U Chicago vs. Vanderbilt

College Search & Selection
21

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What do dating and dressing up have to do with each other?

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<p>Some people dress up for their dates to football games on Saturdays. It gives the school a nice charm, but the majority of students just wear normal clothes.</p>

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she has to put on a sundress and be judged beautiful by somebody else's standard.

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<p>Theres lots of girls who just wear t-shirt and jeans to the games. You clearly have never visited Vanderbilt. Also, you don't need to be beautiful to wear a sundress -- Vanderbilt just happens to have lots of really sweet/pretty girls. Last week, my girlfriend baked me cookies. Being from the northeast, girls in my hometown would never do such a thing. People are more genuine and down-to-earth here.</p>

<p>Also, I don't think theres anything wrong with dressing up for class. I'd rather be in a class where everyone looks professional and are ready to discuss ideas -- than be around a bunch of people who just rolled out of bed. </p>

<p>This semester I took a class with former Congressman Harold Ford Jr. on elections. Through his connections, we were able to talk to some of presidential candidates on speakerphone, the editor of Newsweek, and Chris Matthews (TV broadcaster) and ask them all questions.</p>

<p>I have eaten lunch with numerous professors and Vanderbilt undergrads are very balanced which is rare at top schools.</p>

<p>Vanderbilt has D-1 Sports. Tailgates, March Madness basketball games (we are 10-0 by the way), and one of the best baseball teams in the country. The Rites of Spring festival is one of the best funded music festivals in the country. Kanye West played at our homecoming. The school goes out of its way to keep its undergrads happy.</p>

<p>Definitely visit both schools. The choice will be clear after.</p>

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<p>theoc, good work.</p>

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<p>Quote:
"Also, I don't think theres anything wrong with dressing up for class. I'd rather be in a class where everyone looks professional and are ready to discuss ideas -- than be around a bunch of people who just rolled out of bed."</p>

<p>This seems like an example of pretty big difference. At Chicago, I think they assume everyone is ready to discuss ideas, regardless of how they're dressed.</p>

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<p>"You clearly have never visited Vanderbilt."</p>

<p>Actually, I have. And I explicitly addressed the fact that not everyone wears the sundresses in my post.</p>

<p>"I'd rather be in a class where everyone looks professional"</p>

<p>Yes, you would, which is why Vanderbilt is right for you and Chicago wrong for you. But last time I checked, you are not the whole world. I think you're on the wrong track, trying to defend Vanderbilt's honor or something. No matter how much you love it, or how great its positive qualities are to you, others will hate it for those very same qualities. Same goes for the U of C. You are not right, and they are not wrong.</p>

<p>"Vanderbilt just happens to have lots of really sweet/pretty girls."</p>

<p>That's what you think is important for potential applicants to know about the women at Vanderbilt? So far you've volunteered that they're beautiful and wear sundresses, that they are sweet & pretty, and that they bake you cookies. This isn't really how I'd prefer to be bragged about by my male classmates, and I think I'd have a lot of company at the U of C feeling that way. You do understand that a majority of college applicants, possibly including the OP, are female, right? Do you see that the picture you're drawing looks somewhat less appealing if you're the girl who's expected to be a sweet and pretty cookie-baker as opposed to the straight guy who's expected to enjoy the scenery and the snacks?</p>

<p>Just FYI, those young women are putting a great deal of effort into being so genuine and down-to-earth. Let's talk after sorority rush next month.</p>

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<p>Hey, we DO have a football team, it just happens to be extraordinarily pathetic. (We lost to Carnegie Mellon at our own homecoming game, and about half of the game's attendees were cheering for CMU).</p>

<p>To be honest, the cute/sundressy thing doesn't sound like it's my thing at all, but I think most females on most college campuses are overdressed, just in different ways based on regional senses of style. Chicago's lack of "dress-up" very much appealed to me, but I think if I were to attend almost any other school in the nation I'd have to come to terms with the fact that most of my female peers were paying more money and attention to their appearances than I was.</p>

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So far you've volunteered that they're beautiful and wear sundresses, that they are sweet & pretty.....this isn't really how I'd prefer to be bragged about by my male classmates

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<p>I don't think being called 'down to earth' or 'pretty' is a bad way to be judged. Compared to the stereotypes of UChicago girls-</p>

<p>Tucker Max, alum of UChicago:</p>

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We should just admit the obvious. The student body at the University of Chicago is ugly. And it's only getting worse--I'm graduating in the spring.</p>

<p>Our motto should be "The University of Chicago-The School That Beauty Forgot." Think of the possibilities. The admissions office could sell this school as the perfect place for every ugly nerd across the country. I can only imagine the new theme for the admissions viewbook-"Are you the Ugly Duckling who never blossomed? Do small children clutch at their mother's legs in terror when you draw near? Do your friends make you wear a mask in order to hang out with them? Was your nickname 'The Hunchback of AP Calc?' WE HAVE THE SCHOOL FOR YOU!! Come hang out with every other ugly nerd around the country!! You may be ugly, but so are we!!"</p>

<p>I remember my first few days here. I was a wide-eyed freshman eager to explore every opportunity this University provided. After a cursory examination, I thought that the girls were not bad. I flipped through the picture book, and found a few girls that appeared attractive. But once I actually saw these girls in person, it was became painfully apparent that they had sent in the pictures that came with their Wal-Mart wallets.</p>

<p>The ladies were more disappointing than a CBS sitdom. On closer inspection, I realized that these seemingly attractive women were not good looking. Well, I don't know if "not good looking" is the proper description; perhaps "gills and wooden teeth" is more accurate. I knew that this wasn't going to be Arizona State, but I also thought that it would be better than a Plastic Surgery Disasters convention.</p>

<p>The phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" takes on a whole new meaning here--mainly a drunken one. Steeped in an inebriated stupor is about the only way I can find physical beauty in most of the people on this campus. This phenomenon is known by different names: Hyde Park Goggles, The U of C Haze, etc. A friend of mine goes to Rice, the U of C of the South, and he summed up this problem very well, "The girls here are ugly. But I get drunk and hook up anyway. What can you do?"</p>

<p>Of course there are other forms of beauty, but it's hard to find them when you are reeling from the unique smell combination of Noxema and Designer Scents that seems to be so popular here. And no matter how awesome someone's personality is, romance becomes simply unpalatable when buckteeth and acne are involved. Hasn't anyone ever heard of braces and Acutane?</p>

<p>Of course there are always those losers who think that this place is great and say that anyone who doesn't believe so holds unrealistic visions of college life. To those people I can only say one thing: VISIT OTHER SCHOOLS. Go spend a week at Vanderbilt, UVA, Tulane, UCLA, or any number of other schools, then come back and apologize to me for saying stupid things.

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<p>Obviously, you should not apply to schools simply because of the attractiveness of the student body. But I think its a good 'tip' factor. </p>

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Do you see that the picture you're drawing looks somewhat less appealing if you're the girl who's expected to be a sweet and pretty ...opposed to the straight guy who's expected to enjoy the scenery and the snacks?

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<p>Any girl here can find her niche, whether shes into independent movies and smokes clove cigarettes, or listens to grunge/punk and goes to music shows in Nashville. The student body is very diverse, far more than people on CC give it credit for. But to the faction of girls with old-fashioned values, they do enjoy dressing up and have guys bring flowers/take them out on dates.</p>

<p>Even if Chicago does have football, you can't compare SEC tailgates with all the festivities to the scarcely attended games at UChicago. Vanderbilt's basketball team will have the stadium filled with thousands of kids jumping up and down (search YouTube of us beating #1 Florida last year), compared to the HS gym atmosophere of the AAU conference.</p>

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Women's looks and clothing are a virtual non-issue there.

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<p>I have to say, women's looks seem to be a huge issue for a (hopefully small) subset of the male population at pretty much every school with a geeky reputation, who then proceed to spend four years and beyond whining and putting the women on their own campus down. This is illustrated beautifully by TheOC's quote of Tucker Max.</p>

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<p>"Compared to the stereotypes of UChicago girls"</p>

<p>This may come as a great surprise to you, but this is not about a dichotomy of being stereotyped as beautiful vs. being stereotyped as ugly. There are actually people out there who would describe the women at their colleges based on something other than their LOOKS.</p>

<p>You might also consider that some of us aren't losing sleep at night over whether we are considered attractive by the likes of Tucker Max. Would you want to be one of the "conquests" he writes about elsewhere on his page?</p>

<p>You still don't seem to appreciate that some of us are GIRLS who prefer a school where we will not feel so pressured and judged for our perceived feminine appeal or lack thereof. Tucker notwithstanding, it's clear that no one enrolls at the U of C in order to be surrounded by supermodels. This is a good thing for many young women. It means that more of their classmates will be focusing on their wit, their talents, the books they've read and the languages they speak. You can be a big shot at the U of C based on whose lab you're working in, and it just isn't an issue whether you live in sweats and skip the lip gloss.</p>

<p>"(hopefully small) subset of the male population at pretty much every school with a geeky reputation"</p>

<p>The question is, what role do these guys play in shaping the culture? I agree that those guys exist, but in my experience, they're the ones complaining to one another while they play video games in the dorm at three in the morning. They don't get in anyone else's way too much.</p>

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You still don't seem to appreciate that some of us are GIRLS who prefer a school where we will not feel so pressured and judged for our perceived feminine appeal or lack thereof.

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<p>When you look for a job, people are going to judge you on the way you look and the manner in which you present yourself. There is nothing wrong with developing good grooming habits during your undergraduate years. Anecdotally, the kids from my HS who attended UChicago were socially awkward. You don't improve your social skills by being around other introverted people.</p>

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You might also consider that some of us aren't losing sleep at night over whether we are considered attractive

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<p>Maybe, but at the same time I think guys have the right to avoid colleges where the girls have mustaches, acne, and don't bathe. Pretending about not caring about attractiveness may provide high-fives at a feminist book club, but I doubt its the attitude that will get many dates.</p>

<p>Out of my friends who transferred from colleges (Gtech, Carnegie Mellon), they did so for "social reasons". They both complained about the quality of the girls at the school. There are plenty of schools with GREAT academics and provide a GREAT social life, theres no need to suffer. Happiness in life is a journey, not a destination.</p>

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When you look for a job, people are going to judge you on the way you look and the manner in which you present yourself. There is nothing wrong with developing good grooming habits during your undergraduate years.

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<p>As far as I can tell, this is not about grooming, this is about attractiveness.</p>

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You don't improve your social skills by being around other introverted people.

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<p>Bull. Sh**. Being around other people who are undersocialized is the perfect safe environment for an undersocialized geek to develop their skills. It's an environment where nobody will ostracize or exclude you for not having the skills already, and you don't feel the need to shy away from social situations for fear of looking dumb and awkward. This was my experience and the experience of most of my friends at MIT.</p>

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They both complained about the quality of the girls at the school. There are plenty of schools with GREAT academics and provide a GREAT social life, theres no need to suffer.

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<p>I get so sick of phrases like "the quality of the girls" being used as a euphemism for attractiveness. My "quality" is not determined by my attractiveness. And for that matter, the quality of my social life is not determined by the attractiveness of the people in my social group.</p>

<p>I almost went to Vanderbilt, lured by a huge merit scholarship. It had great opportunities in the fields that I was interested in at the time and is a great school, and I'm sure I would have found a social niche somewhere, even if not in the school mainstream. If your attitude is at all representative, though, I'm really glad that I didn't go there.</p>

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Pretending about not caring about attractiveness may provide high-fives at a feminist book club, but I doubt its the attitude that will get many dates.

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<p>Hasn't been an obstacle for me. ;)</p>

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<p>TheOC89, you are clearly more interested in bashing people and schools who are unlike you than you are in trying to grasp the concept of different strokes for different folks. I won't waste any more time trying to have a real conversation with you.</p>

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<p>I am very familiar with both schools. I can easily see why someone would apply to both, although they are quite different. Vanderbilt is VERY frat/sorority oriented, and I know a number of kids, who are very social, but did not like the frat emphasis and transferred out. Chicago does not have that. The big plus of Vandy (to me) is the great athletics. They are in the SEC and you get to see high-level college sports. I have season tickets to the Vandy basketball games and it's a lot of fun. Some kids would miss that at Chicago. Others would not. Nashville is a neat town and very manageable. Safety is of little concern. UChicago has some issues in the surrounding areas. (I went to law schoool there back in the day, and I know it has greatly improved, but it isn't Nashville....)<br>
Both schools have wonderful academics. Chicago has the stronger academic reputation but you can accomplish whatever you want with a Vandy degree, too.<br>
A kid doesn't have to be interested in just one type of school. My son was interested in everything from LACs to big state Us to Ivys. I DO believe in finding "fit", but I don't think there is only ONE type of school for every kid. For some kids, maybe, but not all.</p>

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<p>Like jessiehl's experiences with MIT, I've found the U of C to be a haven for people like myself, and a good chunk of my own satisfaction with the school comes from knowing that there are some people like me out there, and they come to the U of C in pretty high concentrations. (Of course, it's not like everybody at the school fits into a stereotype of a nerd, but I myself fit the bill pretty well).</p>

<p>Maybe I play up my own awkwardness a little bit. In high school, I had two best friends (both of whom were massively, massively awkward in incredibly different ways) and I had a lot of acquaintances scattered all over the school who embodied every stereotype imaginable. I talked to a lot of people on a daily basis, but I didn't really feel like I belonged. That was to me the ultimate sign that I belong at a school like Chicago, where I have, again, one or two best friends and a lot of acquaintances, only this time I feel like I belong.</p>

<p>If you don't think you can tolerate being around socially awkward people or people who didn't fit in in high school, don't come to the U of C. However, it's always fun to see people who didn't feel right in high school come here and blossom almost instantly. We're a fun, happy, academically-minded collection of 4,500 kids, but we're probably not everybody's cup of tea.</p>

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<p>MomofWildChild, I agree that a kid doesn't have to be interested in just one type of school. I went to Northwestern and loved it but I'm sure I would have loved U of Chicago too. Yes, it would have been a different experience, without some of the social trappings of NU (Greek life, Big 10 sports, etc.). And so what? There are LAC's I would have thrived at as well. I think it's paradoxical that at the time we are telling our kids to spread their wings, we are expressing surprise that they might be interested in schools that offer qualitatively different experiences (Vandy and U of Chicago being a good example). Why couldn't a smart, sociable student potentially enjoy and thrive at either school? I think the same thing about schools that offer core curriculums and those who don't. Why couldn't a student consider both options?</p>

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<p>I'm sorry this thread got diverted by the physical attractiveness "issue". The OP asked if she/he had been naive to think both schools might be a good fit, albeit in different ways. I think it is clear that there are obvious differences in the feel of the two campuses, in the varsity sports scene, perhaps in the backgrounds (very broadly speaking) of kids who attend the two schools. However, the fact that the campuses have some notable differences does not mean the same student would be unable to find happiness and success at both schools.</p>

<p>OP, I think your plan to visit both schools after decisions are out is a good plan.</p>

<p>As for the fraternity/sorority scene at Vanderbilt, overall there is a strong presence, but not in every school or major. If my son can serve as an example (n = 1, not good statistics, I know), students who do not join have no problems, socially. Using him as an example on the "dressy" issue, hahahaha. He arrived home last night with hair down to his shoulders, the grungiest beard I have ever seen, same old shorts and sandals as always. I WISH the Vanderbilt look would rub off on him.</p>

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<p>if you like the idea of going to u of chicago, you probably wont have to worry about all these "judging" issues if you go to vanderbilt. a lot of people talk about vu's greek life, but the group people talk about makes up a pretty small portion of undergrads. about 40% of students are in greek life, but only in my view only about 1/3 of those kids exemplify what people talk about. not everybody in fraternities and sororities dresses up for football games. not everybody goes out on weeknights. not everybody even drinks for that matter.</p>

<p>even with that considered, if you expect guys to not look at girls objectively, you have to forget preconceived notions about fraternities. its not like guys in the top houses will go around campus calling girls ugly...its just that not all girls choose to hang out with them. in other words, guys aren't actively judging girls based on their looks. they know the ones they want to hang out with and the ones they dont, and the girls they dont want to hang out with 95% of the time arent interested in hanging out with that fraternity anyway. so its a non-issue. a lot of the guys that pick vanderbilt, though, want to get a great education while hanging out with people they consider fun. fun can include different things for different people, but dont try to deny that, <strong>all other things equal</strong>, people will usually prefer to have more physically attractive friends. i'm sure there are a lot of nice and smart girls at u of chicago, but there are also a lot of nice and smart and attractive girls at vu. to each his own. </p>

<p>on a side note, i guarantee i would have a lower GPA at somewhere with less social life than i do at vanderbilt. good experiences in academics and social life are not mutually exclusive by any means.</p>