OP, many Princeton students choose to join an “eating club.” Some of these are open to anyone while others are by admit only.
Those who wish to join one of the “admit only” clubs take part in what is known as “bicker.” I’m not sure of everything that goes into it but I think it at least includes some sort of Q&A session with club leaders. They “interview” you, after which you are either offered a spot or not.
Anyway, a goodly number of Princeton students join an eating club. They typically take their meals there, spend time studying there, play games, socialize, etc.
Eating clubs also throw parties, some of which are open to all students. The eating club could be said to be the epitome, the centerpiece, of Princeton’s social scene. (Kind of like the residential colleges at Yale or the final clubs at Harvard)
Those who choose to avoid eating club membership may remain with the regular housing.
Princeton eating clubs do have some similarities to fraternities and sororities, but also have some differences (like being coed and non-residential). Princeton discourages students (and prohibits frosh) from joining actual fraternities and sororities which exist as unrecognized off-campus organizations. Some background: https://www.princeton.edu/reports/2011/campuslife/obs-rec/fraternities-sororities/ .
@ucbalumnus you’ve been giving really good advice lately, I really appreciate it
You seem very unbiased and I think you’re opinion would be very valuable. I was wondering, with all atmospheric preferences aside, which school would you personally pick?
One thing I thought about is what if I transferred from Princeton to Berkeley after two years. Like if I didn’t like Princeton after 2 years and I applied to Berkeley engineering as a transfer. Would I be admitted really easy (assuming I have a decent gpa) because I go to Princeton?
Take the Berkeley offer. When it comes to engineering, CS and technology (I’m talking about prestige, respect amongst the people in the field, employment opportunities, respect amongst the academicians, research opportunities, quality of research being conducted, and so on), Berkeley is a solid top 3 in the world. You should not undermine that.
Gap year? Just kidding of course. Go to Princeton. If you can handle engineering you can handle 4 winters. NJ winters are considered mild relative to some areas. Constant sun and fun are not very conducive to academics. That is why most good schools have miserable weather.
You’re not comparing Berkeley EECS with Princeton BSE CS. You’re comparing Berkeley ME to Princeton CS. The EECS threshold is VERY high. If you have to work day and night to get into it, with no guarantee you will, the social environment will be wasted on you as well as the opportunities, and yes why in the world would an EECS professor let you do research for him when you’re not even in that track? Registering for EECS classes for example is not going to be easy due to the cuts and due to your not being in EECS.
Note that you simply can’t transfer into Princeton. And transferring to UC’s will put you in line behind CC transfers, but at least from a top 4-year university you hav a shot. Into EECS though, it becomes really complicated.
I think you are getting a lot of good advice and have 2 great options to pick from. I’m just going to chime in about getting to know professors at Berkeley. Maybe not always true, but just make a habit of going to the professor’s office hours as much as possible for your huge lecture classes. Believe it or not, not a lot of kids go to them (generally speaking)… they are more likely to get help from the GSIs (TAs) because they are more approachable. But if you show up for office hours… even if you pretty much get the material and just have a minor question or two, they will remember you. Also if you are in a class where the prof is mandated to grade on the curve and your grade is on the border, they are likely to bump you up rather than down if they know you’ve been making that effort.
Only CoE undeclared students have free choice of major within the CoE. Those entering as declared majors in the CoE have to apply to change major within the CoE, generally requiring a much higher GPA than 2.0 be allowed to do so (due to the popularity of EECS, it can be very difficult to change into EECS).
It used to be that switching to L&S (which requires a 2.5 GPA) and declaring the L&S CS major was a much easier way to get into a major to study CS. But the rapid rise in popularity meant that the GPA minimum for L&S undeclared students to enter the L&S CS major was raised from 2.0 to 3.0 a few years ago, and was more recently raised to 3.3 – probably still easier than getting into EECS, but still a significant risk of not being able to get in.
Princeton and UCB generate about the same number of research related awards, yet Princeton’s CS department is less than half the size of UCB. This would suggest (but not prove) that there is more student-professor interaction for research at Princeton than UCB.
UCB tends to be known for the applied or practical nature of their research which is more important to industry than to academia.
NSF Graduate Fellowships (based on research - be careful with size because some include IT, but Princeton and UCB do not)
From my perspective UCB and Princeton CS are as different as their cultures.
I associate Princeton with Alan Turing and John von Neumann and a strength in algorithms and I associate UCB with a strength in Architecture and AI and a number of innovations that have resulted in major advances in the computer industry.
Do you prefer a more “mathy” theoretical approach to CS, or a more “applied” theory approach?
Do you like systems level software or application level software?
How much do you want to get involved with the hardware aspect of computers?
Thank you guys all for the advice! I read each and every response very carefully and really appreciate the advice. @Mastadon I prefer a more hands-on and applied learning rather than theoretical (I know Princeton is more focused on theoretical but it’s not a big deal). I do also like the hardware aspect of computers (I want to code and be able to engineer). If I go to Princeton I think I can get an Electrical Engineering certificate (Princeton doesn’t offer minors but certificates are kinda like minors) to supplement my CS.
I want to post my final updated Pro/Con list here. I will be making my final decision tonight. I am still strongly leaning towards Princeton, but I will appreciate more opinions (I would really appreciate unbiased opinions)
Berkeley:
Pros:
Closer and nicer weather
Near silicon valley, internships should be easy to get?
High ranks in engineering
Regents scholarship
More social and lively
Lots of AP Credit (Almost received max)
Less liberal arts?
Cons:
Large class sizes and large population (less opportunities for research and internships)
Was admitted as MechE so I have to switch into EECS (Must maintain a 3.4+ gpa in EECS courses is what I’ve been told at Cal Day). Needing to switch would degrade my first year by adding extra stress and less opportunities in EECS department since I’m technically not EECS yet.
Experiencing budget cuts
Tough to get high GPA (lots of competition)
Expensive to live in silicon valley/bay area (if I work there after)
Princeton:
Pros:
#1 Undergraduate teaching (5k undergrads and 2k grads as opposed to Berkeley’s 27k undergrads and 10k grads)
Ivy Prestige and connections (alumni network)
Not bad for engineering (best out of the ivy leagues)
Admitted as B.S.E. Computer Science and can easily change major to anything I want
Small class sizes (more contact with professors), Princeton’s entire CS department is only about 200 per graduating class and 800 in total while Berkeley is about 700 per class and 2800 in total (counting both CS and EECS majors).
Highest endowment/student in the country
CS department is growing (I heard it’s the most popular major at princeton right now)
Can get good letter of recommendations for grad school
Cons:
Weather is not as nice as Cal, also I live 2 hrs from Berkeley so Princeton is much less convenient to travel to.
I liked Berkeley’s atmosphere and campus better, however Princeton wasn’t bad (a justifiable sacrifice since I would get more help and professor time at Princeton)
Can’t come home as often (expensive plane tickets)
Engineering is not as good as Berkeley
I don’t really like liberal arts
AP credits don’t apply as much
Less desirable testing schedule (not a major concern but finals are after winter break however we get 9 days of “reading period” where we have no classes and we just study for finals.
I am not a huge fan of the Princeton culture, and I like UCB’s approach better given your interests, but…
At the undergrad level, I am not a fan of “full immersion” in a pure technical discipline. Exposure to some liberal arts courses and non-programmers/engineers will pay dividends especially in the latter part of your career. I also think it is important to have some flexibility to explore without running into blockades at departmental boundaries.
So, I would recommend that you go to Princeton undergrad, develop a broad technical base, get some exposure to the liberal arts, and decide which technical area you want to specialize in. Then I would recommend that you go to UCB for your masters and immerse yourself in that specialty.
The main sticking point for me is that you DIDN’T get the major you want at UCB whereas you DID at Princeton. I’d withstand some snow if it meant studying what I want to study and get to the career I want. What’s the sun worth if you can’t study what you’d like and are stuck in a career or major you haven’t chosen? Heck, who knows, you may end up liking the snow.
From what i know, Regent Scholars have always had a quite successful rate in shifting out and transferring to a program of their choice. Regent Scholars have an assigned mentor who constantly provide advice, guidance, and information about how the students can maximize the university’s more than ample resources. So, basically, you get the same treatment and perks you’re expecting to get from attending a top private school.
OP, do you know the benefits of being a Regent Scholar at Berkeley? I guess you should try to investigate about it more, because it seems the issues and worries you have about attending Berkeley do not impact the Regent Scholars, in general.
Here are some of the benefits and advantages you’ll get for being a regent scholar:
professor mentorship (from day one)
priority enrollment
Guaranteed student housing (throughout undergrad years)
Recommendation from profs (which you’d need when applying for grad school or seeking employment)
Research participation priority
research grant for Regent scholars
Study abroad priority
There will be a career event exclusively for regent scholars
And you will be part of Berkeley’s Regent alumni which includes many very successful and highly influential people.
@Redtor I know the objective perks like housing and priority enrollment but those would be offered at Princeton automatically. I was really trying to search for advantages for internship/research opportunities and stuff like that other than money and priority enrollment because that’s one of the main reasons I’m choosing princeton–the connections and opportunities. I couldn’t find anything on google about that so I asked on the facebook regents group page. From the responses I got it didn’t seem like regent scholars have much of a “leg-up” when it comes to research/internship opportunities. There are like 2 exclusive fairs out of the whole year I think. And the people that responded kinda dodged my question so it seemed like there wasn’t much the scholarship offered other than money, housing, etc.
Also do regents really get priority for research opportunities? I didn’t read anything about that and nobody in the facebook group said that was true when I asked that question.
