U of M vs. MSU

Colleges and Universities A-Z Michigan State University
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Wow, how did I not see this before?</p>

<p>Really, now? Really? Of course I’d like to be a successful and independent individual. My father currently makes $0 and collects unemployment, and my mom makes just enough to pay for the mess that’s been created by their divorce and living expenses of my sister and myself. My dad also happened to be a great engineer and businessperson in his day, and a friend of his is a Northwestern grad who is currently a donor and wrote me an essay to back up a sterling academic reputation. In fact, I’ll most likely end up paying for both my parents in their later years, not the other way around. And even if I wanted to go to Northwestern, it’s not in the financial stars. So thanks for that keen analysis of a situation you obviously have no knowledge of. Jackass.</p>

<p>ANYWAYS, back on topic. :slight_smile: I just got accepted to U of M this morning (Go Blue!) and now that the initial excitement has worn off, I still find myself drawn to James Madison. A couple other questions… how good is the Political Theory and Constitutional Deomcracy degree? The school seems to focus more on International Relations than anything else. Also, would it be possible to dual-major in both of these, and how uncommon is that practice? </p>

<p>Oh, and one other thing… I’m awful at math. U of M has no real math requirement, but State does. How are entry-level math classes there, and what’s the easiest way to fill these requrements?</p>

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<p>how good is the Political Theory and Constitutional Deomcracy degree? The school seems to focus more on International Relations than anything else. Also, would it be possible to dual-major in both of these, and how uncommon is that practice? </p>

<p>Oh, and one other thing… I’m awful at math. U of M has no real math requirement, but State does. How are entry-level math classes there, and what’s the easiest way to fill these requrements? </p>

<p>The Political Theory and Constitutional Democracy degree (called PTCD for short) is an excellent degree, but primarily is great for those who are especially interested in going to law school/those who want a better perspective on political philosophy. I’d say that the faculty in PTCD are the best teachers in the college. While the degree is not as well-known due to its specificity, it is still a great major to undertake. The main reason why international relations is most well-known is because 1/2 of James Madison are international relations majors, not necessarily because it is the best program within James Madison. It would be EASILY possible to double or dual major in both of these - loads of people (at least 25%) double major within james madison college. And honestly…I don’t know a madison student who isn’t majoring/minoring in at least 2 different things (Journalism and international relations, PTCD and international relations, Comparative cultures/international relations, international relations/art history, econ/comparative cultures & politics, Pre-med and PTCD, etc. etc. the combinations are endless).</p>

<p>As a james madison major you are only required to take 1 math class to graduate. As far as entry-level math, there is math 103, math 116, and math 124 (these are the most commonly taken ones). None of these entry-level math classes are impossibly difficult, depending on what level of math you test into (before AOP or at AOP you will have to take a math placement exam that determines the class you should likely go into). As a madison student, you will not be alone as the large majority of madison students are math-dysfunctional.</p>

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<p>Awesome, that’s all good to know! Fa la, any professors in JMad that you would recommend avoiding? Also, how are Freshman classes? I’ve taken AP Lit and Comp and consider myself a fairly capable writer, but everyone is always telling me how hard the writing class is. My friend, however, whose writing skills I consider to be comparable to my own, says the class is a boring, derivative waste of time for anyone who’s taken a significant amount of AP/IB classes. Is this what you found? </p>

<p>Oh, and I know you’re a chick, and I don’t want this to sound degrading, but how’s the female situation there? Because when I visited Case, there weren’t many worthy of a double-take. (Yes, I know, I’m a misogynistic ■■■■■■■, sue me haha). </p>

<p>And one more thing… would you consider the majority of James Madison kids to be intellectuals? I assumed that, but when I toured, I overheard a girl complaining about a class where all they talked about was “some Mark guy.” It was a class on Marxism. :confused: Hopefully this isn’t representative of most?</p>

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<p>Fa la, any professors in JMad that you would recommend avoiding? Also, how are Freshman classes? I’ve taken AP Lit and Comp and consider myself a fairly capable writer, but everyone is always telling me how hard the writing class is. My friend, however, whose writing skills I consider to be comparable to my own, says the class is a boring, derivative waste of time for anyone who’s taken a significant amount of AP/IB classes. Is this what you found? </p>

<p>As far as professors to avoid…all of the tenured professors are great (people have their preferences, but I can honestly say I’ve enjoyed all the Madison professors I’ve had thus far). The only ones that are not as good are the ones who haven’t been in James madison college for a while (i.e. a visiting professor)…Fetters I hear is a biotch, but I don’t know if she’s even teaching with James Madison next year. As far as how hard the writing class is, it is tough. I took AP lit and lang, and am a pretty good writer as well…but even I thought it was rather difficult. It really comes down to what teacher you get, what books you read and what assignments you have to complete (it can be boring at times, as it is an hour and 50 minutes-long class, but most professors are interesting enough to hold your interest at least part of the time). </p>

<p>But overall, the 1st year madison writing class is a pain. It isn’t as hard as you may hear from some people, but it is definitely challenging (in a good way). The highest grade for my class on the 1st madison paper we got back was a 2.2/4.0. Don’t let this discourage you…professors grade on participation and improvement/progress, although very few james madison classes are easy to 4.0. The intro. to public policy class was a lot easier for me than the writing class was - although I always fell asleep in the huge lectures I really liked the discussion class. </p>

<p>Oh, and I know you’re a chick, and I don’t want this to sound degrading, but how’s the female situation there? Because when I visited Case, there weren’t many worthy of a double-take. (Yes, I know, I’m a misogynistic ■■■■■■■, sue me haha). </p>

<p>No offense taken…this is a complaint that I often hear from my guy friends, haha. James madison girls aren’t known for their hotness, to state it bluntly. A lot of them are rather homely looking, not to say that they are ugly but in comparison to the rest of campus, they aren’t quite as pretty - although there are still quite a few gorgeous ones, especially amongst my friends ;). Overall though, we have a pretty good-looking campus so don’t think it will be an issue whatsoever. If you don’t like the selection of girls in case, there are thousands of girls elsewhere (in nearby dorms of wonders, wilson, holden etc). </p>

<p>And one more thing… would you consider the majority of James Madison kids to be intellectuals? I assumed that, but when I toured, I overheard a girl complaining about a class where all they talked about was “some Mark guy.” It was a class on Marxism. :confused: Hopefully this isn’t representative of most? </p>

<p>It varies. We are more intellectual than the average MSU student, but there are also a lot of us who simply like to talk (and people often get this confused with intelligence). Even smart kids say stupid crap like that…trust me, if you want to have serious intellectual discussion there are plenty of students who are up for the challenge here. But if you want to get wasted every other night and could care less about getting an education, there a few of those too.</p>

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<p>fa-la-la-lena, do you mind if I ask what you ended up getting in the intro writing class as well as your overall GPA? I’ve been accepted at JMC and I just got deferred from UM, so it’s looking like I’ll be going to MSU, but I’m getting a little worried about the difficulty of the classes.</p>

<p>Also, do you know how hard it is to get an exemption from the math requirement by doing well on the AOP placement test? I think you need like a 19 or so, but I don’t have any idea what that would be comparable with. Thanks.</p>

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<p>fa-la-la-lena, do you mind if I ask what you ended up getting in the intro writing class as well as your overall GPA? I’ve been accepted at JMC and I just got deferred from UM, so it’s looking like I’ll be going to MSU, but I’m getting a little worried about the difficulty of the classes.</p>

<p>In MC 111 I got a 3.5, while MC 112 I got a 3.0. Overall GPA 1st year - 3.5. Overall if you are looking for a challenge - James madison classes are definitely challenging. But if you put some effort into your classes, you won’t fail or even do poorly. Unlike most other classes where a few test grades make or break your grade, james madison grades are a bit more subjective, based off how the professor sees your performance in the class through participation, essays, class discussions, simulations etc. </p>

<p>Also, do you know how hard it is to get an exemption from the math requirement by doing well on the AOP placement test? I think you need like a 19 or so, but I don’t have any idea what that would be comparable with. Thanks. </p>

<p>It was not hard at all for me…I am a student who took AP calc my senior year but generally hates math, so take this with a grain of salt (from what i can remember, it was easier than SAT or ACT math. You need a 19, but i think this is out of 30+ questions? not really sure, but it is definitely doable). Just to make sure you know, the only way you can get an exemption from the math requirement is if you take the proctored version of the placement test (not the online version).</p>

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<p>Thanks, fa-la-la-lena. That’s what I expected, everyone tells me JMC profs are really tough graders, especially at the beginning. Not that I’m afraid of working hard, but I’m not sure if it’s worth it to do more work for a lower GPA. Since my plan is to eventually go to law school I’d like to have at least a 3.7 so I have a shot at some of the elite schools.</p>

<p>I’m also actually thinking about applying to Ohio State (I know, sacrilege in MI), since they’ll cover full tuition. How would you say they compare to JMC in terms of prestige, quality, and placement?</p>

<p>Did you study at all for the math test? I’m also in Calc and I also hate math, but if it’s concepts only extend to ACT/SAT standards, I think I"ll be okay. Thanks again for all the info!</p>

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<p>Nope didn’t study at all for the math test. I think more than a quarter of James madison grads end up in law school? So getting the GPA won’t be a problem, if you make the effort. Honestly I know very little about Ohio State…but they don’t offer an international relations major nor do they have anything as specific as political theory/constitutional democracy (the programs at ohio state seem a lot more general, and also not in a residential college setting). While their political science dept might be comparable, i’d argue that you would get more specialized attention at msu and that the environment of getting to know your professors/professional connections you make here through james madison college are invaluable.</p>

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<p>I’m know a reasonable amount of JMC students go on to law school, I was more curious as to the caliber of those schools. I did some more research, IR is offered as a major and it’s actually supposedly one of their most popular. For what it’s worth, USNR ranks OSU’s PS Dept as 13 in the country, and the London School of Economics ranked it 4th best in the world…But I don’t put a ton of stock in rankings.</p>

<p>The specificity and individualization of JMC is one of its major attractions for me, but I think I might actually prefer the generality of OSU, just in case I decide IR/PS isn’t it for me it seems like I’d have more options.</p>

<p>Probably the biggest thing for me, like I said before, is that I have a really good shot at full tuition at OSU, and for some reason, a better shot at Honors college. My stats (32 ACT, 2160 SAT, NM Semi-Finalist, 3.732 GPA) have gotten me nothing from MSU so far; no scholarships, no Honors, not even ASP.</p>

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<p>^^^For the record, OSU offers an international studies major with a international relations concentration, which is still quite different from an international relations major, generally-more focused on cultural/historical/interdisciplinary aspects rather than law/policy/war (although it still may be an excellent program). As far as the caliber of law schools, pretty much every law school there is has or had a james madison student attending (james madison college is not limiting in any way…). Also, loads of students double major (and it is very easy to switch majors at MSU) so I wouldn’t be worried about being stuck on one certain subject or not having many options if you realize that it is not for you. </p>

<p>That is a real bummer about not getting scholarships yet though…your stats are excellent, unfortunately i think the ACT cut-off for getting a bunch of scholarships through the honors college is 33, and you have to be in the top 5-10% of your class ranking-wise. Otherwise you can wait it out and see…with any luck, they may send some scholarships your way (and you are likely qualified to be invited to Alumni distinguished scholarship (ADS) weekend held in February which, if you perform well on a test potentially could get a full-ride).</p>