<p>My D was just offered a seat in both the U Del honors and Stevens Scholars and I'd appreciate input as to the merits of each from the community. Because of scholarship money from each program, money is roughly equal between the 2. She would live on campus for both programs. She's accepted into her major: Chem E in both, and she hopes to work in the development of secondary energy. She has been to each campus multiple times and enjoys both campuses. </p>
<p>HELP!</p>
<p>Both schools have excellent Engineering Programs, with UD possibly having a slight edge in Chem E. UD is a much larger school and has more females than males (I believe Stevens is about 3/4ths male). The social activities at UD are legion. Honors Program students at UD are moving into a brand new dormitory this Fall. In addition to its excellent current facilities UD is in the process of building a brand new Science/Engineering Complex on its South campus. Energy utilization/conservation is a major area of research at UD. Honor’s Program students in Engineering have many opportunities to become involved in research at UD. IMHO, because of the size difference, UD can provide a more well rounded college experience, if that is what one is interested in. Just some feedback for you. Good luck to your D in making her decision. Congrats on her acceptance to two such fine schools.</p>
<p>Thank you for these excellent points. I’ll share them with her as she tries to make this decision.</p>
<p>Being in DuPont Land, at UD Chemistry anything is very well funded and perked. Also, lots of internships. My D is in a Chemistry major and it is astounding how well taken care of they are. Which may or may not matter to your daughter and, frankly, she can’t go wrong with her choices. You must be very proud.</p>
<p>Not so fast. 
I like Stevens… with maybe one important reservation. </p>
<p>We’re comparing apples and oranges, as far as schools go. The settings are dramatically different. Newark, DE isn’t exactly in the middle of nowhere, but compared to the location of Stevens it is. IMHO, an overnight visit with some class attendance, if possible, should be made to both. I know Stevens will set this up for you. I imagine UD would too.</p>
<p>The difference between the schools is more about fit than “finish”. Although I prefer Stevens, I’m confident both schools will finish your daughter well.</p>
<p>Obligatory nod to rankings:
As far as USNews rankings go, both universities are tied at #75 in the country.</p>
<p>Payscale.com (ranks schools on graduate’s salaries) tells a different story…</p>
<p>Stevens is the #12 school in the country overall. UD is ranked 163.
<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2013/full-list-of-schools[/url]”>http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2013/full-list-of-schools</a></p>
<p>Stevens is the #5 engineering school in the country. UD doesn’t even make the list… because… let’s be frank… it’s not an engineering school.
[Engineering</a> Schools by Salary Potential ? PayScale College Salary Report 2012-13](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2013/engineering-schools]Engineering”>http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2013/engineering-schools)</p>
<p>As for student life and experience at the two schools, it would be a disservice not to again mention Steven’s location to NYC. It is immediately across the river from Manhattan, with a breathtaking view. A mere two blocks from a PATH train, so kids go into the city frequently and mingle with other universities… NYU, Columbia, Cooper Union, etc… </p>
<p>Yes, the UD experience might be more “typical college”, but the experience at Stevens would be a more sophisticated one due to the city’s influence.</p>
<p>For the sake of full disclosure, my son is a HS senior and selected Stevens. He was accepted for the 5 year masters, but missed scholar by 20 points on the SAT. He’s also a heck of an athlete and will play for Stevens.</p>
<p>The reservation I have about sending your daughter to Stevens would be the reason I’m excited for my son… the proximity and outings to NYC. Call me a male chauvinist pig with double standards, but as much as I’m excited by the experiences my son will have, I would be concerned for a daughter.</p>
<p>If you were talking about a son, I’d say Stevens is a slam dunk over UD. But I’m not so inclined because it’s a girl. </p>
<p>… although I’d love my son to meet and bring home a nice smart girl with similar goals from school. ;-)</p>
<p>We live in NYC and my daughter has more than a few friends who attend Stevens. It is an amazing, amazing, amazing school.</p>
<p>However, it is a small school with very specific programs and is more than 70% male. For my D, that is too lopsided, and several of her friends have transferred out for social reasons. That being the case, it is not for everyone, and my D just didn’t want any part of small schools, but that is her and has nothing to do with your wonderful daughter.</p>
<p>I always suggest that people look at the course catalogs in the last couple of choices to see if there is enough of interest over the four years and how often classes are given.</p>
<p>But again, your daughter can NOT go wrong.</p>
<p>Just for the record. The average starting salary for a UD Chemical Engineering graduate in 2010 was $66,700 (it is probably higher now). The average for Stevens (from the site noted by Maikai for Engineering in general) for 2012-2013 look like it was around $62,000-63,000.</p>
<p>University of Delaware ranks 10th in the nation for Chemical Engineering while Stevens ranks 91st for Chemical Engineering. </p>
<p>[Top</a> Engineering Schools | US Graduate School Rankings | Best Universities in USA | US News Rankings 2012 - 2013(1-100)](<a href=“http://www.university-list.net/us/rank/univ-20131039.htm]Top”>Top Biological / Agricultural Engineering Programs | US Graduate School Rankings | Best Engineering Schools in USA 2017 | Tuition | - Education Rankings)</p>
<p>I know this ranking is not everything but the difference between 10th and 91st should be a strong indication that University of Delaware is the much better school. On top of that, should your daughter decide to pursue a PhD in the field four years later she will be much better off with Delaware. The Graduate school in Stevens is not very selective with acceptance rate of 70+%. Maybe, it is just a cash cow to collect revenue for the school. I would picked Delaware if I were your daughter.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.stevens.edu/sit/sites/default/files/2011%20Student%20Outcome%20Report_5.9.12_Final.pdf[/url]”>https://www.stevens.edu/sit/sites/default/files/2011%20Student%20Outcome%20Report_5.9.12_Final.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“https://www.stevens.edu/sit/sites/default/files/Class_of_2012_Outcomes_Report_Final.pdf[/url]”>https://www.stevens.edu/sit/sites/default/files/Class_of_2012_Outcomes_Report_Final.pdf</a></p>
<p>Four years out may be more important.
KNow Stevens kids, all were male, mine a Udel grad of Engineering, the Steven grads gained employment quicker and the help they received in obtaining it was much stronger by ALOT.</p>
<p>Mwallenmd,</p>
<p>Statistically speaking, it is a foul to take two data points from two completely different sources and compare them. </p>
<p>The two figures probably measure two completely different populations. </p>
<p>In addition, something like Payscale is completely unbiased. The primary purpose of the site is not to rate schools. This data is simply gleaned from countless people providing their career data to obtain valuable data about their industry. There is no reason for these people to overstate incomes or benefits. It would screw up the very database they value.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are motivations for a school to… um… “massage”… their data to reflect the very best outcome for their graduates. 
One way many schools do this is by only reporting figures from graduates who return surveys. This is a statistical “No-No.” The measured population, almost by definition will be skewed towards those most satisfied with their outcomes. Disgruntled graduates of the school will be more likely to toss out the survey. Very pleased graduates will tend to return the survey and even be motivated to brag about their outcome. </p>
<p>One of the primary questions to ask a school when they announce employment/graduate school outcomes is “Are these survey results or is this data gleaned from your placement services data?”</p>
<p>From the disparity of the two figures. Your’s making UD incredibly successfull, yet an unbiased service sees the numbers so low as to not even rank them… tends to make be believe the school is using survey results.</p>
<p>SharpTech,</p>
<p>USNews ranking noted, but partially discounted. :-)</p>
<p>Don’t start me on the USNews rankings. They are, not doubt, a data point, and I sometimes refer to it, but IMHO, far too much emphasis is placed on their rankings. I much prefer unbiased measured data (Payscale.com) or subjective data (USNews).</p>
<p>I am an engineer. The first thing I want to know when I see a system is how it works. Ranking is a system. As soon as I pulled back the curtain on the USNews methodology, I was shocked. </p>
<p>For us parents, the 300 pound gorilla in the room is the question “How might my child succeed in his chosen career if he goes to this particular school?” It’s the unasked question of this thread, is it not?</p>
<p>Well… look into it for yourself. USNews doesn’t even include a data point for a graduate’s success in their field. Nothing. If you read their methodology, they say they use the Carnegie Foundation’s data, which doesn’t rank schools at all. It simply reports on things important to the education industry, not to the students. How USNews weights this data is unknown. But his only accounts for a part of the ranking. The rest of their ranking comes from opinions. Yes… opinions. They freely admit it is surveyed opinions of educators and guidance counselors. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but how can you have a ranking system with absolutely no regard to the quality, employability, and salary potential of their graduates. It just defies logic.</p>
<p>So although I would take the USNews ranking a single data point, this data point would not have carry much weight in any of my decisions for my child. It would be more of a tie breaker than a foundation decision maker.</p>
<p>I urge anyone who disagrees with me to research the methodology of the USNews ranking system themselves. It can be easily navigated to in their website. It speaks for itself.</p>
<p>samiamy,
Thanks for those links. Stuff like that makes me feel better and better about my son’s decision to attend Stevens!</p>
<p>The data from these documents also backs up one of my sneaking suspicions about the data coming from Payscale.com. I’ve long suspected the salary figures, across the board, would be generally depressed due to my idea that a well paid successful person would be happier and less likely to want a comparison of their salary to their industry. A lower paid, unhappy professional should be more likely to visit websites such as payscale, indeed, glass ceiling, etc… Therefore, the higher pays would go under represented and the lower pays would go over represented in their database. This is another reason you can’t compare numbers from two different analyses.</p>
<p>Maikai, how does your son feel about the gender imbalance?</p>
<p>zoosermom,
Well… … He’s not so happy about it, but he still made the decision himself to go there. He really liked the school and access to NYC. He stayed overnight with guys on the team. They said there are a lot of opportunities to mingle with girls from the other MetroNY schools (Columbia, NYU, etc…). You just have to make the effort.</p>
<p>I would like to believe he wants to dedicated the time to his degree. I shared with him my experiences as an engineering student. The ratio of men to women was far worse when I went to school (did not attend Stevens). I had girlfriends in High School, but I had girl-friends in college. I hope you get the more than subtle difference. ;-)</p>
<p>I told him it was well worth the dry spell. He sees my(our) life now and I think he agrees with me.</p>
<p>I am very glad that your son is happy with his decision! Sounds like he has a great attitude (I wonder where he gets that from!).</p>
<p>My D would have really had a problem with such a skewed ratio because she is one who likes a large group of girlfriends. I can see the ratio being either positive or negative for some kids. I wonder how the OP’s daughter will feel about it. Maybe she will be happy to have a lot of potential guy friends.</p>
<p>The only downside for a girl would be the relentless pursuit they would have to endure. If they like attention, it would be Nirvana. 
If they didn’t… :-(</p>
<p>One of the major differences between the 2 schools is the Grad School. With the Scholars program @ Stevens she can take classes over the summers with free tuition which allows her to obtain her Masters in 4 years. U Del prioritizes their PhD program, but told my daughter that they seldom admit students from their undergrad program, preferring to enhance the diversity of their PhD research interests by drawing from other universities. As my D will need her Masters, the path @ Stevens would be much simpler than that @ UD.</p>
<p>It appears from a money/time/degree perspective that Stevens would be the most efficacious way to go as long as your D would feel comfortable going there. I am a little surprised to hear that the UD ChemE Ph.D Program prefers students from other universities. It is too bad as the students in the Chem E Ph.D Program are fully funded. Best of luck to your D in making her decision. As I said in my first post both schools have excellent Chem E Programs.</p>
<p>Makai, many girls are less interested in masculine attention than in making a lifelong group of supportive female friends and simply wouldn’t be happy in a school like Stevens.</p>
<p>The PayScale “Engineering Schools by Salary Potential” may be misleading, perhaps because of what fits their definition on an “engineering school.” Note that they list Pennsylvania College of Technology which is an affiliate of Penn State but not where one goes to get an actual engineering degree. Penn Tech is on the list but not Penn State or Pitt? They must be averaging all majors within these large universities and not looking at just the salaries of the engineering graduates.
Pharryn, I would suggest that your daughter attend UD Decision Days in April if possible. She will have the opportunity to meet with students in the Honors program and ask them directly about their experiences. She’ll also see the beauty of the UD campus if the weather obliges. It’s a good time to get a feel for who your fellow students will be, a factor that can have a big influence on the quality of one’s undergraduate experience. She can also better decide then whether a traditional college town vs an urban setting holds more appeal for her.
If she graduates as a ChemE from either of the two schools she’ll have very strong employment potential. I hope she loves her college experience, too!</p>