“A top private for a few more dollars offers a much better value prop, IMO. Better housing, better advising, smaller classes, more faculty interaction, less bureaucracy (Berkeley Student Affairs/Housing ain’t got nothing on the DMV)…”
But if OP was admitted for CS we wouldn’t even be having this discussion, there would be no contest. So of course there are circumstances where a public can be better. Just as I would pick Oxbridge over Duke any day of the week. OP needs to decide which school fits his/her requirements and personality. There’s no automatic choice here just because one is private.
Berkeley is not going out of business, but it is cutting back on its services/offerings. It’s not about dorms or niceties, it’s about research facilities, professors vs TAs, clubs, class sizes, advising, career counseling…etc.
I haven’t visited Duke, but I know at my kid’s school Cornell, which is a peer to Berkeley, has more than enough fund to build many new facilities on campus, clubs are well funded, and students are given money to do public service internships.
If we were CA residents, I would give Berkeley serious consideration, but not if I am paying OOS tuition.
North Carolina may have more interesting electoral politics to study up close during the next four years, though.
Gerrymandering case in the Supreme Court.
Somewhat of a swing state in presidential elections.
NC-9 and NC-3 special elections (NC-9 due to election fraud / voter suppression last November).
Partisan fights about election law changes regarding voter ID, early voting, same day registration, etc..
In terms of the schools themselves, you can check their political science and other offerings on their web sites to see if either is stronger in whatever your interests within political science and other subjects. UCB should be expected to be a more “economy class” experience than a rich private school, though.
In terms of the undergraduates, Duke will have the usual SES distribution of a highly selective private – about 47% of the undergraduates come from top 3% or so income families (no FA), but only about 12% come from families in lower half income (Pell grant). UCB has about 43% getting no FA (many at the lower in-state cost, so probably the top 10% income families, though there are some wealthy out-of-state and international students paying out-of-state list price) and 28% from the lower half (but only 19% of frosh; the substantial junior transfer cohort tends to come from significantly lower income backgrounds). The largest racial/ethnic group makes up 44% at Duke, 35% at UCB. The different student demographics may be associated with the students’ views on political issues, so if you are interested in observing and studying the political views and activity of other students, that may be a consideration.
Exactly. Duke is considerably smaller and wealthier and dedicates more resources per undergraduate than the UCs do. Duke has produced more Rhodes scholars in the last 5 years than Berkeley has in the last 30 not because its undergraduate student body and/or academics are better but because its fellowship office is much better, for example. As an example of money making a subtle difference, Berkeley closes its main library at night and doesn’t open again until 9 AM (1 PM on Sundays), whereas Duke can afford to keep its library open 24 hours a day.
As someone who’s attended both Duke and a UC, I really can’t imagine that anyone wouldn’t have a strong preference for one or the other. The negligible differences in academic rankings are absolutely dwarfed by the differences between the schools in size, setting, campus atmosphere, class sizes, and so on.
I can address this, as I am both. I was also a young gay kid coming from a poor family, the first in my family to go to college.
I rarely felt unwelcome at Duke. Many/most events on campus (music concerts, theater shows, athletic events, etc.) are free. Durham offers pretty cheap entertainment, and Duke offers heavily discounted (or free) tickets to many events in the area. I had no idea how wealthy some of my fellow students were until I heard their spring break plans my freshman year. The university leans quite liberal these days; conservatives are present and vocal, but they have become a distinct minority over the last couple of decades.
@ucbalumnus . . . per @oldfort 's post #23, what is the climate towards building at Cal? Is it pretty much suspended or are there perpetual projects in progress?
Will be curious to hear how your visit goes. I keep reading here that Duke’s student body is fairly liberal… then a grad from my kids’ high school came to D19’s class to talk about his experiences there. His first roommate had put up a Confederate flag. D crossed it off her list.
You’ve never walked around Durham have you? Or Berkeley for that matter. Way more dangerous than Berkeley. That also goes for “peer” private schools U of Chicago, USC, John Hopkins, etc.
It will be interesting to read of OP’s impressions after visiting Duke University this weekend.
One of Duke’s most popular majors is Public Policy.
To me, it is disturbing that UC-Berkeley’s libraries close at night & do not open until 9am (1pm on Sundays) according to the information shared in post #25 above.
OP: You have two great, very exciting options, but for your situation I think that the better value is Duke University. Berkeley should be a target for graduate school, however.
I simply cannot accept that a major US national research university closes its libraries. Berkeley has over 30,000 undergraduates & many thousands of graduate & professional students. This is not right. Libraries should be a priority.
OP: Do not worry about liberal versus conservative as it is healthier & more enriching intellectually & emotionally to have to view & deal with varying perspectives & beliefs.
@privatebanker I walked around G Town about 2 years ago and outside the buildings there were lots of rodent traps, they looked like rat traps to me, I saw mouse traps recently at a food bank and the hole size was <half the diameter of what I saw at G town. So those were really big mice if they weren’t rats.
@PurpleDragonn I’m very familiar with both schools. The “people” of Durham are very liberal (similar to chapel hill), there’s actually lots of left leaning political activism in the area. However, the administration of Duke not so much. And though most of the students (like most elite colleges) lean left, there’s a decent contingent of kids (particularly from the northeast that come from private schools that lean right). Apparently, frat life is bigger at Duke. Even though I love Cal, if the extra money is not an issue most would suggest duke over cal for a poli sci major.
While factually correct, not sure you are not missing the nuance. What the Admin was objecting to was the lyrics of a song that included the ‘n-word’ and ‘f-word’ that were playing thru the on-campus cafe. Perhaps some customers were offended? But more importantly, this is a place of employment and playing misogynistic music can be construed to support a hostile workplace. It is clearly inappropriate for a working environment and public space that serves adults and children.
And finally, the Duke Admin did not “go out of his way” to get the employees fired. He just complained to the managers of the contract cafe, which was contracted to be on campus. The contractor fired the employees. (yeah, that appears harsh, when a stern warning might have made more sense, but we don’t know if the ee’s had any other issues and were already on probation so-to-speak; regardless, blame the the owners of the business.)
IMO, the Duke Admin acted appropriately and responsibly, since he oversaw housing & dining, so should know that such background music is not only inappropriate, but potentially illegal.
@bluebayou the person who was playing the song list was an afican american female; she tried to save the white male from being fired since he had nothing to do with the playlist, but Duke didn’t care. This did not result in good PR for Duke. The woman was immediately apologetic and offered the VP his vegan muffin for free. The story went national and not in a good way for duke.
Gender or color doesn’t matter to federal law. The cafe is a place of employment open to the public. Playing a song that says… ‘f* her real good’ and uses the ‘n word’ is about as wrong as you can get in a workplace which includes women workers and customers. Moreover, it’s potentially illegal per federal law. Can’t understand how anyone could/would defend that.
The national bloggers get a lot of things wrong or ignore facts when it doesn’t suit their pov. Just bcos your source of barstool sports may approve of locker-room talk on its podcasts, does not mean that such talk is legal in a place of work which includes women.
The Duke admin unfortunately walks a careful line between its current students, who tend to be quite liberal, and its wealthy alum donors, many of whom are much older and more conservative. A couple of years ago the administration proposed playing the adhan from Duke Chapel once a week, for example, but they backed down in the face of a media storm led by interfering busybodies like Franklin Graham.
As for LMo, one can only say that he’s been deeply unpopular at Duke for many years.
I was also a young gay kid coming from a poor family, the first in my family to go to college.