U of Chicago = Underrated

<p>S1 who is an incoming freshman this fall is interning this summer in a well known Wall Street firm. I am pleasantly surprised to be told by my son that the top management team made a bit ado about him going to Chicago this fall, like good natured jokes about “where fun goes to die” and “Wow, congratulations!”. When senior executives introduce him to others, they make a point of mentioning that he is going to UChicago this fall. (I also thought before that U Chicago brand is underrated and just not powerful considering its true strength).</p>

<p>Apparently where it matters (like professional settings and academia), U Chicago brand is very strong. So, who cares if Joe Schmoe and Jane Doe in central Wyoming never heard of U Chicago. I couldn’t care less.</p>

<p>That said, I am all in favor of efforts to bring UChicago’s perceived prestige to the level where it should be, since it will attract stronger student body and that makes UChicago education even more compelling.</p>

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<p>Ah, yes, exactly. If you care about the name of your school, and you don’t get into your first choice name school, then you might feel a little bit bummed and you might carry that bummed feeling with you to whatever non-first-choice-school you go to. </p>

<p>I would make the argument that Chicago has a very strong name (Enrico Fermi, Freakonomics, Obama, Chicago Manual of Style, Everyday Math, Milton Friedman, Kohlberg and moral development, the Chicago Boys, the Chicago School of Sociology, the development of carbon-14 dating, Indiana Jones, the genetic links to cancer, ad infinitum)-- it’s just not a name that is immediately recognizable on a sweatshirt. However, I have experienced the “This is unalove from the University of Chicago” phenomenon that hyjeonlee mentioned.</p>

<p>FWIW, if I wanted to wear a college sweatshirt that would garner the most praise in my neck of the woods, I’d probably be best off wearing a Fordham or Georgetown sweatshirt.</p>

<p>At a dinner with a Harvard prof (now retired) I introduced my kids. He asked S1 where he attended school. S1 told him the University of Chicago. “Oh,” he said, “so you decided to actually get an education, there is simply no other place like Chicago.” S1 asked him, not even Harvard? He leaned back chuckled and said, “Not even close.” He went on to elaborate. The point is, while Chicago may not be well known in some circles, in academe it is regarded as second to none in educating undergraduates.</p>

<p>idad is absolutely correct about Chicago’s reputation in the academic community. I live adjacent to the Yale campus and know many professors and administrators at the school. Whenever I mention that my child goes to U of Chicago they get extremely enthusiastic and tell me how it really is an incredible school. One tenured professor of history said that Yale is a walk in the park compared to Chicago. A graduate school administrator told me that they would rather have students from Chicago than anywhere else. So, if you are interested in an academic career and an incredible education which is recognized where it matters worldwide, Chicago is right up there at the top.</p>

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Of course, this shouldn’t lead to a sense of complacency. The reality is that Chicago students don’t outperform their peers in graduate placement. Chicago is certainly a very good feeder school in my field, but I have seen many excellent students from Penn, Berkeley, Yale, UNC, Michigan, Brown, UCLA, and others.</p>

<p>Coming from a family loaded with faculty members at several Ivy and other top-caliber schools, I am yet another voice confirming the high esteem accorded to Chicago by academics. </p>

<p>To the extent that people vote with their tuition dollars, I have wondered if Chicago is disproportionately the school of choice for kids hailing from academic families. I know of several “faculty brats” fortunate enough to have been accepted at a range of excellent schools who’ve chosen Chicago with the full support of their families (our son included). For us, the only factor that gave pause was the geographic one (pretty much every other school of interest is literally or figuratively within a stone’s throw, while Chicago involves significantly lengthier travel). Our son being a perfect exemplar of the Chicago “type” for whom intellectual inquiry reigns supreme (a value in Judaism referred to as “lishma” [for its own sake]), the distance factor was easily trumped by our knowledge that Chicago would provide a college experience suited to him much better than that offered by other schools.</p>

<p>From reading this thread, the general sentiment seems to be that Chicago is very well respected in academic circles, and under-appreciated in other spheres. The problem with this view is it tends to put Chicago in too much of a niche - enjoying high respect within a very small, generally closed-off and slight portion of the population, and then lacking that respect outside of that very small area. </p>

<p>Now, for certain schools, being “self-selective,” having a reputation for eccentricity, appealing more to a niche market, etc. are enviable goals to keeping the character and atmosphere of a place. For example, Reed College, a very small liberal arts college, can thrive on this model. It’s purpose is to educate a very small group of students, and to keep a consistent atmosphere available to appeal to future types of those students. In short, as a small LAC, it can thrive as a niche-player. </p>

<p>Chicago, however, is a relatively large, comprehensive research university. It’s goals, ostensibly, differ from Reed’s. With a student body maybe 4 times as large as Reed’s, varied academic departments, a large budget, etc., I don’t think the niche market (being greatly respected in academia, not as much outside of it) works well or offers Chicago any tangible benefits. </p>

<p>As President Zimmer has stated, his goal is to make the University of Chicago the BEST university. Like it or not, from Harvard to Stanford to Columbia to Emory, research universities that are national in scope share a certain level of uniformity. Moreover, for continued success on this front, it doesn’t make much sense for Chicago to continue to cement it’s niche place on the market when it aspires to be the BEST American university.</p>

<p>According to a lot of scholarship on the matter, in the early 20th century, Harvard, Yale, etc. came to an important conclusion about top universities: In America, social catchet matters a great deal, and a university derives much of its success by being well connected to the societal mechanisms of power. Academics still mattered, of course, but social catchet was perhaps the driving force behind the decisions made at a top university. A couple decades later, Chicago decided to go in the other direction by arguing that, for a university, the absolute most important factor - above all else - was its intellectual capital. Intellectual horsepower matters more than anything else. </p>

<p>At that time, in terms of finances and clout, Chicago, Harvard, and Yale were all about on the same page. In the decades that followed, with Harvard et al. using their metric and Chicago using their “brains above all else” scheme, a significant divergence between the schools became readily apparent. Chicago developed a niche - it was the “academic” school - whereas Harvard, Yale, etc. enjoyed success across a broader range of fields. Chicago produced some amazing ideas, scholars, teachers, and thinkers, but pretty much all of these graduates remained linked to the one area Chicago emphasized: academics. Harvard et al., on the other hand, continually produced leaders, entrepreneurs, billionaires, etc. that made their mark on the broader swath of society. Don’t forget, Harvard etc. also made their fair share of contributions to the academic realm. </p>

<p>By the mid 1990s, the error in Chicago’s decision had more or less been revealed. While Harvard and Yale enjoyed multi-billion dollar endowments, a loyal and active alumni base, and continued success of its alums across an impressively wide spectrum of arenas, Chicago was struggling considerably. Hamstrung by a paltry endowment, utilizing an admissions strategy that just looked for warm bodies rather than top talent, and with a largely disillusioned group of current students, the school was certainly not doing well. </p>

<p>The Chicago approach had failed. </p>

<p>Now, about 15 years removed from the nadir, Chicago has more or less adopted the strategies found at Harvard and Yale. In short, in the american model for education, a university MUST be more than mere academics to thrive and compete with its peers. For better or worse, elite universities serve an important societal function in america, and STILL remain well-connected to the avenues of power. </p>

<p>I say all this because, simply maintaining its good name in the academic sphere is NOT enough. Zimmer and other administrators, however, recognize this, and are making the appropriate decisions. A university’s social capital and social catchet may be nearly as important as its intellectual capital. For decades, Chicago tried its “academics above all else” experiment, and, in terms of the health of the university, it largely failed. That model may work great for a small LAC by Reed, but that is NOT what the U of C is. </p>

<p>One other point - hyeonjlee - that’s great your son is receiving some approving comments regarding his college decision. Also, since I think your son wants a rigorous, varied education, Chicago will be a great place. At the same time, I don’t think Chicago is any more respected than Princeton, Wharton, etc. in the business world. We have to be careful when we determine just where Chicago’s strengths lie - it excels in the academic arena, but in no other area does it hold a significant lead over its peers.</p>

<p>Put another way, a Chicago student will have great options following college. Moreover, if you want a great education, Chicago’s a great bet. At the same time, a Chicago grad will not be any more coveted than grads from its peer schools in the professional world (law, business, etc.). From what I can find, there is no evidence that a Chicago student, similarly situated to his Princeton counterpart, will enjoy any advantage in terms of professional opportunities.</p>

<p>Nice balance between “Teacher of Teachers” and “Primus inter pares” should make everybody happy then. New Dean of Admissions comes from Yale. Let’s see how that works into Zimmer’s plans. It may be just what UofC needs, however much I like O’Neill.</p>

<p>Thank you, Daggerman and phuriku, for understanding what I was trying to say.</p>

<p>We can hope that a balance will be struck. The country does not need another HYP, but it does need to have at least one university where intellectual inquiry is valued above all else. I believe that Zimmer will preserve that which is so clearly Chicago even as a modern approach is developed. He committed to that in is inaugural address, let us hope he is true to his word ([President</a> Robert J. Zimmer’s Inaugural Convocation Address](<a href=“University of Chicago News”>University of Chicago News))</p>

<p>lol, ■■■■■■■■</p>

<p>If you consider this ■■■■■■■■, I wonder why you’re not breaking into tears in the rest of the big bad internet.</p>

<p>I think the guy was just trying to give a compliment with a not so good execution. Just read it and move on.</p>

<p>I’m not going to read this whole thread, because i’m lazy… but…</p>

<p>I agree with OP. I was very close to going to UChicago this fall, and I question everyday if it was a good choice. Now, I would be absolutely surprised if i don’t fall in love with my school within a month or two, but I suspect I will always wonder what UC would have been like. I too was drawn in by a “bigger” name (with the public. i know that among academia and law school admissions UC is well known. But i’m a person who just needs that ego boost. at least i admit it…) and a better city (NYC). </p>

<p>My preferential rankings:
H,Y
Columbia, P, UChicago
Brown, Dartmouth, Duke… etc…</p>

<p>^^ What’s most important at the end of the day is that you’ve contemplated your decision and you have concrete reasons for wanting the school that you want. Chicago and Columbia have a lot in common, and if Columbia’s ivy is a tiebreaker that’s not a bad thing.</p>

<p>I think students end up getting burned (and tend to be less happy with their college experience overall) when they come into the process not knowing what they want, but knowing they want to pursue it at an elite school. It’s a recipe for disaster, as the student is going to arrive on campus without much thought as to how or why the school they chose does or does not fit their needs.</p>

<p>My only concern is that UC is a better undergrad for my dumb preferences - big campus, gothic architecture, hogwarts-like student population- and Columbia is a better graduate school - awesome access to Yuppie social life and job opportunities. Oh well… </p>

<p>I’m sure i will retract that statement in only a month or so’s time. Sorry for hijacking this thread! Just getting rid of angst</p>

<p>I know this thread is dated two years ago, but I must say that I have nothing but respect for U of C. Although none of my siblings attended (out of six . . . parents were a bit perplexed) we all have admiration for its faculty, students and the proposed university mission. Keep it up!</p>