<p>I know they are opposite on the spectrum. I know it's 20,000 people vs 2000 people.
But I do not care about the size or environment. I travel a lot and I am OK with both big and small places. I want to know which school give me a better education.
I think I am going to major in either physics,math, or astronomy or maybe two of them. I am looking for undergraduate research opportunities. I love doing research. So I am 90% sure that I am going to pursue a PhD after 4 years of study. So which school will prepare me better for future graduate school?</p>
<p>If money wasn't an issue I'd go with Williams for the sole fact that it is a private school and you dont have to deal with UC Berkeley's class/registrations issues.</p>
<p>You can't go wrong with both. It really comes down to what would you prefer, east coast or west coast, small or big?</p>
<p>If you do a search of astronomical observatories around the world, you will be shocked at how many directors and assistant directors are graduates of Williams College. Their small astronomy and astrophysics department, and larger math department have been turning out professionals in this field for years. </p>
<p>There is obviously more research going on at Berkeley. BUT, there are some of the best graduate students in the U.S. gobbling up those research opportunities - that's what they are PAID to do. You will be competing with them. The faculty get paid for research results, not whether they happened to include undergrads in their research teams.</p>
<p>This is one particular case where I think you will find more at the liberal arts college than you will at the extraordinarily fine university.</p>
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If you do a search of astronomical observatories around the world, you will be shocked at how many directors and assistant directors are graduates of Williams College. Their small astronomy and astrophysics department, and larger math department have been turning out professionals in this field for years.
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<p>Mmmm... Sounds really good for me. Williams has the earliest astronomical observatory in the US.</p>
<p>Berkeley is world renowned in the fields you mentioned. I took an astronomy class last semester and I was very impressed with how many opportunities you have at Berkeley. That semester the class went on a free trip to Lick observatory which was about 40 miles south in San Jose and was at one time the largest telescope in the world. They also have a telescope undergrads can use on the roof of campbell hall, although they are tearing down campbell and building a state of the art physics/astronomy building so I'm not sure if they will still have a telescope when under construction. My professor was Alex Filippenko who was one of they key figures in showing that the universe was expanding at an accelerating pace and may win the nobel prize very soon. He also is very accessible to undergrads and has won Berkeley teacher of the year award numerous times. Also the grad students are truly top notch....they are probably as knowledgeable as most professors in the field. Either way you will get a great education.....at Berkeley you'll have to be more independent, but the departments you're looking into aren't that big. My friend is thinking of going to Williams but Williams for me was to remote, cold, and felt like high school, but a great school nonetheless. I think at Berkeley you will have more exposure to cutting edge research if you are independent.</p>
<p>If you want to do research, I don't know how a place like Williams can even begin to compare to a place like Berkeley. Williams is going to give you more individualized attention, and I'm sure they offer research opportunities. But Berkeley is one of the top research instutitions in the world in the areas you list.</p>
<p>I think this is about undergraduate research... I do not see any professors at Berkeley can give me any research opportunities unless I am very good.</p>
<p>thats one of the reasons why i suggested williams, because i was under the impression that at the undergrad level, it would be hard to get research opportunities with any of your professors at berkely. maybe i'm under the wrong impression, but thats what i sense.</p>
<p>All I can say that is from my experience with the professor when I went to my professor's office hours he was very engaged and excited that I was interested in the subject. I don't see UG research opportunities being a major difficulty in these fields, especially if you are very interested in these fields. With some majors at Berkeley, like MCB, getting research in the biological sciences can be competitive and you may have to apply to more projects since there are billion kids wanting to go to med school, but in these fields I just don't think it will be difficult, especially if the professor sees you have a real interest in the subject.</p>
<p>Jay Pasachoff is about as top notch internationally renown as it gets in Astronomy. If you're an astronomy major at Williams, you will not only get to know him well and work with him closely, but you will likely have many opportunities to accompany him on his eclipse viewing trips to Antarctica and other areas of the world. </p>
<p>Berkeley has more overall research to offer, but you'd be wrong to think that cutting edge research does not go on at Williams--it is wealthy enough and prestigious enough to attract top researchers who, unlike in most cases at Berkeley, have made a decision to focus on teaching and working with undergraduates, as well as conducting their own research. "Teaching quality" factors significantly into all hiring decisions at Williams. </p>
<p>My advice to you would be to check the course catalog at Williams. The physics, math, and astronomy departments are excellent at Williams, but are (with the exception of math) fairly small. If the course listing looks ok to you (not too limited), I would choose Williams--you will have far more opportunities to conduct undergraduate research, which, as you know is incredibly important for grad school. In the departments that you're interested in, the biggest difference is not going to be the quality of the professors or the quality of the research conducted, but the depth and breadth of classes offered.</p>
<p>If we are talking preparation for grad school why not go to a place where the top graduate programs in the country are located? Can you find Williams anywhere on this list?</p>
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If we are talking preparation for grad school why not go to a place where the top graduate programs in the country are located?
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<p>Well, for one reason, graduates of Williams are far more likely to get PhDs than are graduates of Berkeley. So the research that takes place at Berkeley hardly translates into lots of students going on to doctoral degrees.</p>
<p>This is true of top LAC's in general as compared to flagship state universities.</p>
<p>"Can you find Williams anywhere on this list?"</p>
<p>Williams is not on your list because it is not a "doctorate-university," although it does rank as one of the top colleges/universities for science/math students who go on to receive PhDs.</p>