<p>OMG halfbaked, my dad war a Cal prof and boith of my parents went to
D. There is no comparison for an undergrad eduation. Cal is huge, compeitive and full ofkids wondering how they will pay for the next term. It's gritty and real. Dartmouth is Disneyland. Most are concerned with picking the next party. Don't get me wrong, it's a work hard, play hard school. Go to DArtmouth for happiness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Go to Dartmouth, and then go to Cal for grad school.</p>
<p>bump for input</p>
<p>Berkeley can offer an equal (probably better) faculty, but Dartmouth does have smaller classes, and you will be given more attention, and will have to seek it to a lesser extent. The speakers that come to campus are also amazing. The environments are very different. The winter her is almost insignificant, and the Bay Area is amazing. The Darmouth community sounds more cohesive as a whole than the Berkeley community. Money-wise, I think that it will cost thousands (probably between 5-10k a year, depending on traveling costs) to go to Berkeley. I'm also not sure how full the school is of students "wondering how they will pay for the next term." </p>
<p>The "go to x, and then Berkeley/ect" argument sounds great, but most applicants to Cal's graduate programs are rejected, even many amazing ones, even from schools such as Darmouth. I just hate how people think it's so easy to fulfill this idea. But doing well there is a great way to move a step closer to a great graduate school.</p>
<p>My vote also goes to Dartmouth, for many of the same reasons stated above.</p>
<p>I didn't put the word "less" near "it would cost thousands." Woops. The amazing speakers comment was about Berkeley, also. And "her" is "here." Wow, this was perhaps the most typo-laden post I've made that I'm aware of. Grr.</p>
<p>Go to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>If you go to Berkeley, you get better faculty, excellent resources, and recruitment in a different sector (more high-tech companies than Dartmouth).</p>
<p>Problem is you have to fight for these resources and be aggressive enough to seize them from other people who want them too.</p>
<p>If you feel like you can handle that, either one will work depending on which one you like better.</p>
<p>If you'd rather have a more cooperative atmosphere with less of a darwinistic approach to education, Dartmouth would be better.</p>
<p>I think Im far more money driven than most people on this board, but heres my two cents. If you're paying OOS, than Dartmouth most definately. Not only would it be easier to get more financial aid, but the extra money you are paying would be going towards smaller class sizes, better faciltiies, etc. If you live in CA than devinately go to Cal, dont give up that incredbile instate bargain.</p>
<p>Berkeley. Those crazy hippies are awesome.</p>
<p>half baked, Cal grad here, if you're still interested in getting feedback...</p>
<p>I find it funny that people would recommend Dartmouth for the reputation. No one has heard of Dartmouth outside of the US.</p>
<p>if you were in state, i'd say go to UCB, but since you're out of state I say go to Dartmouth. The fact that you'd be paying almost the same amount if you were to attend either school makes no sense to throw your money away to a school that won't offer you small classes or personal attention.</p>
<p>Yes UCB is a great and fantastic school, but it's not worth spending that much money on it when you can spend the same amount at dartmouth. </p>
<p>BTW did you not get into Michigan-Ann Arbor?
The fact that you're instate makes it cheaper, no?</p>
<p>"No one has heard of Dartmouth outside of the US."</p>
<p>When I was studying at the U of St. Andrews in Scotland, a professor told me "I think of this place as sort of similar to Dartmouth College in the States." True story.</p>
<p>I stand corrected, some members of the faculty at St Andrews might have heard of Dartmouth. </p>
<p>Seriously though, the reputations of Dartmouth and Berkeley do not compare in Europe or Asia.</p>
<p>I'd have to say that Dartmouth for undergrad sounds like a good option...if you can tolerate the weather.</p>
<p>CalX,</p>
<p>More people in Japan have heard of UCLA than UPenn, but when it comes time to apply to grad school in the US, Penn might be a bit of a boost over UCLA. And unless the OP has a strong interest in working in Asia or Europe, who cares? I've met Brits who haven't heard of Columbia, but I'd certainly consider that a worthwhile school.</p>
<p>Go to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>It's a gem among the Ivies or any group of schools for that matter. Most people at Dartmouth love it, and with good reason. </p>
<p>I'll give a personal example: Dartmouth paid for my thesis research in the pacific ($10K), gave me TWO thesis advisors, I had 7 classes with less than 5 people, and when I started a company they gave me office space and a whole network of contacts + access to funding! How many schools do that for their students? I had lunch with Ang Lee with 5 other kids, met Broken Lizard (Super Troopers and other movies), etc in my film classes. For my "outer space" class I met with astronauts and every lunch they took 10 kids out with the guest speaker who was often amazing. I probably have visited 7 Professors houses. </p>
<p>When is came time to apply to grad school Dartmouth professors (who knew me personally) gave me some of the best recommendations I could have imagined, since I got to know them so well.</p>
<p>Yeah, its a gem.</p>
<p>UCLA is a bit different, in that like Notre Dame, it owes a good part of its reputation to pop culture, so its international reputation (which is huge) does not correlate with its academic standing (which is very good, but not superior).</p>
<p>Slipper1234, I haven't heard of Broken Lizzard, but you might have heard of Eric Rohmer, Costa-Gavras, Emma Thompson, all of whom I've met at Cal. Just this month on campus, the director of "Belle de Jour" is speaking, among others.
<a href="http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/pfa_programs/49sfiff/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/pfa_programs/49sfiff/index.html</a></p>
<p>I had the future king of Norway in my dorm and the son of a French prime minister, at least one future cabinet member. I had several dinners with two chairs of the President's Council of Economic Advisers and one Nobel prize winner, coffee and classes with two other Nobel laureates, played soccer with Johnny Marr, the guitarist from the Smiths, had beers with Mike and Billy Joe from Green Day before they hit it big, saw just about every great band at the Greek or in SF, the Kirov (they're on campus every year), Jason Kidd from courtside and the most amazing finish in the history of sports from Memorial Stadium. I had memorable meals from dozens of cuisines and saw the sun set through the Golden Gate countless times.</p>
<p>Cal has a good entrepreneurial culture as well, with office space available within a joint engineering-business-law matrix program, and with the faculty you're only one degree of separation from top silicon valley VCs. Several of my classmates started successful businesses while in school.</p>
<p>If your parents are going to spend tens of thousands of dollars more on tuition, the least you could expect to get a fraction of that back with your thesis...</p>
<p>As well, if Dartmouth profs know their students so well and write the best recommendations, wouldn't those recommendations be in effect diluted, as most Dartmouth students end up getting great writeups, the same way most end up with honors and high GPAs?</p>
<p>I think the two schools are very different. What makes Dartmouth a better experience is the ease and comfort level of being in a smaller bubble where your needs as a student are catered to, vs being in the midst of an environment at Berkeley that is much broader and potentially much richer and more stimulating, albeit less nurturing. I would personally find the small size of the bubble a bit stifling, but others could feel comfortable there and thrive within it. Personally, I couldn't conceive a better environment than Cal's.</p>
<p>Cal you have some good points I agree with. Dartmouth nurtures, while Cal is a more vast Ocean where you make your opportunities. As for dilution - one would think so but its my experience that never happens. Just as most of the Ivies have highly inflated GPAs, yet grad schools don't seem to deflate them at all. In fact, in the long run that might be the biggest boost. The Avg GPA at UNC is slightly below a 3.0 but at Brown its over a 3.4. But a UNC grad with a 3.5 at the top 20% of his class will have a lesser chance at a top grad school than slightly better than middle 50%, 3.5 from Brown.</p>
<p>This is like comparing apples and oranges. Come on people, get a clue!</p>