D19 is accepted to Rice and UChicago, and they seem to have a lot in common (housing, focus on learning, etc). The financial aid packages make the cost about the same and they’re both a plane flight away. She plans to be a political science major (pre-law) and wants a politically active campus. Not very interested in partying or big-deal sporting events. Plans to play an instrument but does not want to be a music major. Is a little worried about the intensity of academics at UChicago, but her stats are near the top of UChicago averages. For those facing this same or similar situation, any advice?
Can she visit? If yes, I would visit both and see which she prefers. If you can’t afford to visit, I wouldn’t be surprised if UChicago (at least - I can’t speak for Rice) would offer to fly her in for an overnight when told that you are trying to decide but need assistance making it to campus.
Rice is pretty strong in Poli Sci, and they’ve made big improvements in their pre-law advising in the past few years. It’s not the most politically active campus per se, but it’s a good place to debate politics with those who are interested, because there is no “echo chamber” quality to the discourse - a variety of viewpoints and ideologies are intelligently represented.
The residential college systems at the two school appear similar, but Rice students spend more time living in their colleges than UChicago students do. A majority of Rice students spend one year (usually junior year) off campus (passing down rentals within their residential colleges), but the vast majority return to their residential colleges as seniors (as well as spending time there while off campus); so intergenerational friendships and mentoring are strong.
Downsides - the music opportunities for non-majors at Rice seem to be a little sparse and hard to schedule for many - I know a number of students who intended to participate and never managed to make it happen. And it’s definitely a “wet campus” although students who don’t drink aren’t pressured, and there’s lots to do other than party. She’d definitely have plenty of company in not caring about sporting events, as that’s the norm!
My daughter liked both schools very much and applied to both. Both have a life of the mind vibe and a wonderfully diverse student body. She preferred Rice because it was closer to home, the weather was warmer, and the total price for tuition and room and board at Rice was less expensive. Your daughter should attend Owl Days and an admitted student event at U Chicago and see which one is the best fit. https://admission.rice.edu/sites/g/files/bxs676/f/ScheduleAtAGlance_OwlDays2019_4.pdf
I will chime in with an answer as I have had kids at Chicago, and we live in Texas.
First, congratulations!
As you already know, there is only a good outcome–both schools are amazing, highly ranked, and universally respected.
Chicago has a very strong political science department that positions undergraduates for admission into Chicago’s elite law school. Chicago goes out of its way to give their own undergraduates a stronger chance at admission—no guarantee, of course, but a little extra love. Outside of the classroom, the Institute for Politics is a unique offering of the Chicago experience; David Axelrod is very involved as a passionate leader of that organization. Obama’s former role on the Chicago faculty also keeps him very close to the University, and his presidential library is going to be a part of the campus experience upon completion. Chicago is also a founder of the Federalist Society; there is no more important organization in law today than FS as this organization generates bleeding edge debate on nearly every major legal issue of our day. FS also produces the country’s most senior and powerful judges in disproportional numbers. For sure, the now legendary Chicago Statement will position your daughter to be exposed to, and agree or disagree with, multiple points of view.
While I know far less about Rice in specific, let’s assume for a second there are many of the same strengths that exist at Chicago, and then add to the “plus” list for Rice the fact that Texas is the undisputed leading state in the USA from a business and economic point of view. Whether being rated as the #1 state for business, the #1 state for female entrepreneurs, or looking at the state’s massive $15 billion rainy day fund surplus, Texas is positioned to prosper for decades. A very different financial case can be made about the municipal financial conditions in states like Illinois, sadly. Let’s hope that turns around.
If Texas is in your child’s future plans due to its economic prowess, be advised that Chicago’s stature in Texas is substantial. Of course, the undisputed Texas leader of the Chicago contingency is David Booth, the self-made billionaire founder of Dimensional and benefactor of the Booth School of Business. Dimensional headquarters are in Austin, Texas. Additionally, Ken Griffin’s Citadel has very large offices in Houston and Dallas, and this self-made billionaire is the benefactor of the Griffin School of Economics at the University of Chicago. Citadel headquarters are also in Chicago. Both Dimensional and Citadel are often ranked as #1/or top firms in their fields using metrics. Rice, however, would have to have an edge in the State of Texas just due to the massive number of in state alumni. I also suspect you don’t need a weather channel link about climate differences— some students do find that to be important.
I hope this quick and short collection of thoughts helps you think through your wonderful choice.
How about planning to do graduate work at the one you don’t select for undergraduate!
I can tell you that your daughter should not fear the academic rigor of Chicago. She wouldn’t have been admitted if she couldn’t handle it. My son is finishing up his first year and really has embraced the amount of work. Every class is one he wants to be in and he feels like they really encourage him to dive into the material.
He also is a rare exception, in that he isn’t all that impressed with the House system (maybe it is him, maybe just his house), but he has made a great group of friends with his Track and Cross Country teams and absolutely has no regrets with his decision.
My son also wants to study Law after undergrad and UChciago had an insane number of something like 74% of students who applied to law school get admitted to a T14 law school (class of 2017). I suspect that as the quality of the classes continue to rise, this number will inch up as well. The academic rigor of any school will only better prepare them for Law School as everything I’ve heard is more rigorous than the UChicago Undergrad program.
Rice is also a great school. I just spent last week in the Houston area. It was ok, but not great. I did not make it to the Rice area, but from what I saw Chicago was a bit more happening. Of course last week it was near 70 degrees in Houston and near 40 degrees in Chicago.
As others have said, you can’t make a wrong choice between the two schools. Rice does not have a law school as U Chicago does. Rice graduates also have good admission rates in to law school. I am an attorney in Houston and I know many attorneys in town that are Rice grads.
The political science department at Rice is also top notch. The Baker Institute, founded by James Baker, recently hosted President Obama. Anita Hill spoke on campus this week.
U Chicago is on the quarter system while Rice is on the semester system. The residential college system is very strong at Rice and is similar to the house system at U Chicago. There is no Greek life at Rice. U Chicago is located in the south side of Chicago while Rice is located in the museum district of Houston immediately adjacent to the Houston medical center, which is one of the largest in the world. Many Rice students get internships there. My daughter, a psychology major, is interning at Baylor College of Medicine this summer. Rice may be more STEM focused than U Chicago, but there are plenty of students in other disciplines such as the social sciences.
Your child is fortunate to be able to choose between such wonderful options.
First, congratulations! What a good dilemma to have.
As a Rice grad and the parent of a newly admitted Rice student, I’m a little biased. Rice has a great political science department and a lot of opportunities in the Houston area. The light rail has a stop just outside of campus and can take your daughter downtown in minutes if she gets an internship (law firm, courts, etc.)
In general, Rice has not been known as a politically active campus, but that doesn’t mean Rice students are indifferent. Last fall the Rice Democrats held a Beto O’Rourke for Senate rally. They expected a small to moderate turnout, but had to move the event to a larger location off campus that still couldn’t contain the entire crowd. At Rice your daughter can definitely find her place along the political spectrum, but shouldn’t expect all of her peers will be as charged up over political issues as she is.
While Texas overall is still a red state, Houston is more blue and she will find a politically diverse landscape both on campus and in the city. Texas is in the position to become more of a swing state for 2020, so we may have more opportunities for the politically interested than in the past.
Rice is a great school with quirky interested students. I hope you and your daughter get a chance to visit in the next month.
I lived in both Chicago and Houston for some time, so I can give my perspective as an outsider looking in.
UChicago is located in Hyde Park, which although not a suburb, is one of the farther neighborhoods from central downtown Chicago. It is about a 15 min drive from Hyde Park to the central loop, and about 20 mins to Magnificent mile area. There are good public transport options from Hyde Park to everywhere in the city via CTA bus and train lines. Having said this, the vibe at UChicago is more of an enclave than an urban city dwelling university. Two big airports to choose from for local flights (Midway and O’hare) will leave plenty of options to fly home. When I lived in Chicago in the 1990s, the south side of Chicago was known for being a dangerous place. But after having visited recently, I can honestly say that Hyde Park has a dramatic renaissance. Lots of new shops, restaurants and cafes. It is very safe. But crossing the southern boundary of the university leads to uncharted territory. I had several friends who were UChicago students, and they always found time to socialize.
Rice is located in West University area of Houston, directly behind theTexas Medical Center. The area is filled with lots of trees and wealthy mansions. West U is one of the most expensive areas in Houston to live, and is a favorite for many of the doctors in the area. The Texas Medical Center is almost like a second downtown, but focused on health care. The ‘real’ downtown of Houston is located in an area where the major highways converge (69, 10, 45). West U is located about 15 mins away from downtown. However the city of Houston is quite spread out, so being outside of downtown is not a big problem. The public transport options in Houston are far fewer than Chicago. And if you want to explore the other areas (Galveston, NASA, Ft Bend county, etc) having a car is most helpful. Houston as a city sits only a few feet above sea level. And if you can remember two years ago from Hurricane Harvey, most of the city was flooded. Most of the medical center is located on high ground, so Rice is fortunate not to have suffered major flooding. But I do recall walking through Kirby Drive with water up to my knees pushing my car during heavy rains. Unfortunately flash flooding happens in Houston. It has probably gotten worse from when I lived there 20 years ago.
Two outstanding options.
For one who wants a politically active campus & wants to attend law school after studying political science, the University of Chicago might be the better choice. Exposure to an on campus law school & to elite law students may help to form realistic impressions of what law school entails.
Nevertheless, a visit to each campus would be wise.
Academically, both schools are very similar. UChicago is probably more active politically. Student life is likely better at Rice as they are known for being a small and happy community. U Chicago is very intense and known for driving fragile to depression. U Chicago has a law school so that’s nice but as no preference is given to undergrads next doors, it has no added benefit. Rice has Baker Institute think tank which should offer enough political action and distinguished speakers. U Chicago has better name recognition than Rice. If financial factors are even then go to Rice for undergrad and Chicago Law School for law degree.
The University of Chicago School of Law does encourage Chicago undergraduates to apply & has special law school scholarships reserved for them.
If law school has a preference for their undergrads then it’s a huge plus. However, it must be harder to stand out for admission as every peer would have similar experiences but going from Texas, you may stand out and have a different sort of advantage for admission.
No one should ever pick an undergrad assuming they will then get into a specific school at the grad level. It rarely works out. She should go to accepted student visits at both and see what she thinks.
As everyone has said, it’s a good choice to have. If your daughter has grown up in Texas she might want the experience of living up north in a very different sort of challenging but also exhilarating big city. She would be attending a school known for a certain hectic intensity and full of kids from far flung parts, not many of them being from Texas or the south. It was these factors that inclined me to the choice of Chicago over Rice some 55 years ago.
She should especially consider the existence of the Core at Chicago, whereas nothing of that sort, to my knowledge, exists at Rice. She will spend a good part of her time (something like one and a half years in total) taking mandatory courses in a variety of disciplines. Some consider this the particular glory of the University of Chicago, others simply consider it a drag. It is in any event very defining of the culture of the place, in which all students with all interests do share a certain common frame of reference, study many of the same texts and tend to talk to each other about these matters. It is important that she embrace that culture.
Only one road can be taken, and it makes all the difference, even if the difference can’t be seen clearly. Good luck to her.
My daughter visited both Rice and UChicago last year. Take this with a grain of salt, because everyone’s visits are different and depend on many factors, but she ultimately decided not to apply to Rice and UChicago ended up being her first choice school, and she will be attending there this Fall. One of the main reasons was the vibe she felt at each college. At Rice she sat in on several classes, had lunch with current students and had coffee with some students from a class . While the atmosphere was highly academic at Rice, she felt it was subdued. She didn’t witness the passion for academics like she did at UChicago. What she liked about UChicago was the intensity about anything and everything.
She also is a big fan of UChicago’s Core. Like stated above, some people love it, and some hate it, but that was one of the reasons that UChicago became my daughter’s first choice.
The last main reason was the weather. Some people will think my daughter has it backwards, but she much prefers the cold to the heat. She would rather trudge to class in a foot of snow at 0 degrees than a 90 degree day with 100% humidity.
2 things she did like about Rice were the music department seemed several notches above UChicago’s (she plays cello, but does not want to major in music) and she felt that Rice’s House system was structured a bit better.
Congratulations on the acceptances… 2 wonderful schools to choose from. I would definitely go back for admitted student sessions at each.
Rice might have a strong poly sci. program, but UChicago’s is stronger. Still, the driver of this decision should be the quality of the liberal arts program more than the ranking of a specific major. For one thing, your major is likely to be only 1/3 of your total earned credits. For another, you might change your mind about major once you arrive on campus.
UChicago’s core curriculum is comprehensive and well-thought-out so that’s going to be a strength, though it appears from the above comments that Rice also takes the liberal arts seriously.
An admission to Chicago Law will have less to do with which school you choose - UChicago vs. Rice - than what you did with your time on either campus. While the College students applying to Law might indeed get a bump, that could have more to do with the student than the undergraduate institution. Could well be that both Law and the College tend to look for similar attributes in their applicants. Of course, if Law has special scholarships reserved for UChicago admits, that’s very nice (law school is expensive). However, admission to the top law schools is very competitive so it’s unrealistic to pin hopes on just one particular institution. And again, you might change your mind once you arrive on campus. Best to stick with what each undergrad. program can offer you on its own. Those who attend their best fit usually do their best.
Being independent at an urban campus few hours away yet being able to take a bus to go home if literally sick or homesick is a big plus.