U of Wash., Occidental, American, GWU, or Berkeley? Environmental Science Programs?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>At first these seems like an easy choice, and my dream is Berkeley, but I received nothing from them as expected, so my choices are much more complicated than I first imagined. </p>

<p>I can afford UW for all four years. Oxy, GWU, and American all gave me similar amounts of aid and I would accumulate around $20k to $50k in debt depending on what happens with work, future financial aid, etc. Berkeley would be well over $120k in debt. </p>

<p>My dream is to help solve this world's environmental problems. I don't know what path I will take to do so, but I think I am leaning toward building a strong scientific foundation and earning a law degree later to work in policy. I want a diverse school with many voices and ideas where I will have small classes, but also many excellent professors. I want a student body focused on learning, not drinking. I also want to spark my activism and leadership in college. I hope to grow in college and face many challenges that will prepare me for the adult and working world without fear. </p>

<p>I love Berkeley for its programs, history of activism, its location (I dream to live in the Bay Area), and the caliber of its education. Berkeley has been motivating me for years and now I am struggling to let go of it as a dream despite the stress I will be under with the debt. </p>

<p>UW is my reasonable choice. I discovered today through some more research that the environmental programs are not bad like I believed they were, in fact they appear to be some of the best in the country. However I was hoping to leave Washington for college and since I was rejected from the Honors College unexpectedly I am not looking forward to the academic setting if I go. Nevertheless I feel quite comfortable with UW, and I know it would be a wonderful school; I just don't have the enthusiasm I hold for all my other choices. </p>

<p>Oxy is the one school I haven't visited, and probably cannot in time. However I was surprised by the school in many ways after attending a reception this week and speaking to alumni and school officials. I feel like a LAC is actually a great fit for me, and Oxy has many fantastic programs. I hate the tininess of Oxy with less than 2000 students total and I really never thought I would want to go to an LAC. I've been on the campus, but at Christmas time and it seemed like a wonderful place to be. I worry a little about the prestige and the cost because it is still some considerable debt, but I think it might be better for someone like me who can often struggle to get by at times and shine at other moments. </p>

<p>I am starting to doubt how much I'll like GWU and American. I don't know if I want to do policy especially going right into undergrad, and I think I want a stronger scientific basis in the environment. I love DC, and I will be visiting next week. I hear GWU is a little snooty and American doesn't seem particularly challenging or inspiring. </p>

<p>I need some help here. I really would like to hear how much debt is worth going to college for and also what environmental programs are really worth my money and time. Where will I feel comfortable, yet still challenged to face the world? </p>

<p>Thanks!!</p>

2

<p>AU doesn’t have really strong sciences, they are strong in policy. THe student body is very politically oriented, if that’s what you like. Because they are in DC, they offer opportunities to internship during the year that others schools can’t. They also are good preparation for law school.</p>

3

<p>I’m a student at AU. </p>

<p>The environmental studies program (=/= environmental science, but you can choose between BA or BS) isn’t too bad, though I have nothing to compare it to. If you pair it with International Studies, you’ll get a solid foundation in global environmental policy and be able to work with professors who are pretty big in the field. </p>

<p>I don’t know what AP or dual-enrollment credits you’ve accumulated, but should you still need to take General Bio and Chem, you’d be in pretty small lectures and lab groups. The bio professors I’ve had so far have been pretty cool; they organize extracurricular field trips and are really enthusiastic. </p>

<p>The draw of DC is of course the internship opportunities. It’s not uncommon here to hear about kids’ gigs with the EPA or Department of Agriculture. There are lots of non-profits around here, too. </p>

<p>We also get plenty of on-campus speakers on environmental topics. There have been UN people, documentarists, and CEOs in the two weeks alone.</p>

<p>More to the point: AU’s academics are nothing to scoff at. Unfortunately, the campus social scene is a bit cliquey (surprise!) and drab. I’d say it feels more like a professional school, what with all the interns and suits. My impression is that students here are too focused on career ambitions and less interested in genuine learning. I guess that’s why I’m transferring.</p>

<p>Hope that helps in some way.</p>

4

<p>Speaking as a huge Cal fan, who loves all the same things about Cal that you love: it’s not worth $120k of debt. </p>

<p>You have two different dreams here. One is a dream to go to Cal. Another is a dream to help solve the world’s environmental problems. I suggest that you let go of the former dream in order to embrace the latter, which is the bigger dream that could very well fill the rest of your life. If you end up choosing to pursue law school, you can take that option without already carrying $120k of debt from undergrad. </p>

<p>Since you’ll be visiting DC next week, that will give you a better sense of American and GW. I’d suggest seeking out some science professors, if possible, and asking them what their schools offer to someone with your specific interests. </p>

<p>The UW with no honors option may be intellectually workable. See if you can appeal the decision, or if you can enter honors in your sophomore year. Or, better yet, find an area of study you find compelling, and then identify professors who are willing to include undergrads in their research programs. </p>

<p>No input about Oxy. </p>

<p>You’ve got lots of great possibilities, even without an affordable Cal option. Save your money for now, and go to Boalt for law school.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the advice!</p>

<p>I think I am coming to terms with the whole Berkeley thing, and I will probably decline them. It’s just too crazy a cost with too much riding on it. </p>

<p>American might be too much of a jump for me. I think I want to be a little comfortable in college, but once I see AU and GWU I will determine if they really are worth the extra money and the change. </p>

<p>I would love more info on Oxy if anybody has any. I don’t think I can go for a real visit, so I would appreciate input!!</p>

<p>Otherwise UW seems like a safe bet, just a bit disappointing. I’ll find happiness no matter where I go, I just want to keep my options open.</p>

6

<p>I am probably committing to UW after I visit DC, but I would like to find out more about Occidental if anybody can give some info. I am most afraid that a small liberal arts school like Oxy will end up like high school 2.0, and I have hated high school so much. I want to meet more people, but I don’t want to struggle through humongous lecture courses. </p>

<p>Also does anyone know what UW does to reduce the overwhelming size of the classes. I don’t want to waste my money sitting in a 500 person lecture, and never meeting or learning anything from the prof. Are there office hours? Are there break out discussions or lab sections?</p>

7

<p>I would opt for Cal but Cal is NOT 120K more valuable then UW. UDub is a GREAT university and if you can afford it all four years then it’s a no brainer. The other schools are not really comparable given the financials.</p>

8

<p>Try the Occidental forum [Occidental</a> College - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/occidental-college/?pp=20&daysprune=-1]Occidental”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/occidental-college/?pp=20&daysprune=-1)</p>

9

<p>UW sounds like a great choice to me. The environmental field is not an overly high-paying one, so it would be prudent to save the money. I’m sure you’d learn great things at UW, and Washington is probably a good state for an environmental career, so you’d probably make good connections. Also important is what you get involved in extra curricularly–you’d probably have great opportunities at UW.</p>

10

<p>Well, I went to DC this weekend and made my college decision more difficult. </p>

<p>I did not really like American University although they gave me some significant loans. Since I like UW better than AU I figured I would get AU off my list. </p>

<p>But I did really love GWU. I felt like I could get the urban school I want with all the opportunities of DC. It seems academically challenging and a much better quality school compared to UW. However the cost is a huge stress even with a 20k scholarship. </p>

<p>I don’t really want to stay in Washington state for the rest of my life as much as I enjoy it. I am really afraid that if I go to UW despite the lower cost, the quality of my education will be inferior with such huge classes and I will be stuck in Seattle for ever. </p>

<p>Occidental and Berkeley still might be options, but I think I will put Berkeley aside and see if I can get any more financial aid from Occidental. </p>

<p>Any suggestions? Is GWU and DC worth the extra cost for all the opportunities? Will I survive UW’s gigantic classes and impersonal style?</p>

11

<p>“Any suggestions? Is GWU and DC worth the extra cost for all the opportunities? Will I survive UW’s gigantic classes and impersonal style?”</p>

<p>I do not think that GWU is worth the extra cost unless we are talking maybe 5K/year extra or 20K TOTAL FOR 4 YEARS. But this is the key statement “I can afford UW for all four years.” Do not underestimate the stress associated with the cost of school. It can put a burden on you when you are worried about making rent. As for UW’s “huge-ness,” the thing about big universities is that you can make them small in a few ways: 1) take smaller classes. You do not always have to take the huge GE classes you can always opt to take smaller classes that cover your requirements. That said if you find yourself in a large class - GO TO OFFICE HOURS. Meeting with your TA and Professors is a GREAT way to make a large class seem “small.” Not enough students take advantage of this and most TAs and Professors are happy to have visitors. Also form study groups with classmates. This is another GREAT way to make friends and make a large class a more personal experience. 2) When you get to your major coursework, most of the time classes are much smaller. You may also opt to take seminar (5-20 students) classes as your major electives or as replacements for major requirements. Many students do not know this is an option, but ask your Major counselor and they usually will provide you with alternatives. 3) live in the dorms. Living in the dorms is a great way to meet new people and make friends and usually dorms are organized into smaller units (your floor or wing) so it gives you that smaller feel and 4) join on campus organization(s) again this is a GREAT way to make a bigger school “Small” you can interact with 5-50 students (depending on size of the org) on a more personal level doing something you have in common (which breaks the ice). </p>

<p>As for staying in Washington your whole life, you do not have to. UDub is an internationally and nationally respected university, it’s not like you won’t be able to find a job because you went to UDub- quite the opposite. Also, study abroad-take advantage of study abroad opportunities. You can live somewhere else for an entire year if you choose. That is as a good a way to make connections as any. There are also many summer/semester in DC programs for students interested in politics. Finally, college does not determine your entire life! If you kick butt at UDUb, you can end up at Harvard or Georgetown or wherever you choose for grad school. </p>

<p>Take the advantage of a great opportunity and own it ;-)</p>

12

<p>I am down to my two choices, UW and GWU. Until a few days ago, I was leaning toward UW, but my parents have given me the opportunity to go to GWU after a second look at our finances. It would be a stretch, but thanks to my scholarship the financial burden won’t be crazy. </p>

<p>I’ve come down to basically a few basic differences between the schools. I have visited both now extensively and I feel like I would be happy at either school. The academics have lots of positives with drawbacks that cancel each other out. The size of both schools is great and the urban settings are spectacular. I feel like both schools will give me a great base for the rest of my future.</p>

<p>The differences:
UW is much more comfortable for me. I know it very well, and I have a lot of friends going there who will provide me with a safety net when things go bad. I know I won’t cling to only these friends and I will meet so many interesting people over the next four years. It’s close by, socioeconomically diverse, and would be a very affordable, reasonable option for me. The research opportunities also seem very strong. And who can’t help but enjoy the cherry blossoms and views of Mt. Rainier?
Nevertheless the huge lecture style class size deters me. I sat through one today, and I felt very disengaged. I also feel that it may be too comfortable being so close to home and that I will not grow up at UW. And I cannot stand the weather here in the Seattle area. </p>

<p>GWU has so many opportunities. I would love to be in an exciting urban metropolis like DC and explore all the learning opportunities. The Smithsonian, memorials, and government buildings inspire me so much. I want to be politically active and I want to open my mind. There would be new people to meet and I would hopefully gain a lot of independence at GWU. The dorms and facilities are luxurious and there is just so much going on in DC. I feel like I will be inspired at GWU.
Still, it is quite the cost for me and my family. I also fear the snobby attitude I have heard about and I fear. Even though I would learn so much, it is just so distant from my home. And the environmental courses seem less desirable. </p>

<p>Help!</p>

13

<p>I think UW is more of a “politically active” campus than GW but of course it depends if you are talking mainstream political engagement or social justice activism. It sounds like you are more excited about GW because its different and you want a change, because you can do everything you described at UW and UW is better for your major. </p>

<p>I still say UW IMO it is the better school at a better cost, study abroad for a year to get away, then do a semester in DC - that would shorten your stay at UW and give your parents some breathing room and maybe they’ll have extra money for your year abroad ;-)</p>

14

<p>A good basic tenet wrt college educations would be never to let yourself get into > $100K debt no matter what the college/university. It’s a fact of life, but let’s face it: rich kids would under this have a lot more options and can be more carefree wrt choosing a c/u.</p>

<p>Add that you’re going into the environmental field, and your income probably won’t be exactly overwhelming your bank account, with your saving the world or not, inc if your research is patent-based.</p>

<p>Add that you’re going to have to go for a PHD to be viable in the field added to your JD.</p>

<p>Cal’s a great school, and sounds like you’d love to be there, but Washington is also a great school, undoutedly great in the environmental field also.</p>

15

<p>“The environmental field is not an overly high-paying one…”</p>

<p>You’re joking, right?</p>

<p>Just go to ANY municipal, state, federal or other public procurements web site and take a lot at how much environmental consultants are paid. The environmental parts of remediation and other civil/capital and ecological evaluation contracts are quite lucrative.</p>

16

<p>So my mom informed me that Berkeley may be paid for through a loan from a relative. I don’t feel entirely comfortable taking all this money just to pay for my undergrad from my relative, but I don’t know what to do. My parents finally say they will support my Berkeley dream. I only have a few days left. I was about to sign and mail everything to UW, but I don’t know what to do now!!!</p>

<p>help.</p>

17

<p>Loans have to be paid back. I love Cal, its not worth the extra cost.</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>I guess I should have qualified my statements a bit better.</p>

<p>The OP, Ottermax – it sounds so clinical to refer to someone as, ‘the OP,’ sounded like he/she would be obtaining a PHD in the field along with a JD. I’m going to guess, ‘he.’</p>

<p>To become viable in the field, one would seemingly have to take a doctorate. Otter also wants to enter the legal field and become involved with policy, obtaining a law degree. This sounds governmental in nature if not nec wrt consultancy, but it could be that he is associated with a firm, law or environmental.</p>

<p>The educational part takess at least four years post-grad, but only if there’s a joint JD/PHD program somewhere that would engage both, without mentioning the course-load. So I’m guessing > four years added to the four of undergrad. </p>

<p>Besides the above viability-building, he has to build his legitimacy in the field. This would probably encompass working for someone else, being associated with, say, a university, or working in a branch of government, or working for a law firm, the latter which would be remuneratively rewarding.</p>

<p>Main point is, it doesn’t sound like his future in the field is as narrow in scope as you or I would seem it to be. Further, I would say that most environmentalists aren’t compensated greatly even if they have their own firms, but are in the field for the ‘saving the world’ aspect.</p>

19

<p>Right. a LOAN is NOT = “paid for”.</p>

<p>I don’t know that much about the Enviro field, but I do know UDub is very high in Oceanography, which is a related field. UDub is a higher caliber school as regards oceanography (Top 5 in the country). Don’t let the size cause you to think the education is of a lesser quality.</p>

<p>I would guess that if you are top 20% in your classes at UDub, you will have access to those Professors that cause UDub to be ranked so highly. That access = research. Research in the sciences is everything.</p>