<p>I’d wager at least half to as much as 75% of the Emory endowment is owned by the Medical School.</p>
<p>UCB has at least two major endowments–its own and its piece of the UC System Endowment.</p>
<p>alam1, using the Berkeley facts you posted, let’s compare apples to apples.</p>
<p>Berkeley gets 28% of its annual funding from the State of California. Private Emory receives no such funding from the state of Georgia. In 2008/9 Berkeley’s revenue was $1.809 billion. Therefore 28% of $1.8 billion is about $500 million from the state per year. </p>
<p>IF Berkeley were private, in order to make up the $500 million/yr lost revenue from the state, Berkeley would need an endowment of about $7.2 billion generating returns of 7% per year.</p>
<p>Add this to the $2.3 billion current endowment, a theoretical Berkeley private endowment would be $9.5 billion…pretty good for a university with no medical school.</p>
<p>alam1, </p>
<p>Emory has a medical school, Berkeley does not. My aunt who’s an Emory alumna donates to Emory, but the money that she donates goes to the medical school. Therefore, to use endowment fund as resources for undergraduates is a misnomer, because I believe that the chunk of Emory’s endowment fund is owned by deferent departments. I will not deny that Berkeley’s endowment fund is smaller than Emory’s. However, Berkeley’s undergraduate funding does not rely entirely or heavily on endowment fund’s earnings, but by State funding. And if you would dig up the annual operational budget for both schools, you will discover that Berkeley spends a lot more on per student than Emory does. </p>
<p>Your claim that the computer science at Berkeley is over-populated is also false. In fact, there are less than 100 CS students at Berkeley in every year level, and Berkeley has much better facilities than Emory has for IT and computer science programs. In fact, the fastest computer network in the world is in Berkeley. It also has the fastest average broadband in the world, faster than what they have in Japan. </p>
<p>[Berkeley</a> Lab to Develop World?s Fastest Computer Network](<a href=“http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news-HPC-Berkeley-Lab-to-Develop-Worlds-Fastest-Computer-Network-090309.aspx]Berkeley”>http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news-HPC-Berkeley-Lab-to-Develop-Worlds-Fastest-Computer-Network-090309.aspx)
[Berkeley</a>, California Has The World’s Fastest Average Broadband Speeds](<a href=“http://www.switched.com/2010/04/21/berkeley-california-has-the-worlds-fastest-average-broadband/]Berkeley”>http://www.switched.com/2010/04/21/berkeley-california-has-the-worlds-fastest-average-broadband/)</p>
<p>I’m not going to deny the fact that Emory is a good school. But obviously, Berkeley is better and has far better branding in the US and more so outside of the US. And for CS, Berkeley is significantly better than Emory. Again, it’s not even close. The people on this thread who are rooting for Emory are not computer science graduates themselves that’s why they have very little knowledge of the things that they are talking about. </p>
<p>And, lastly, both the top scholars as well as the top employers in the IT industry - anywhere in the world - are very much aware that Berkeley is a top school for computer science and Emory is not. In fact, the average salary of the computer science graduates of Berkeley is significantly higher than that of Emory’s. Berkeley computer science students are smarter than of Emory’s. And Berkeley’s computer science graduates are, in fact, one of the highest computer science graduates in the world. Forgive me for saying this, but you are fooling yourself if you will choose Emory over Berkeley for computer science.</p>
<p>Average Salary for Computer Science Graduates:</p>
<p>75,847 – Berkeley Computer Science <a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/CompSci.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/CompSci.stm</a>
75,833 – Berkeley – EECS <a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm</a></p>
<p>That’s far higher than what a CS grad from Emory receives and I don’t see that changed over the next decade or so from now.</p>
<p>
Really? no wonder why Harvey Mudd has highlighted in on their school website.
[Harvey</a> Mudd College](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/]Harvey”>http://www.hmc.edu/)
[HMC</a> Grads are Highest Earning in Nation](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/specialinterestfeatures/roadtosuccess/hmc-grads-highest-earning.html]HMC”>http://www.hmc.edu/specialinterestfeatures/roadtosuccess/hmc-grads-highest-earning.html)
Princeton - [pressofAtlanticCity.com:</a> Latest News - Breaking News plus Local, Business, Sports, Entertainment & Video News for Southern New Jersey](<a href=“http://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/article_69ccf4a6-9d70-5b68-a8ad-49be4d81b103.html]pressofAtlanticCity.com:”>Pricey college degrees worth cost, data show)
New York Times - [HMC</a> Grads are Highest Earning in Nation](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/specialinterestfeatures/roadtosuccess/hmc-grads-highest-earning.html]HMC”>http://www.hmc.edu/specialinterestfeatures/roadtosuccess/hmc-grads-highest-earning.html)</p>
<p>RML, why are you arguing? Alam1 already said Berkeley was better for CS:
</p>
<p>I disagree with you when you categorically claim “Berkeley is better”. Like all universities Berkeley has strengths and weaknesses. So does Emory. The schools will likely appeal to different, albeit both smart, students. </p>
<p>Regarding the Payscale data, I don’t put much faith into it due to the self-reporting nature. And of course when a college comes out on top of a survey it’s going to toot its horn…and put its own spin on the data.</p>
<p>Hi UCBChemEGrad. I would just like to make it clear that my source for Berkeley came from Berkeley website. Again, Berkeley CS grads are amongst the highest paid in the whole USA, probably just behind Stanford’s and MIT’s. I challenge anyone from Emory to beat that figure. </p>
<p>When I said Berkeley is superior to Emory, I meant that, in general, Berkeley has the superior school prestige, better career prospects, better brand name in banking and finance, and in the engineering and IT world. Emory is just better probably only in the State of Georgia.</p>
<p>My data on endowments and on IS/OOS/int’l students came from NACUBO and USNWR respectively. I suspect that the endowment number that I presented is for the entire UC system and not just UCB’s portion, so yes, this is likely well overstated above.</p>
<p>RML,
There you go again….</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>this is your opinion. And, to many of us outside of the “UC Berkeley or Die” fraternity/sorority, your opinion is total poppycock as it relates to the undergraduate offering of these respective colleges. </p>
<p>For the metrics that most determine the undergraduate environment (strength of students, size of classroom, quality of classroom instruction, spending on undergrad-related services), when measured as one institution vs the other, Emory would be the winner in each category. </p>
<p>As for your later comment,</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>this again is your opinion. UC Berkeley’s reputation and prestige is for its graduate school strength. When will you ever understand that the vast majority of Americans don’t know UC Berkeley as an undergraduate option and couldn’t give two figs about the school? For undergraduate (and especially for undergraduate in subjects outside of engineering), it has close to zero prestige. There are literally dozens of places that are every bit of good, the large majority of which are far better known outside of the West. </p>
<p>As for career prospects, you’re just flat out wrong. UC Berkeley graduates over 6000 students per year vs about 1500 per year at Emory. Do you really think the job placement record for UCB’s 6000+ is superior to Emory’s 1500+? In pockets (like CS) perhaps, but broadly speaking, it’s not. </p>
<p>As for your ongoing Haas worship, it’s a nice place, but hardly unique. There are plenty of fine undergraduate business schools (including Emory’s Goizueta) and plenty of other colleges without b-schools that regularly turn out higher quality grads who do very well in banking and finance. Employers outside of California aren’t exactly panting to get Haas grads. And frankly, why should Haas grads care? The vast majority are going to stay in California anyway.</p>
<p>Finally, on engineering and IT, this is the one area where I would give clear advantage to UC Berkeley. Proximity to Silicon Valley is worth a lot and one should not discount this incumbent placement advantage. </p>
<p>Please put down the pompoms and go back to safer arguments such as UC Berkeley is very prestigious in Asia. That one we’ll let you have.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I will cite an opinion poll that would tell you how wrong you are.</p>
<p>High School Counselor Rankings of National Universities [Best</a> Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-counselor-rank]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-counselor-rank)</p>
<p>We asked guidance counselors from America’s Best High Schools in 2008 to tell us which national universities they think offer the best education to their students. They rated the universities on a scale of 1 to 5 (with 5 being the top score) or marked “don’t know” if they were unfamiliar with that particular college.</p>
<p>University of California–Berkeley
Rank: 9<br>
Score: 4.7 </p>
<p>Emory University
Rank: 25<br>
Score: 4.4 </p>
<p>Now, whose opinion do you think is a total poppycock? Your opinion, or of those several thousands of high school counselors all over America that clearly contradicts with yours? Lol</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Average GPA of Freshmen students
3.93 - Berkeley
3.84 - Emory</p>
<p>Acceptance Rate
22.3% - Berkeley
28% - Emory</p>
<p>Percentage of students in the top 10 of their HS class
99% - Berkeley
87% - Emory</p>
<p>SAT Scores Math
650-770 Berkeley
660-750 Emory</p>
<p>SAT Scores Writing
640-750 Berkeley
650–740 Emory</p>
<p>Berkeley clearly wins!</p>
<p>
how would you measure that? </p>
<p>
Berkeley has bigger budget for operation than Emory that despite that Emory has a medical school and Berkeley has not.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Berkeley has better, new classrooms; better, newer labs; better and bigger IT labs; bigger libs with way bigger book collections. Berkeley has better, bigger research labs, and has way more course offerings than Emory.</p>
<p>
lol</p>
<p>If you’re saying that people outside of California have heard of Berkeley undergrad engineering, then they have heard of Berkeley period. And, in case you’re not aware of it, Berkeley’s number of OOS applicants equal to those of Chicago, Notre Dame, Rice and significantly count more than Amherst, Williams or Caltech. </p>
<p>
Yes; I do think the job placement record for Berkeley is superior to Emory’s. In fact, the record has shown that to be true and you don’t have any record or data or proof to dispute the data I have presented or disprove me. </p>
<p>
No; it’s not just perhaps. It’s conclusive. For CS, Berkeley offers better career prospects than Emory. In fact, I would even go far and say, it’s better than some of the Ivies. You don’t have to take my word for it. Just check out the data yourself. </p>
<p>
I didn’t say Haas is unique. I just said Haas is superior to Goizueta. If you want to disprovethatt, go ahead. I’m ready to be challenged by you on that on too. Just make sure you can support your counter argument this time.</p>
<p>
Outside of NY and perhaps, Massachusetts, Illinois and Texas, career options are somewhat limited. In fact, many HYPSM grads are working in California. I cannot imagine why a Berkeley grad would be excited and thrilled to work in Georgia. lol</p>
<p>
Yes, because many of the most rewarding jobs (especially for CS) are in California. Again, that’s why many HYPSM grads are now in California and not in Georgia or Arkansas or Louisiana. </p>
<p>
Then why do you keep contradicting me when you just repeated what I said to the OP? lol</p>
<p>
Then challenge me when I’ll say that Berkeley is significantly more prestigious than Emory in Europe.</p>
<p>RML,
Let’s take your data in pieces. Btw, my information comes from the most recently available (2009-10) Common Data Sets for UC Berkeley and Emory. This is an apples-for-apples comparison.</p>
<p><a href=“http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2009-10.pdf[/url]”>http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2009-10.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.emory.edu/PROVOST/IPR/documents/factbookprofile/CDS2009_2010_UPDATED042110.pdf[/url]”>http://www.emory.edu/PROVOST/IPR/documents/factbookprofile/CDS2009_2010_UPDATED042110.pdf</a></p>
<p>SAT Scores Combined (CR/Math)
1230-1470 Berkeley
1300-1480 Emory</p>
<p>ACT Scores
27-32 Berkeley
29-33 Emory</p>
<p>Conclusion: Emory’s numbers are stronger.</p>
<p>ACT-SAT Concordance Assessment (SAT scores using ACT data points)</p>
<p>SAT-ACT Concordance Table </p>
<pre><code>Low - High = Single Point = ACT Score
1600 - 1600 = 1600 = 36
1540 - 1590 = 1560 = 35
1490 - 1530 = 1510 = 34
1440 - 1480 = 1460 = 33
1400 - 1430 = 1420 = 32
1360 - 1390 = 1380 = 31
1330 - 1350 = 1340 = 30
1290 - 1320 = 1300 = 29
1250 - 1280 = 1260 = 28
1210 - 1240 = 1220 = 27
1170 - 1200 = 1190 = 26
1130 - 1160 = 1150 = 25
1090 - 1120 = 1110 = 24
1050 - 1080 = 1070 = 23
1020 - 1040 = 1030 = 22
980 - 1010 = 990 = 21
940 - 970 = 950 = 20
</code></pre>
<p>UC Berkeley
Reported ACT of 27-32 translates to 1220-1420 (reported SAT is 1230-1470)
(note how Berkeley’s ACT 75th percentile is out of whack with the supposedly non-superscored SAT)</p>
<p>Emory
Reported ACT of 29-33 translates to 1300-1460 Emory (reported SAT is 1300-1480)
(reported ACT and SAT scores in accordance with each other)</p>
<p>Conclusion: UC Berkeley’s SAT data is superscored.</p>
<p>More standardized test score comparisons:</p>
<p>% of students scoring 700+ on SAT CR</p>
<p>33% Berkeley
44% Emory</p>
<p>% of students scoring under 600 on SAT CR</p>
<p>26% Berkeley
11% Emory</p>
<p>% of students scoring 700+ on SAT Math</p>
<p>51% Berkeley
58% Emory</p>
<p>% of students scoring under 600 on SAT Math</p>
<p>16% Berkeley
6% Emory</p>
<p>Conclusion: Emory numbers are higher, both absolutely and more consistently. There is a sizable subset of students at UC Berkeley that scored below 600 on the SAT CR and/or the SAT Math.</p>
<p>Top 10% students</p>
<p>99% - Berkeley
87% - Emory</p>
<p>% of students reporting rank</p>
<p>not provided by Berkeley
39% Emory</p>
<p>Conclusion: Top 10% comparisons are known to be extremely poor indicators of student body strength. By this metric, 6 of the UCs would rank in the nation’s Top 10 colleges. It should also be noted that UC Berkeley does not report how many students provide a rank. The UC Berkeley number is, at best, an estimation. A less charitable person might call it a lie.</p>
<p>Yes, most of them will be non-Asian minority students.</p>
<p>Berkeley does not superscore SATs. </p>
<p>Show me proof that Berkeley does. It’s not fair to just speculate especially for someone who’s a known anti-Berkeley poster.</p>
<p>And, the latest data for Berkeley are out. Please refer to the latest data.</p>
<p><a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp[/url]”>http://students.berkeley.edu/admissions/freshmen.asp</a></p>
<p>Average GPA of Freshmen students
3.93 - Berkeley
3.84 – Emory</p>
<p>Are you aware that, according to data from USNWR, students at many lower-ranked colleges (including some outside of the USNWR Top 50) had GPAs equal to or higher than either of Berkeley and Emory? Does that mean that their students are stronger???</p>
<p>Conclusion: GPA is important (and especially in context with the curriculum that one has taken), but college comparisons on this metric don’t take into account the HUGE differences in school district quality, to say nothing of differences in grading patterns and curriculum choices. Using GPAs to compare is not just ineffective. It’s stupid. Americans understand this. Apparently you don’t.</p>
<p>One number that you left out was Transfers. Are you aware that over 50% of UC Berkeley’s enrollment transfers in? There is no reported data on this subset of students. </p>
<h1>of transfers, % relative to entering freshman class</h1>
<p>2213, 50.8% Berkeley
124, 7.4% Emory</p>
<p>Conclusion: Do you believe that inclusion of transfers would improve the statistical profile for Berkeley? Not a chance……Reported data overstates the strength of the student body at UC Berkeley.</p>
<p>^ That’s why I have been lobbying on this message board since day one that when calculating for school selectivity, SATs alone should not be the basis. SATs together with HS GPA and % of acceptance rate would be a more reliable tool.</p>
<p>Just accept it, hawkette. Berkeley is superior to Emory as a whole and for computer science. It’s odd when you say otherwise. </p>
<p>OP, Berkeley is the clear choice this time. It’s not even close. You’d have better career opportunities coming out of Berkeley CS and Emory CS. The experts of this field know that.</p>
<p>No matter how you slice it there still are many more smart students at UCB than Enory–literally thousands.
The UCB faculty is far superior to Emory
UCB is a FAR more interesting place than Emory which remains dominated by upper-middleclass strivers.</p>
<p>
provide the average GPA admits for both schools.</p>