UBC vs UofT

<p>I'm an international student who is interested in both schools for their BA program. So, in terms of the specific factors below, which is better:</p>

<ul>
<li>tuition fees (especially for Arts and Science)</li>
<li>cost of living (Vancouver vs Toronto)</li>
<li>quality of teaching</li>
<li>social and student life</li>
<li>post-graduation career prospects</li>
<li>internship opportunities</li>
<li>reputation in US and Asia</li>
<li>city life and nightlife</li>
</ul>

<p>There were similar threads here, but I guess it would be better to also help prospective applicants learn about ALL the pros and cons of both schools before making an informed decision.</p>

<p>Please help, thanks!</p>

<p>After 50 odd views, no one is here to give your 2 cents’?</p>

<p>Tuition Fees
Tuition is approximately the same but UBC sets aside a larger amount of money for scholarships than UofT ($35 million vs $2.5 million respectively) so UBC might be significantly cheaper in the long run than UofT. </p>

<p>Cost of Living
Cost of living is approximately the same but there’s a greater abundance/variety in Toronto than there is in Vancouver. </p>

<p>Quality of Teaching
UofT. On some rankings it even trumps Stanford and Yale, especially when it comes to Arts and Humanities. The faculty at UofT is comparable to many of the top universities in the world. UBC isn’t that bad but it’s just not comparable. </p>

<p>Social and Student Life
UBC hands down. Although UofT’s St George Campus isn’t all that bad, it suffers from the fact that the majority of the students are commuters. McGill is probably the best in this aspect. </p>

<p>Post-Graduation Career Prospects
UofT. It is more renown, has a lot more resources, has a larger alumni network and is usually ranked higher overall for Arts and Science. However, with that said, there’s a higher deflation rate at UofT than there is at UBC so if marks are important to you (i.e Professional Schools) then UBC would be a much more safer choice, although it’s not unheard of to earn high marks as well (I have a 4.0 atm). </p>

<p>Internship Opportunities
UofT. Has co-op/work placement/larger alumni network. </p>

<p>Reputation in US and Asia
UofT. </p>

<p>City Life and Nightlife
Toronto>Vancouver. Vancouver doesn’t really feel like a city although it’s more beautiful than Toronto though when it comes to wildlife/scenery.</p>

<p>If you have any more questions, feel free to fire away. :)</p>

<p>Thanks EcceHomo!</p>

<p>But there are still certain things that I can’t figure out:</p>

<p>Social life - do you mean to say the school and community spirit and level of student participation in campus life isn’t as active in UofT as in UBC? Because if I’m not mistaken, many UofT students do live in the dorms there which encourages an active campus life.</p>

<p>Reputation in US and Asia - I heard from other sources that UBC has a larger intake of Asian students than UofT every year and hence, tend to be more well-known in Asia. Is it true? </p>

<p>And I am planning to work in Canada after graduation first before maybe working in the US in the long-term. So, does being from UBC put me at a disadvantage in terms of employment prospects? </p>

<p>Also, I heard that employment prospects in Vancouver tend to be more gloomy as compared to Toronto, as only the film and media industry and forestry sector are pretty much the only thriving industries in Vancouver.</p>

<p>

Similar, UofT doesn’t really have scholarships that I know of though. I think tuition hikes are capped at 10% in ON, not sure if BC has something similar.

Crazy expensive in both, but cheaper areas away from campus are more accessible in Toronto b/c the transit system is better.

Probably comparable, both have very good rep in academia.

Both are kind of commuter schools but there is stuff going on. If you want a residential atmosphere, look at Queen’s or Western.

UBC might be a little better on the west coast, otherwise UofT.</p>

<p>Both are fine for academia or grad school, though grading is supposed to be tough at UofT.

I think Vancouver is overrated and the rain sucks. But a lot of people love it. UofT is more urban, which can be good or bad depending on your preferences.</p>

<p>In terms of economy, IMO Alberta >> Ontario > BC = Quebec out of the major provinces.</p>

<p>Social Life: There are currently 50,000 students going to UofT, the majority of these students do not live on campus which is why the student life is quite dull compared to a school where the majority of students live on campus such as Queen’s or Western. However it isn’t THAT bad depending on which campus you’re staying at. </p>

<p>Reputation: No, UBC is probably easier to get into which is why there’s a discrepancy but UofT has the better reputation. Their faculty is comparable to Harvard or Yale when it comes to the Arts. I cannot say the same for UBC. If you have time to visit Canada, just ask around and they’ll tell you that McGill and UofT are Canada’s best. </p>

<p>Employment: You will receive looks from either schools but UofT is generally the “bigger” name in Canada alongside McGill and Queen’s. </p>

<p>Economy: Ontario and Alberta are the only viable economies in Canada (for places where you actually want to live in.)</p>

<p>^ I don’t agree with your use of the term “viable.” Most of the provinces have perfectly viable economies; they simply are not vibrant economies. Unfortunately, a vibrant economy is exactly what a graduating student with little experience needs to break into the job market. Alberta and Ontario are the provinces with a large enough population and strong enough economy to provide this.</p>

<p>For an Arts student, Ontario and Alberta (to a lesser degree) are the only viable economies. I cannot imagine a province such as Saskatchewan hiring anyone other than engineers, scientists or blue collar workers. As well with the fishing industry on the downturn along with sovereignty/environmental concerns with the Maritimes, there’s relatively little hope in those provinces as well. That leads me to Quebec…which is basically a disaster with their lassiez-faire economics (and politics for that matter). Tsk tsk.</p>

<p>^ Your overall message is right, but the details are wrong.</p>

<p>First, Quebec is not remotely laissez-faire (“let it be,” free market). Standards of economic freedom in Quebec are lower than almost anywhere else in Canada (according to the Fraser Institute, only PEI is lower).</p>

<p>“Viability” refers to feasibility or ability to survive. Quebec, the Prairie Provinces, and mostly BC all have viable economies. What they do not have are economies that are large, diversified, and vibrant. Saskatchewan’s economy is perfectly viable, and corporate/government offices do provide some opportunities for liberal arts graduates, but because of its low population and diversification the quantity and diversity of opportunities is small compared to Ontario or Alberta.</p>

<p>“Let it be”, that was exactly what I was going for. That attitude has what led them to hirings of community college students for their MPs, failing economy etc. If you’ve worked in Quebec, you’ll be astonished by their lack of initiative and the state of apathy amongst your co-workers (and they wonder why their economy is so slow). </p>

<p>Of course they have a"viable" economy as all first world countries do but I’m talking about a specific instance or stream not just general viability. Economical viability in reference to their education. Or in other words, economic viability in this sense would mean: </p>

<p>Can X occupation in X province be expected to pay for X education with a reasonable rate of return as well as can satisfy any X constraints imposed?</p>

<p>I do not think it is possible in a province outside of Alberta or Ontario for the time being.</p>

<p>I won’t comment on which school is ‘best’ because it’s really an impossible question to answer. Both are very good schools. I do want to comment on the the claim that life on U of T’s campus is dull. That’s hogwash. :wink: Thousands of students live on the dorms and many thousands more live within walking distance. There are hundreds of clubs and activities on campus and the student population at the St. George campus is very engaged. It is a vibrant community and anyone who says otherwise hasn’t spent much time there. There will be more activities and more people on campus than you could possible take advantage of as a student. Anyone who is bored, isn’t making an effort.</p>

<p>But, if I’m from UBC (Arts) majoring in say, economics or political science, is it possible to get a stable job in Ontario or Alberta? Or would those who graduated from a university within Ontario and Alberta get priority in job placements?</p>

<p>@alwaysamom</p>

<p>I’ve lived on UTSG and am an executive on many of the large student run organizations there. Trust me, I try. Although the student life there is decent, its nothing compared to McGill or schools with relatively 0 commuter students. As well, it depends on the faculty as a lot of the kids in my department are either socially anxious introverts or have 0 interest in a relationship (platonic) outside of school. Just study study study or help me with my problem sets. </p>

<p>@spasticity</p>

<p>Not graduating from either University will get you an interview, however you should seriously consider UofT or McGill based on the examples that you’ve given. UofT has the best faculty in Canada for Economics, even their lesser campus (UTSC) has a very competitive faculty.</p>

<p>EcceHomo, I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been unable to feel a part of the St George campus. Three of my Ds attended U of T, all for undergrad then stayed for law school, a Master’s, and Med school. They all lived on campus in res, initially, then moved out to apartments with friends. I can’t imagine how any of them could have been more busy with school and related ECs than they were in undergrad and during their grad programs.</p>

<p>I acknowledge that U of T isn’t for everyone. It’s a large urban campus, with all that that entails, both the good and the bad. Going to Queen’s is a very different experience, and might give the illusion of a more involved student body simply due to the lack of other things to do in Kingston. McGill has a lot of students living outside the dorms, too. The friends of my Ds and many nieces and nephews who have attended McGill only stayed in res for first year. The same thing for those we know who were at Queen’s, actually. Queen’s has a lower percentage of its students remain in res after first year than any other Ontario university. </p>

<p>I think you may be right about it depending on what faculty you’re in, to an extent. Two of my Ds had majors in the Humanities and the other was in Sciences. All were in Vic, which they thought made a big difference because the experiences they had there were good ones. I think that Vic has that reputation of having a real community feel, while some other colleges at U of T were a bit different. I hope that maybe the coming year brings you a more satisfied feeling on campus. :)</p>

<p>Oh.</p>

<p>Another query is, I am intending to major in either Economics or Political Science in UBC Arts. But with an A level qualification from Singapore, in order to qualify for the Econs major, must I have already taken H2 or A level Mathematics as a prerequisite? </p>

<p>Or I just apply to Arts directly, and once I’m inside, whether I qualify for Econs major depends on my GPA for the first two years?</p>

<p>I’m asking this because I know that Economics involves a lot of mathematical content and rigour.</p>

<p>I’m not sure about UBC but Economics at UofT requires Calculus, so I’m assuming UBC might would need something similar to that.</p>

<p>I considered both, and went to UBC. One of the main reasons I chose UBC is because of the fact that they guarantee housing for international students, which Toronto does not. </p>

<p>Social life at UBC or U of T is going to be what you make of it. These are large schools with all sorts of crowds, U of T is a downtown campus (assuming you go to the main campus), UBC is located a bit outside of Vancouver, but close enough to anything to enjoy the city. You can’t beat Vancouver for being a city that is cosmopolitan and outdoorsy at the same time. I did feel like UBC was a smaller school which was another factor in my decision to attend. </p>

<p>Career prospects, within Canada usually U of T is better. They are simply closer to everything and vancouver is at a disadvantage. Bay Street is in Toronto which makes it that more companies actively recruit there. UBC also gained fame relatively recently (The last 30 or 40 years) it does not have the extensive Alumni networks U of T has. The school is deeply committed to raising its quality, but it will be a few decades before it can catch up. That being said plenty of UBC Alumni are successful and landing great first jobs, and the schools degree holds up just as well as U of T outside of Canada. If you plan on returning home, UBC has a very strong reputation in Asia.</p>

<p>For admissions to economics or political science at UBC you need to obtain the requisite average for gaining admissions to the program. The past few years a 75 (B+) average is almost guarantees admissions to economics, while a 70 is usually sufficient for polisci. </p>

<p>If you have A level credit you are eligible to apply for the major at the end of you first year. Requirements are Calculus I and II for economics so you will need those courses or the equivalent transfer credits (Math 100/101 or equivalent). If you have any intention of going to do grad school in the subject you will probably want to take 4 or 5 course beyond just Calculus. </p>

<p>Academics. Its hard to compare. In terms of reputation UBC and U of T are pretty much tied in economics for having the best department in Canada. Both have very highly regarded political science programs as well. Ranking of course isn’t as important unless you want to do grad school. U of T is known for having grade deflation, but that doesn’t make UBC any easier. Generally courses are curved so that the average 1st and 2nd year student comes with a B- or C+ in most courses. Generally less than 10% students maintain a A- or better average and usually 5% have an solid A average (85%).</p>

<p>@ ashesatdusk: wow thanks man! That definitely clears things up about UBC and UofT. I gotta admit that I am looking for someone here who can convince me to go to UBC instead of UofT haha. </p>

<p>But, by this phrase “the schools degree holds up just as well as U of T outside of Canada”, are you implying that UBC econs or political sci grads are not disadvantaged in terms of employment prospects in USA and Europe?</p>

<p>p.s. though I am uncertain about my future for now, I might consider going into acting or tourism industry. So being in Vancouver would put me in better stead than in Toronto, right?</p>

<p>As I’m in the midst of applying to UBC, I realise that it requires applicants to input my leadership or non-academic contributions as well.</p>

<p>Will this section greatly affect my chance of admission into UBC Vancouver? Or will they just usually look at grades?</p>

<p>I’ve lived and taught at both: </p>

<p>Tuition Fees
Not enough difference to based your decision upon it when cost of living is factored into the equation. Apply to both and see if you are able to earn a scholarship from one, and compute the difference for you personally. </p>

<p>Cost of Living
Vancouver is currently substantially more expensive for off campus housing and cost of food. </p>

<p>Quality of Teaching
Identical. Too much internal variation to see any average difference. The profs are from the same places, very similar status in their respective fields, they use the same materials, textbooks, etc.; they receive the same educational support internall, classes are basically the same size, teaching is valued about the same (both culturally but also in terms of formal reward structure). There will be more internal variation at one school than differences between schools. </p>

<p>Social and Student Life
Both are largely commuter campuses and students are largely from the local area, though both have a substantial international student population that has grown in recent years. It helps when one attends a smaller program within each, joins clubs, lives on campus. But there will be tremendous variation among he 10s of thousands of students at each to draw a conclusion about the social life or how they compare. I do know that the Faculty of Arts at both are known for lacking a sense of community because of their large size (though it gets better as you get more involved in your major, or join other aspects of campus to build your own smaller community within the larger community). </p>

<p>Post-Graduation Career Prospects
Almost identical. I can think of absolutely no data to suggest otherwise. Both have strict grading curves. U of T may present somewhat lower averages but they also report each class average on their transcripts, enabling employers and grad school to see how students did relative to their classmates (a feature not available to UBC graduates). </p>

<p>Internship Opportunities
Both have large alumni networks. Both have coops and internships, and the availability and use of those is highly dependent upon the the particular school and program you are within. Major Canadian and Asian employers recruit from both; graduates have on par opportunities for graduate school in Canada or the US. </p>

<p>Reputation in US and Asia
I have not lived in Asia so can not speak to this. UBC considers itself the “university of Asia” (officially speaking now, this is from the President). My current student from Bejing just told me, “you know what we call UBC back home? University of a Billion Chinese, ha ha”. </p>

<p>City Life and Nightlife
UBC is not downtown so the surrounding area is more residential whereas U of T is downtown; both have vibrant downtown cores, both look exactly like big cities when you are downtown, Toronto however is much larger and is much more highly regarded for its active nightlife and cultural scene. </p>

<p>U of T requires lower averages for admissions for arts and science. But I have found the students largely comparable when teaching them, and the diversity of ability among students within one class, especially at the outset, is substantial. So admissions standards is not meaningful.</p>

<p>As for the earlier comment about ‘viable economy’… this doesn’t make any sense. BC has held the lower unemployment rate for a very long time, only now coming on par with Ontario this month in fact (it entirely missed the recession, buoyed by Asian trade and the lack of dependence on manufacturing).</p>