My son got accepted for BA in CS in UCB. Is it worth it to take chance as a undeclared student to transfer later in CS?His other options are UCI CS and Purdue CS. How competitive is UCB BA in CS? What are the other options if someone couldn’t get certain (3.3gpa). Doing BA in CS is too much different then doing BS in EECS? Employer care for BA or BS?
Please help me with that.
I graduated in '13, and have many friends in CS and EECS in my class year.
Going to break down your questions:
My son got accepted for BA in CS in UCB. Is it worth it to take chance as a undeclared student to transfer later in CS? What are the other options if someone couldn’t get certain (3.3gpa).
- IT’s’s pretty hard to transfer to either EECS and CS as both are heavily impacted now. Back when I was a freshmen, it was 2.7gpa (B-). A 3.3gpa (B+) in your 1st year technical classes (CS3/61A/B, Math 1A/1B/53/54, Physics 7A/7B, etc.) is above average for your typical UCB student. As undeclared, he would also have to be competing with incoming CS/EECS freshmen who gets higher priority, so it’s pretty hard now. If he doesn’t get in… then… there’s not too many options to continue to pursue CS, and you would’ve spent a lot of time already taking those pre-reqs. He might be able to transfer to a less competitive CS program elsewhere (UCI, UCSD, etc.) to finish his degree.
His other options are UCI CS and Purdue CS. How competitive is UCB BA in CS? Employer care for BA or BS?
- UCB CS much better than UCI CS, simply because of the institution. As a small example, I worked at google for a couple of years, and UCB bachelors are the minimum cutoff. Everyone has a bachelors from Ivy’s or a Masters/PhD from other universities. You simply don’t see UCI or UCD bachelors getting hired, unless they’re the top of their class with impressive experience. I don’t know much about Purdue CS, sorry. Employers don’t care for BS or BA. When it comes to a career in CS, what’s really important will be his summer internships, projects and experiences he partakes in during his summers.
Doing BA in CS is too much different then doing BS in EECS?
- If your son wants to go into EE, then yes, very different lol. But if he’s hoping to go into CS, and hope to be a software engineer of some sort after college, then no, very little difference. EECS is more technical with their non-CS classes (EE, physics, math, etc.), but both majors have the choice to take the same CS classes. I have friends who graduated from both majors and are equally competitive in the same job market for software.
I think it’s ultimately up to him to think about it and decide. It sounds scary to go L&S undeclared and try to get into CS, but I think it’s a worthy experience, and you can transfer to finish the CS degree later. Or you can go risk-free and just go to Purdue or UCI to do the CS degree.
My son also has similar choices to make…UCI for Computer Game Science, UCB College of Letters and Science, UW for Pre-Physical Science (which is the entry to Computer Science) and a few other less prestigious schools with direct entry to Computer Science.
This is the first year that the BA in Computer Science at UCB has not been a direct admit (per correspondence this week with the CS Adviser). The pre-rec for admittance to the major is to achieve a 3.3 in only 3 CS classes. All who meet the requirement at this time are admitted to the major. They actually have no experience with how this will affect students because they just implemented the requirement. While this may not be easy to achieve, it does not seem insurmountable, after all my son got into Berkeley and that really seemed impossible 
!
For me, I think that any motivated student will do well coming out of any reputable college with a CS degree. Demand for this field is very high. I think a UCB degree of any type (CS or otherwise) will open doors nationwide that perhaps a degree elsewhere may not. If your son wishes to live in CA-Bay Area after graduation, you can do no better than going to UCB. I’m sure UCI probably has its devotees down south. Bottom line, many good options and we are very thankful.
@gdavge2003
Appreciated your comments about working at Google. Will pass those along to my son as that is one of his “dream” employers.
@activemom123 and @momof3(1+2)
I’m a third-year CS and Statistics double-major, thought I’d share my opinion on the questions you raised.
Employability:
I can’t speak to UCI, Purdue, or UW, but if your sons go to Berkeley and major in CS, tech companies will be fighting over them - it’s a simple as that. On-campus recruiting happens every day, with major companies like Google holding events several times per semester. In addition, the strength of Cal’s program means that there are constant hackathons, tech talks, and tons of opportunities for research, helping students build an impressive portfolio of projects and experience.
Competitiveness:
Cal CS students are competitive, there’s no doubt about that. But I have never seem that competitiveness work as a negative. In all cases, students are happy to help each other with course material, which can easily be seen from, for instance, the number of students who dedicate their time to peer-to-peer mentoring: http://csmberkeley.github.io. Students view difficult classes with a “we’ll get As by working together” mentality, not an “I’ll get an A sabotaging you” mentality.
CS vs EECS:
In terms of coursework, EECS requires a few more basic science and math courses and one extra EE course. The programs are almost identical at the upper-division level. Since CS requires fewer basic science and math courses, it gives students more free courses and thus the option to do a minor or double-major in another subject.
In terms of employability, I think that EECS may enjoy a very slight bump, but that bump is far, far smaller than the difference between UCI or Purdue and Berkeley CS. As @gdaveg2003 said, employers care much more about internships, projects, and technical ability than they do about which program you’re in.
The 3.3 Requirement:
The 3.3 requirement was actually instituted in Fall 2015, so many students have already put in applications to declare under the new system. Also, for several years before this new system was put in place, entering the major required a 3.0 in 9 CS, Math, and EE classes. So it has not been direct admit for some time.
As a uGSI (undergraduate student instructor - basically a TA) for an intro CS course, I think that worries about receiving a 3.3 are somewhat overblown. We award a grade of B+ or higher to roughly half the class in each of the three courses, and those courses include many students who don’t plan to major in CS. There are several ways for students to improve their ability to make the GPA cutoff, from taking an introductory course such as CS 8 or CS 10 before the courses that count for declaring the major, or by spacing the three courses apart over three semesters to focus on each one individually.
In terms of backup options, I would recommend the Statistics, Mathematics, or Cognitive Science majors. Cog Sci is a common fallback for students who don’t make the GPA cutoff, as it covers a number of CS topics, though personally, I think that students should only major in Cog Sci if they also have an interest in the neuroscience topics that the major spends a lot of time on. Math and Stats are difficult majors, but they signal an interest in technical material. Combined with a minor in CS, they would form a good program for a future software engineer.
For those comparing admission to the CS major for students not directly admitted to the major at various schools, here is a list of CS major admission criteria:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19262574/#Comment_19262574
For employment in computing, there should not be significant difference between EECS and L&S CS. You can check the career survey (“What Can I Do With A Major In … ?” links):
https://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/Survey
However, note that big companies like Google recruit widely, since they have larger needs and more recruiting resources. It is the smaller Silicon Valley companies that may not recruit at as many places, particularly non-local ones.
Note that the L&S CS prerequisite GPA of 3.3 is a recent thing. It was previously 3.0 before fall 2015. It was previously 2.0 from the mid-2000s (after the tech bubble crash) until around 2012 or so. In the mid to late 2000s, there were only about 80-100 L&S CS majors per year. Now there are over 300 per year; the GPA minimum is to keep the major and upper division classes from overflowing. EECS has been allowed to grow from a little less than 300 to a little less than 400 over the years (the relatively small size of upper division EE courses indicates that most EECS majors emphasize CS).
In terms of backup majors for students who do not make the prerequisite 3.3 GPA to get into L&S CS, here are some L&S majors and their prerequisite GPA requirements:
3.2 Statistics
3.2 Operations Research and Management Science
3.0 Economics
2.0 Applied Math
2.0 Pure Math
2.0 Physics
2.0 Cognitive Science
I had the dilemma in 2014 fall when my son chose UCB BA CS over UIUC/UCSD/UCSC/UCD CS. He declared CS in 3 semester with 3.3+ CGPA more than 3.0 requirement. My dilemma was more due to his nature - he needs more fun than studies and under estimates the effort by taking more credits in the semester (than recommended 14) etc.
I agree with @activemom123 and @momof3(1+2).
Here are few things that might help from my observation
- If you have AP Calc AB (3 or above) and AP Calc BC (5), you can get Math 1A and Math 1B exemption. This will reduce remaining lower division courses to 5 instead of 7. If your son feels he can get A and would help improve the chances of 3.3 easily. Math 1A, 1B are higher level compared to AP calc level. Check UCB EECS web site for lower division requirement.
- Spread out these lower division requisites to 3 or 4 semesters if you have 5 courses. If you need to do all 7 courses, do it over 5 semesters. Taking CS 8 or CS 10 prep course would help as well.
- Most students want to be in fraternity (engg or business) and it does take lot of their time. I am not against it. It does help. I would have preferred my son to do it after declaring in 3rd semester. But he did fraternity pledging in 2nd semester itself. It concerned me since pledging took lots of his time (around 60% of time). Pushing pledging to 3rd or later semester after you make sure you can declare CS would be better.
For one with consistent B+ and above in math and science at high school, it is doable.
Though 3.3 requirement does make me little nervous, my opinion is, average student with focus and hard work can make it.
It is all worth it. UCB CS does help in getting good paid internships from freshman year itself.
Good luck with your son.
Thank you Thej77. Very helpful response!!
Thank you!!
I didn’t realize that there is change in CS declaration requirements now. 3.3 is required only for 3 classes now(unlike 7 classes before). For those who are strong and comfortable in math, 7 courses would help.
Given that it is only 3 classes (CS61A, CS61B and CS70). With good effort, it is easy to get A- or above in CS61A, B+ or above in CS61B.
CS70 (Discrete Mathematics and Probability Theory) will require good effort and interest/passion for the subject to get B+.
I feel 3 courses puts less burden and stress to get CS declaration. By putting more effort on these 3 courses though it may affect your GPA in other subjects little bit, you can make it.
3 instead of 7 courses has some advantages:
- Students can declare earlier, and be declared by the time they can take upper division CS courses.
- Students who fall below the GPA cut-off know earlier, so that they can plan for alternate majors earlier.
But also a disadvantage:
- One poor grade in a prerequisite course matters more with 3 instead of 7 courses.
Thanks all for helpful response
.
I second the “thank you” for all the thoughtful and thorough responses. Will have my son read as part of the decision -making process.