their strong placement for graduate studies is arguably more impressive. </li>
</ul>

<p>** The promotion of BA holders to mid-to-senior level positions is quickly disappearing, and was greatly buoyed in recent years by the now broken asset bubble. Some strategic thought about where one will do well academically in advance of professional school is vastly more important.</p>

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<p>Ras - I'm not sure what you're arguing, exactly. Chicago has been known in the finance world for a very, very long time. It's been a powerhouse school for decades, and it's not as if the bulge bracket firms are just now beginning to take notice. The general public is just about as unaware as Chicago as ever, this hasn't changed significantly (the Obama link being a slight bump, although U of C was, in my opinion, not mentioned enough in connection to Obama).</p>

<p>Also, I don't really get your contention with my social argument. I did my grad work at Penn, and I met a LOT of anthropology majors, sociology majors, etc. who decide to go work on Wall Street for a few years, and gradually acclimate to the work hard/play hard lifestyle. For whatever reason, students who come in having no interest in finance or business wind up heading to new york following graduation. I think the general environment of the school really plays a part in this. (Of course, the truly pre-prof types generally don't select Chicago, but I don't think you can ignore the formative experience an undergrad can play). On that same note, I've heard princeton graduates majoring in english or art history or whatever say, when asked about their decision to go into finance, "if you go to princeton, it's just in the f%&#ing air you breathe." </p>

<p>I didn't mean to say that Dartmouth assertively FORMS this type of person, but the college plays some type of role. I've met too many wide-eyed, supposed future-teachers at 18 leave Penn at 22 to head to Deutsche Bank.</p>

14

<p>Slipper - dude what are you talking about? If you can point to disparities through hard data - i.e. Brown having significantly more success than Chicago on wall street - then maybe you have a point, but otherwise, your argument is pretty unsubstantiated. </p>

<p>Chicago behind Northwestern, Cornell, and the College at Penn? Chicago is very, very well respected on Wall Street, and its seen as a more prominent school in the world of finance then these three institutions. You need to expand on this, because if Cornell, Brown, etc. really do much better than Chicago, the kids must literally be showering in money and offers from blue chip firms. It's hard to see students from any school but the top 5 (HYPSW), and then perhaps a Dartmouth or MIT enjoying more offers and opportunities than Chicago grads.</p>

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<p>I am not arguing that Chicago has not been known but rather it is continuously increasing in recognized prestige. This will only increase the respect from everyone even if it is subconsciously. Even in the eyes of the finance sector I am sure that the increased prestige will help even it is not a major effect.
Even if we generalize your anecdotal evidence it hardly applies to the OP's question. So these schools got people uninterested in finance to be interested in finance, but the OP is already interested in it. This is also due to the fact that a lot of these schools have larger business programs and more people enrolled in them(percentage wise). If you are considering a teachers job, which doesn't pay a large starting salary, and your good friend is getting a 100k a year job on wall street you may just decide to switch. However, I don't think anything about this schools necessarily makes you more prepared for the world of finance. I feel that the work hard/party hard attitude is largely in the person and not the institution. Obviously there is an effect of environment, but I would argue it is minimal.
However, I do agree with the statement about larger alum networks for the other schools, which makes a difference. The UofC network is growing and with the increase in reputation more top students will attend and it will only get larger and larger(this may be outside the time frame of the OP's question though).</p>

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<p>ras - define your terms a bit more. When you say Chicago is "increasing in recognized prestige" what does this mean? That because we now report more accurate data to US News, we have been ranked as one of the top 8 or 9 schools as opposed to one of the top 14 or 15 schools in the past two years? Are we now more recognized because of this? Admissions has now pretty much stabilized and won't see a significant increase in selectivity for a while (for the next several years, it's likely that Chicago will continue to admit 20-25% of its applicants per year. It's doubtful that number will drop much more). </p>

<p>Also, in terms of social "training" perhaps I should rephrase: in the clubby, networky, and very social (in a particular way) world of finance, the more traditional, fratty types generally fare better. Pardon if this comes across as rude, but Chicago just has a lot more socially awkward, nerdy types than these two other schools. I agree, maybe its not the school forming the student, and just students selecting what school best matches them, but from my experience at Chicago, I couldn't see many of my peers wow-ing i-bankers or PE guys in interviews. Dartmouth or Princeton have more of the charismatic, "team-player" clubby types that these banks want. Accordingly, they both do better overall than Chicago on this front. It's the same reason why Chicago students don't do as well in top med school admissions. All else being equal, the social factors serve as tiebreakers, and the Chicago nerd falls a step behind the Princeton soccer player here. </p>

<p>Of course, I should emphasize - Chicago kids still do extremely well, but perhaps not as well as these two other institutions.</p>

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<p>Interesting thread. Very relevant to my son. Lives and breathes finances - that's his passion, and fully intends to hit Wall Street right out of college, and plans to go for MBA a few years down the road. Very sociable, and definitely not a propeller head geek. He is already looking for an internship in the financial world this summer before he starts his freshman year in college (got an offer or two already).</p>

<p>He got an EA from Chicago. Now we wait for RD decision from HYPMWC (columbia). I like the idea of him going to Chicago - the idea of thorough intellectual rigor as part of the undergrad experience is very appealing to me, as opposed to mostly vocation training like Wharton education (well, don't flame me. I am a Wharton MBA, but in high tech, not in finance). I also believe that my son's intellectual mind will fit very well in Chicago. However, the easy access to the Wall Street type jobs is an important consideration. </p>

<p>So, let's change the question slightly. For a truly motivated future Wall Street player like my son who needs no further encouragement, will Chicago diploma still hinder him measurably compared to HYPWC due to the lack of extensive alum network and name recognition? Does Chicago provide enough "meat" for this type of student?</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee - no, absolutely not. If a student feels Chicago is a good fit, and wants the broad, liberal arts education and the intellectual rigor that are the trademarks of a U of C education, he will be in no way hindered by Chicago's lesser brand recognition in comparison to Harvard or Wharton. </p>

<p>In my previous posts, I was talking about the student that JUST wanted a finance job, and saw schooling as a rudimentary vehicle to achieve this goal (many of my former students at Penn fit this mold). If your son wants perhaps the premier educational experience available, coupled with extremely good options for finance, then Chicago is a great fit. Chicago, however, will force students to think, to accept challenges and rigorous academic assignments, and to deal with pressure to some extent (the shorter academic trimester system lends itself to this). I know a lot of Penn students who would hate this environment - they want to party and breeze through college for four years, and then get a good job on wall street after graduation.</p>

<p>At Chicago, you WILL feel the education. A Chicago grad's job options will be just as good as the kid from the College at Penn or Brown or Duke, but the Chicago grad's experience in college will be different.</p>

<p>Of course, if your kid really buys what Chicago is selling, and does very well, then this conversation is pretty much moot. He'll be as highly recruited as top kids from Princeton or Wharton. </p>

<p>To summarize, if your son is really interested in the environment Chicago offers, he will in no way be hindered in his opportunities afterwards. I just caution the students who really like the atmosphere of Penn or Duke and are considering Chicago. They just won't be as happy, and Chicago just won't fit their goals.</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee - I agree with cue7.</p>

<p>For the motivated types in this regard (I think I certainly fall into this group), Chicago will certainly open doors. If you son is proactive in preparing early, networking early, reaching out to alums early, etc. he will have no problem landing a gig at a Wall St firm, especially if he has the personality you describe.</p>

<p>Speaking from experience, for us motivated and informed types, there's something of an advantage at U of C. Your competition is not nearly as stiff. By this I mean the following: Firms are very well aware of the quality of education and the quality of student Chicago produces. They look upon it very positively and would love to accept U of C kids in their firms.</p>

<p>The issues are often akin to people's personalities, poor interview skills and lack of preparation. For people who are past those issues, it's to their advantage.</p>

<p>For example, you have something called a Goldman Sachs Spring Securities Program. 2 students from my class applied and joined the program over the spring break of their sophomore year. They were both offered internships for their 3rd year summers and are headed back as Sales and Trading interns at Wall St's best firm.</p>

<p>Also, because of the smaller number of Alums, particularly from the college, there is this strong camaraderie between Chicago grads on the Street. In my own experience, a VP has kept in touch with me since the interview process began and he goes out of his way to make sure I'm going to have the best experience possible. He said, "U of C is very dear to me and I like to make sure that the undergrads who come to Goldman Sachs are having the best experience they possibly can."</p>

<p>This can be leveraged when networking as many people will go out of their way since so few students contact them.</p>

20

<p>Cue and Akx,</p>

<p>thanks for your thoughtful response. </p>

<p>Until a couple of years ago or so, I thought my son will end up being an academician, and that idea really appealed to me. Alas, during last two years, he has become an unrepentant capitalist ;-) and wants to join the Wall Street crowd. Well, his choice and whatever he decides to do, I will fully support. </p>

<p>His career choice makes intellectually rigorous undergrad education more important than ever for him - since he is joining a very practical profession, this may be the first and last four years of his life where pure intellect is challenged for its own sake. It would be such a waste for a bright young mind to miss this opportunity. For this reason, I would love to see him go to Chicago, but again, not my choice...... </p>

<p>I believe he will thrive in Chicago: he has a serious intellectual fire power, and loves the challenges of the mind. Social awkwardness is not his problem: he can sweet talk anybody into liking him, so no worries there about Chicago grads not acing the interviews.....</p>

<p>Again, I thank you for your reply. This definitely reinforces my arsenal.</p>