<p>Can’t edit for some reason. Only “combined” is supposed to be in italics.</p>
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<p>I think you forgot the sarcasm tags here. </p>
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<p>I think this is true.</p>
<p>I’m also not completely convinced it matters in quite the way a lot of us think it ought to matter. </p>
<p>If we want D1 sports, and it would seem, based on the sheer profitability of D1 sports that we do, then maybe we need to find another way. There is no reason to believe that all great football or basketball players will be great students. Let’s be realistic. 30% of Americans have college degrees. It stands to reason, then, in even THE MOST simplistic modeling, that only 30% of great athletes will be capable of doing college level work. (I assume this is not an actual stat, so please don’t nail me on the math or methodology. There is no math and no methadology, simple extrapolation, and simplistic assumption. thank you in advance. )</p>
<p>If we want ALL the best athletes to play d1, the way we want all the best mathletes to attend top schools, maybe we just need to offer the other 70% a different degree. </p>
<p>Otherwise, honestly, we are very dishonest, which of course we are, as a culture.</p>
<p>(Yes, I know the ivies don’t have these type of student athletes, but the ivies don’t have these athletes either. fwiw)</p>
<p>The problem is that most colleges don’t want their football teams to play like Ivy League teams.</p>
<p>Post #291; excellent, Twoinanddone.</p>
<p>Poetgrl, you might be surprised how many Ivy League and other elite college athletes have pro-level potential. Yes, most brainy athletes will choose a D1 school because sports are emphasized there…such athletes have a profound desire to become a pro. However, many smart athletes are realistic about the “pro-league lottery;” knowing that the opportunities for a professional career are slim (and typically brief even if they get there), these young men attend elite colleges (if they can afford it through the ordinary student financial aid system) to take advantage of the connections and career opportunities that an elite degree can provide. There are only a few elite schools that have equally elite sports programs; Stanford, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke.</p>
<p>Notice that those places are private schools. Sad to say, the elite public colleges that operate D1 programs, such as Michigan, California-Berkeley, Minnesota…have had dubious athletic department practices in their pasts.</p>
<p>@lakewashington. I actually wouldn’t be surprised. I expect a similar number of athletes are quite as bright as those in the general population. A finite number. </p>
<p>I also think if a student is a talented athlete but not a superstar student, he/she ought to get a useful education in exchange for playing for the team. Revenue sports, even at schools operating at a loss, tend to defray costs significantly. In SEC, B1g, ACC etc… they create jobs, and pay for the department. </p>
<p>For some of these athletes a useful
Education might be in sports, for others training as EMTs, for some, something else. But, right now, we are not serving the actual student. We are serving a myth. JMO</p>
<p>I think the problem is that if NCAA really enforced its rules vigorously, the result would be that a bunch of people wouldn’t get a college education OR get to play football. The current system pays off for those who make it to the pros, and maybe even for some of the others who, even though they don’t really have a college education, may end up with a better job than if they’d never gotten to play college ball at all. But some people end up much worse off than if they’d never gone to college at all.</p>
<p>Eh. There’s really no evidence that attending some college and not graduating is harmful. In fact, the opposite is true. </p>
<p>The majority of non revenue athletes graduate. Many of them do very well. Most “exemptions” are used for revenue athletes, for a reason. </p>
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<p>Note that the Ivy League is an NCAA Division 1 athletic conference.</p>
<p>I’m very proud of my Badgers for trying to have a top sports programs and maintain reasonable academic stds for income sports athletes. Some examples</p>
<p><a href=“Wisconsin football recruiting: LB Mohamed Barry decommits from Badgers - Bucky's 5th Quarter”>Wisconsin football recruiting: LB Mohamed Barry decommits from Badgers - Bucky's 5th Quarter;
<p><a href=“Marcus, Michael Trotter relish being twin linebackers for Wisconsin - Bucky's 5th Quarter”>Marcus, Michael Trotter relish being twin linebackers for Wisconsin - Bucky's 5th Quarter;
<p>Star RB</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/melvin_gordon_764894.html”>http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/melvin_gordon_764894.html</a></p>
<p>QB</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/joel_stave_749560.html”>http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/joel_stave_749560.html</a></p>
<p>You know, there are students who are just lazy and some of them are athletes. They are capable of the work, but just don’t do it. My brother played a year at college, and he’s a genius, but skipped class a lot and just dropped out. He then spent a lot of time writing papers and taking tests for others, one at Hopkins. He’s very smart. Very lazy.</p>
<p>twoinanddone, I bet your brother’s SAT scores were higher than 400-400. (Or the ACT equivalent.)</p>
<p>Of course they were, but he doesn’t have a college degree and many of his friends with sub 1000 scores (olden days, out of 1600) do. Sometimes slow and steady wins the race.</p>
<p>His son, also a genius, had ACT 35 and SAT 2300+. Still doesn’t have a college degree. He’s rather lazy too (not a college athlete, just a regular ‘sometimes’ student).</p>
<p>“I think the problem is that if NCAA really enforced its rules vigorously, the result would be that a bunch of people wouldn’t get a college education OR get to play football.”</p>
<p>The NCAA does vigorously enforce its rules. All high school athletes must be certified by the NCAA Eligibility Center before they can compete in college. The Eligibility center reviews the students official high school transcripts and test scores and will review any suspicious transcripts and will arrange a site visit for any suspicious high schools. The Council of Ivy Group Presidents endorses the NCAA rules and the NCAA Eligibility center. </p>
<p>The following is from the Ivy League Manual:</p>
<p>“Application of Ivy rules-First-year students participating in NCAA sports must have NCAA initial eligibility certified by the NCAA Eligibility Center. First-year students only participating in non-NCAA sports (e.g. sprint football, men’s rowing, men’s squash) do not have to have initial eligibility certified.”</p>
<p>“National and regional rules-It is the intention of the members of the Ivy Group to subscribe to the principles and practices approved by the National Collegiate Athletic Association, the Eastern College Athletic Conference, and other regional or national governing bodies which the Group may join, and to keep abreast of the annual amendments and special rulings of these bodies. Ivy rules and NCAA and ECAC rules may differ in general scope, detail or both. In most instances Ivy regulations are more restrictive, but there are instances in which the reverse is true. The more important differences between Ivy and NCAA rules are noted in Parts VI and X-G of this Manual, but the NCAA Manual should be consulted directly as necessary. Eligibility officers and athletic administrators should take the greatest care to assist students and coaches in applying differences between Ivy and national rules.” </p>
<p>UCalumnus, Ivy football is not D1 level. Used to be…up until the late 1980s, I believe. Back then the test was the budget of the athletic department AND the size of the stadium. At the time, only Harvard and Yale could have continued to qualify as D1-A football programs. The NCAA has revised the qualifications for major programs so many times in recent years that I can’t keep up. As for other sports, the Ivy League remains at the top (i.e. D1 or whatever they call it these days) level. In the near future you may see the basketball-only schools divide themselves from the football playing colleges. Witness the breakup of the Big East Conference. My guess is that the NCAA will try to keep the basketball schools happy because a significant share of the B-Ball tournament revenue goes to the NCAA (remember, it’s called the “NCAA” Tournament), whereas the NCAA gets no money from the football bowl games or the dead and gone BCS title game, as I understand it. The bowl games were individual contracts between schools/conferences and the Bowl organizations and their TV Network sponsors.</p>
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<p>Ivy League is an NCAA Division I conference, including for football. However, it is in the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly I-AA), not the Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly I-A).</p>
<p><a href=“College Football Standings - 2023 FCS (I-AA) Standings - ESPN”>http://espn.go.com/college-football/standings/_/group/81</a></p>
<p>re: 304: “There are only a few elite schools that have equally elite sports programs; Stanford, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke”.</p>
<p>Cornell has a good intramural program (or it used to anyway). It fields teams in a variety of sports.
It used to be dominant in hockey, but that was a long time ago. Now it is usually pretty good, but not like the old days.
It is sporadically good in lacrosse.
It is good in wrestling, and maybe track sometimes.
It was good in basketball for about two years, by a fluke.</p>
<p>It would be embarrassing to many alumni, or at least to me, if it was regularly a major power in major sports,like those other schools.Those schools have to play against the teams in their respective leagues. Cornell only has to aspire be competitive in the Ivy League. I would rather it was good in college bowl or college jeopardy something, than in major college football or basketball. Though the fluke was exciting.</p>
<p>You’re right, Cornell doesn’t belong in the same conversation as Stanford, Duke and Northwestern when it comes to athletics. </p>
<p>Most on Duke’s basketball team have pretty low SAT. It’s a dirty and open secret within Duke; they like that most outsiders don’t know about it. </p>
<p>Notre Dame? Georegetown?</p>