UC Berkeley (BS EECS) vs Imperial College London (MEng Computing with AI/ML)

College Search & Selection
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Did not receive any replies on Reddit so I am asking for advice here instead.

I am an international student who has the honor of being admitted to both UC Berkeley (BS EECS) and Imperial College London (MEng in Computing with AI/ML). Both are phenomenal universities and, in my opinion, the best public colleges for CS/Engineering in their respective countries. I will be charged non-resident/overseas tuition so I will pay in full at both unis (my family is fortunate enough to afford them both). Although I am not a US-citizen/permanent resident, I have been living in the state of Minnesota for over 4 years now so I am already well accustomed to the life and culture here.

Note: I will send a deposit to secure my place Berkeley anyways. If I do end up at Imperial, of course, it would not matter anymore.

I am looking forward to a career in research (aiming for industrial instead of academic) so I will definitely attend grad school. My current plan is to pursue all of my higher education from a single country so I will complete my Ph.D./Masters from the UK if I enroll at Imperial or the US if I attend Berkeley. Since both of these universities are amazing academically, I am looking at my options further down the road.

If I graduate from a US uni, I would naturally like to work and settle down in America. However, my only option would be to get an H1B visa and hope for a green card in the future. Unfortunately, I do happen to be from one of the two most impacted countries in the green-card backlog. Because of the way the current immigration system is set up (which I am not against, ironically), it can take me an upwards of two decades (this figure is coming from multiple google searches) before I even get anywhere close to getting my permanent residency. However, one big advantage of staying in the US is that companies here boast higher salaries and cutting edge R&D departments.

On the other hand, the UK has a system where a person can apply for an ILR (which is their version of permanent residency) with just 10 years of lawful and continuous residence. Fortunately, my 4 years at Imperial along with the additional 4-5 years of grad school will automatically contribute to the majority of that ten-year requirement. Combined with the fact that UK citizenship requires a person to stay on an ILR for only a year at most, I can actually become a British citizen before I’m even 30. Furthermore, based on my current research, it seems as if the top-tier Ph.D. programs in the UK (Oxbridge, Imperial, UCL, Edinburgh, etc.) are somewhat easier to get accepted to in comparison to their American counterparts (Stanford, CMU, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, etc.). I do want to mention that this is based on anecdotal evidence; I don’t have an official statistic to prove this.

To sum it up, I believe that there are more opportunities for career growth in the US, but the route to citizenship (and grad school) is simpler in the UK. For some reason, I have a feeling that I will get a lot of hate for making this post but I am genuinely weighing my options right now and I would appreciate any advice from you experts!

Edit: I forgot to mention that my parents are definitely moving to the UK regardless of my decision to attend either Uni. My dad found a higher paying job there.

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“Furthermore, based on my current research, it seems as if the top-tier Ph.D. programs in the UK (Oxbridge, Imperial, UCL, Edinburgh, etc.) are somewhat easier to get accepted to in comparison to their American counterparts (Stanford, CMU, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, etc.)”

That’s because the American research unis have more resources than nearly anywhere else. So they can fully-fund all STEM PhDs, for instance.

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Google “Ben Zhao PhD Europe USA”

Look at research rankings like http://csrankings.org/ and compare where American and UK unis fall.

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It’s easier to get accepted to UK grad programs. But funding is usually awarded separately and can be dramatically harder for international students who aren’t eligible for UK research council funding.

I think you will still count as an international student for the PhD In the UK because being in the country for education doesn’t count towards the residency requirement for tuition purposes. Some people in the UK end up being self pay PhD students which is essentially unheard of in the US. Having said that the UK undergrad degree should be quite a bit cheaper than Berkeley. In addition you can complete the UK PhD much more quickly (3 years Is quite typical if you’ve already done a masters) because there are no teaching obligations (which is why it’s hard to get funding).

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Well, US PhD programs would take students straight out of undergrad while UK PhD programs would take out of a master’s program. 4 years at ICL (London’s not exactly a cheap place to live) would only be a bit cheaper than 4 years at Cal for internationals. Plus, I think the post by Ben Zhao is worth reading. Yes, you could get a PhD sooner in the UK, but to land a good research position would then require a post-doc while he says that’s not so true for American PhDs (unless the economy is terrible when you graduate).

I personally think that, if a PhD is your goal, you should aim for a top American PhD program (at least for CS) regardless of where you go for undergrad. It’d give you more opportunities around the world.

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I agree with @PurpleTitan 100 percent.

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@Twoin18 Although I am not sure about other universities, I’ve heard that Cambridge especially has a ton of funding for Ph.D. (both home and international students). If I do end up going to Imperial, getting into Cambridge for grad school will become my top priority. If it helps, my goal is to work in the R&D department of a FAANG (preferably Google Bain or Google Deepmind).

@PurpleTitan Thank you for responding! While I do agree that American Ph.D. programs have more resources and that my Berkeley undergrad education (and brand recognition) may help me get accepted into a really good one, are they worth the uncertainty of a job on an H1B visa afterward? Based on the current green-card backlog, which is expected to last for well over a decade for citizens from my country, I would have to live at the mercy of an H1B visa lottery. However, my current understanding of the US immigration system may be completely warped and I may be speculating stuff incorrectly.

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Well, the US and UK aren’t the only countries in the world. . . .

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I don’t exactly understand what you meant by your last comment. They aren’t the only two countries in the world but they do have some of the best universities and job opportunities out there.

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Cambridge has quite a lot of research council funding for domestic students that is fairly accessible (although it varies by department it is not usually too hard to get if you have a first, that’s what funded my PhD).

But international students have to compete for scholarship funding and only a minority of admitted grad students win funding. One strong undergrad student in my year ended up at Caltech for his PhD because he was from India and didn’t get funding for a PhD at Cambridge.

Relatively speaking there are a lot of Gates scholarships for example, but you’ll need to be one of the most talented students in the world to win one in what is an open competition across all subjects combined. There are other funding mechanisms that predate Gates (eg Cambridge Commonwealth Scholarships) and some endowed college scholarships but none of them are meaningfully less competitive than the Gates. For example I had a couple of friends who were a Marshall scholar (from the US) and a Rutherford scholar (from New Zealand) respectively.

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Meaning that you should think globally as well.

BTW, for university and other non-profit positions, you wouldn’t have to worry about the H-1B cap (though rules could change): https://www.visapro.com/resources/article/us-visa-options/

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I think you’re limiting yourself too early. Complete your master’s at Imperial then in your 3rd year start thinking about where you want to complete your PhD.
I’m also guessing Imperial is cheaper than Berkeley in terms of international fees (even if London housing is extremely expensive,so is the Bay Area and housing isn’t guaranteed for upper class students at either).

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@MYOS1634
Thank you for responding! So, would you recommend going to the UK and getting my MEng from Imperial? Because if I do, then I will definitely be limited to UK schools for a Ph.D. Spending those 4-5 years at Imperial will contribute towards my 10-year residency requirement that will ultimately help me gain British citizenship.

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Who knows what the US visa policy will be in 5 years time? There was an attempt to phase out per country caps this year that nearly passed. And if you have a highly regarded STEM PhD from a top university you could potentially be eligible for an O-1 visa that gets a green card automatically and is not backlogged like the H-1B. Someone capable of winning a Gates scholarship, which is basically the standard you need for a funded Cambridge PhD as an international student, should be able to impress sufficiently to apply for an O-1 (“individuals with an extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business, or athletics”).

Go to whichever university makes sense for undergrad. Don’t think about a 10 year plan for citizenship. I agree that UK undergrad followed by US PhD may be the best option, and is very likely also the cheapest one and easiest to get funded for the PhD.

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@Twoin18 Thank you so much for responding! You are the first person to give me a clear answer regarding my situation. I was never aware of the O-1 visa and I will definitely look into it. From a financial standpoint, I think I will go to Imperial next year and worry about my Ph.D. later.

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I skipped over the fact that your parents are moving to the UK. That might suffice to get round the “primarily for education” designation of being an international student at least for a PhD and perhaps even for your masters year if they move by August this year. That’s worth looking into, the UK publishes good information on how the circumstances tests are applied. See https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information–Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status

And in the current situation with the possibility of Coronavirus causing universities to send students home for part of the next academic year, being in the same country as your parents is another benefit.