I’m an international student from Western Europe. I was accepted into UCBerkeley and Williams College recently, and I am having difficulty choosing which college I should go to. I will be an undergraduate.
I want to study political science and public policy along with a minor in history or justice.
I want advice on the following:
The possibility to participate in research with professors and for independent projects for undergraduate international student.
Graduate School Placement into universities such as PrincetonUni, YaleUni, HarvardUni, ColumbiaUni. As well as internships for international students.
Congratulations on your acceptances! These are completely opposite schools in every way except for academic excellence. I have no doubt that you will have many more opportunities for research as an undergrad at Williams. Have you looked at the Welcome to Williams page https://welcome.williams.edu/ Not only is a faculty member featured at the top of the page, there are links to virtual office hours and upcoming virtual classes. I wouldn’t hesitate to reach out to faculty in your areas of interest. Faculty dedicated to teaching and working with undergraduates is a hallmark of Williams (and small liberal arts colleges).
I’m tagging Williams experts @TennisParent@TheGreyKing and resident experts on small colleges vs state universities @Lindagaf and @MWolf who are always helpful and insightful.
Are you saying your net cost to attend Cal is the same as your net cost to attend Williams…as an international student? Cal doesn’t give need based aid to international students so your net cost there would be in the $65,000 a year range. Amherst does give need based aid. Cost there is about $75,000 a year.
Maybe you aren’t eligible for need based aid. Or maybe you didn’t apply for it…
Cal is a huge flagship/research university located in a very urban area of CA. The climate is nice year round.
Amherst is a small liberal arts college located in a very small town in Massachusetts. Not urban. It’s bitter cold there in the winter (I live about an hour away).
Academically these are both excellent college choices…but they are totally opposite except for their excellent academics.
You need to look at where you want to spend the next four years…oh…and make sure you have the money for all four years and not just year one.
Two great choices! Congratulations! You will get an outstanding education at either. It will come down to your personal preference, but here are some thoughts.
Where do you intend to live afterwards? Larger universities like Berkeley may be better known internationally, which may matter in your job search if you plan to work abroad… though if you go directly to a US graduate school like the ones you named, then that will not matter in the slightest. Berkeley also has warmer weather year-round.
In every other regard, I personally would pick Williams, because it is a small college versus a large university, but others might feel differently. I will share what I see as some of the most appealing aspects of Williams, some of which have to do with its size.
Upon your arrival on campus, you will have the opportunity to get to know small groups of people very well. The Freshman Entry system is incredible. Guided by two unpaid juniors who serve as big brother/sister types and not as rule enforcers, you will be in a group of about 40 freshmen who live together. An entry is like a big family at first- people to hang out with and go to meals with, before you get to know people through your classes and clubs. And besides the entry system, maybe post-Covid they will revive Ephventures- a few days of local exploration (could be visiting local places of interest by bus or backpacking and camping, as you prefer) with another little group of new students guided by two upperclassmen. Getting to know people is easy at Williams.
It also is easy to get involved in clubs at a small college, and easy to propose and begin a new club if you want.
The most amazing aspect of Williams, though, is the quality of the education. The professors are really, really great! And you will get to know them well. Classes are small and heavy on discussion. Professors are easy to talk to, will give you detailed feedback on your papers, and sometimes will invite you to their homes for dinner (pre-Covid, at least, and hopefully again in the future). And if you are stuck on Zoom because of Covid, how much easier it is to speak and chat and blog when the class is small! The majority of classes at Williams are small (except for a very few classes like Intro Psychology and Intro Art History).
Williams is unique in its Tutorial system. In a tutorial, there are only two students and professor. Each week, one of the student prepares a paper and the other student prepares a critique of that paper. They switch the next week. Tutorials are amazing and really hone writing and discussion skills.
At Williams, you won’t be competing with graduate students for research assistant positions. It is an undergraduate-centered college.
Williams students do quite well at being accepted to the nation’s top graduate programs. I am sure the admissions office can give you some helpful stats.
In general, Williams is a great place to become a strong thinker and writer, skills that will benefit you in graduate school and throughout life.
The history department is outstanding! The poli sci department is strong, too.
Is it fun? Academically, if you love learning, it is tremendous fun! I would say that the social life sounded much less fun during the pandemic because of all the restrictions. But yes, under normal circumstances, there are a lot of opportunities to get to know your peers and to participate in a wide variety of campus events. Perhaps, though, a student could answer this question better than a parent!
There are a ton of single bedrooms (ALL singles during Covid, and 60% of freshmen and most upperclassmen in singles in a normal year).
Finally, the area is breathtakingly beautiful, with the mountains right there. You can walk right to a hiking trail from campus!
Congratulations! Two great, but as others have written, very different choices. Kinda like being offered top-grade sushi or a filet mignon…
Both will provide great opportunities for research. Faculty at Williams focus a lot on research which includes undergraduates, because that lies at the heart of the mission of liberal arts colleges, while Berkeley has a very wide array of fully active research labs run by faculty, and most of them will welcome an undergraduate who would like to be part of that research
Any graduate school in the USA would happily take graduates of either college. Williams is considered one of the “Little Ivies”, and any graduate from Williams would be welcomes into any graduate program in the USA, including the Ivies. Berkeley is considered a Top National university, and graduates from Berkeley are also welcome in any graduate program, including the Ivies.
As a rule, liberal arts colleges have a higher percent of their graduates go on to do a PhD, but Williams is not one of the highest, and Berkeley does not have a relatively high percent either. Mostly this is because graduates from both schools tend to go on to professional careers, rather than academic or research careers. Both have very high placement for jobs and for professional graduate degrees.
Both have world-famous faculty members with strong connections across the academic and professional world.
As for fun, it depends on what you like doing for fun. However, I would say that Berkeley would likely provide a more interesting experience outside the boundaries of the university, while Williams would provide a more intense and immersive academic and intellectual experience.
Williams is much smaller and more intimate, but it could be claustrophobic. Berkeley is more diverse and has a more vibrant culture around, but can be alienating and lonely.
Weatherwise, Berkeley is the Bay area - Mediterranean climate with extra fog added in. The weather is nice enough to allow outdoor activities of all sorts all year round.
Williams in in the mountain NE, and is very cold in the winter and warm in the summer. Not as cold as, say, Middlebury or Colby is in the winter, but pretty cold. It is in a very beautiful area, the Berkshires, which us beautiful all year round.
So, if you like sitting in outdoor cafes most of the year, trying out different ethnic foods and attending assorted shows and festivals, Berkeley is better. If you like activities such as hiking in the hills and mountains, outdoor activities such as bonfires and cider festivals, and like visiting small New England towns, Williams is better.
If you like finding your friends on and off campus, having different friend groups for different things, Berkeley is better. If you like having a close group of friends with which you do almost everything, and like knowing most of the people with whom you take classes, etc, Williams, is better.
Academically, if you like choosing whether you want to attend the lectures, and choose how much you want to participate, like larger lectures where you listen and then think about what you heard, Berkeley is better. If you prefer small lectures and labs, where there is more discussion and more direct interaction with the instructor, and a lot more involvement on the part of the instructors and the students, Williams is a better choice.
As for research, at Berkeley, you will have the opportunity to be part of large research projects which are often at the forefront of the field. However, as an undergrad, you will have only a small part, and likely be limited to support roles, since the actual research will mostly be done by the PI, their postdocs, and their graduate students. You will also be sharing the PI’s time with those people, and will much more likely be working directly with a graduate student under the supervision of a post doc, rather than directly with the PI (principle Investigator).
At Williams, you will have research opportunities in which you will be able to run your own research projects, with the opportunities to end up as first author on peer-reviewed publications, or conference posters/presentations. You will work directly with the PI, and will only share their time with other undergraduates. On the other hand, the research itself will likely be much smaller scale.
My son is a political science major at Williams and has been very satisfied with his professors and course of learning. Berkeley is an amazing school and environment, but very big and will have limited opportunities to really get to know professors.
Williams will not be easy as professors will push for excellence, but the reward will be significant. Very common for Williams grads to go on to top graduate programs like HYP, Columbia and UC Berkeley for that matter. Best of luck in your decision
You will likely get a more personal education at Williams.
If I was choosing and was sure to want to enter an American grad school after undergrad, unless I had a very strong preference about locale and climate, I would choose Williams.
But yes, outside the US, Cal has a top-notch reputation and is well-known.
In a European context, while I would put UCL and St. Andrew’s below Cal and Williams, the difference between the 2 would be similar. Like Cal, UCL would be much more renown in most of the world with much better known researchers and is located in a big metro with much more to do with much more diverse restaurants and locals but would be much more impersonal and bureaucratic. Like Williams, St. A’s would be smaller, isolated, colder (in weather) but more intimate with smaller classes and more faculty attention to undergrads.
Current Williams students who volunteered to contact interested admitted students were given email addresses today. If you receive an email, take advantage of that opportunity to ask questions that a current student can help answer for you.