<p>coming from california, i want to know if i can get an as good architecture education from california's UCs. I know that the DAAP program at UC is very good, but how does it compare to any of the architecture programs at any of the UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA schools? i just want to make sure i'm not making the wrong choice of going to DAAP if there is an equal good program here in california. can anyone answer my question? i'm in a bit of confusion right now. thanks.</p>
<p>TaxGuy et al: I have really enjoyed your posts, TaxGuy. I had found UC Arch Program through some professional contacts a number of years ago. I don't need to be convinced that the program is unique and top notch. I travelled with my daughter last week for the Cincinnatus competition. She received early acceptance from Drexel, UC, and Penn State. We really enjoyed the campus tour and the staff and students were very professional and down to earth. We have visited Pratt, Cooper Union, UMD and Roger Williams (Rhode Island). She only desired to apply to the 3 I mention and she recently applied to Princeton. I can say that our guide, an arch student, smiled for the two hour tour in 9 degree weather. The featured speaker at the luncheon was exceptional also. Anyway... my daughter was offered a full scholarship at Drexel (Phila, Pa) About $45K for the first 2 years. The last 4 are co-op/part-time (6 credits per quarter and the co-ops pay $15 per hour at this time, so the $300 per credit/times 24 credits is easily covered by the co-ops in Phila & NY) The room & board is about $8K per year for 2 years. They accept only 28 honor students in the program. I believe UC has about 80 with half in honors, according to what I was told while I was there. My daughter is Drexel's number one pick and they are willing to pay whatever she wants to attend. Drexel's Professional (accredited to get licensed as an architect) degree is about 5 1/2 to 6 years (Undergraduate Professional degree in Arch) and all the Co-op experience counts toward the 3 year intern requirement to practice. UC takes about a year or so longer and she will wind up with a Masters in Arch I Degree (professional/accredited). I did some research, and I don't see that a Masters in Arch I does much more than "sound" better than the Undergraduate one. Master in Arch II seems to have more value for the right person, with the right reasons, at the right time. Given the fact that out of state students pay much more than in state students at UC, I am wondering what added value UC might provide, given the fact that winning a full Cincinnatus Scholarship at UC has a 10 in 1800 chance and includes all majors. The contest aspect also makes it look slightly like a "beauty contest". If someone had a stomach ache atthe competition, they might not get noticed. OK, I have been "long winded"... what do you think? The Director of the Arch Program for Honors Students at Drexel says that he already has Architectural firms lined up in Phila that will hire her and the other 27. That is why he keeps the program small... and Phila is a big place! We have had some passionate discussions on the topic here. UC certainly shows well. Drexel is well...Philadelphia. Putting all that aside, can I get some advice? Also, the arch world is a little different than academia since "Design Intelligence" ranks Arch schools... so it is hard to determine what their rankings translate to. Thanks!!!! -Pete</p>
<p>Peteycap, I did an Overview discussion in the Drexel forum. You should check it out. Geting a full ride is certainly hard to beat. However, there is a lot about Drexel that I didn't like.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>They had one of the worst, if not they worst, cafeterias and cafeteria food that I have ever experienced. It was god awful, full of fried crap and served in dingy surroundings, and this was during an open house for students and parents.</p></li>
<li><p>Their dorms were old and decrepit.</p></li>
<li><p>I really, really didn't like the area where Drexel is located, not that Cincinnati is in any prize area. My wife attended Drexel for Interior Design and transferred out. She found it much too techie and not enough friendly, social people. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Obviously, these are the musings based on one visit and based on my wife's experience many years ago. You certainly can have different views.</p>
<p>I would strongly encourage you, however, to check out other student forums such as students review. I can't give you the url because doing so would violate the posting policy here. Just do a search for "students review."
Drexel had a LOT of god awfull comments with very few positive comments. Again, you have to read the comments and take them in the light of what was said. </p>
<p>Still, it is hard to pass up a free ride.</p>
<p>By the way, the reason that the DAAP school only has about half their kids in the honors program is that the work is so hard that many kids don't see the need to make it harder on themselves. Also, their major courses are pre-selected for them; thus, geting first pick as an honors student isn't that big a deal.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Thanks. Is the Drexel Forum within this "College Confidential" Forum? </p>
<p>I am trying to stay with the "education" part of Drexel. I have been to Phila, and for me, I don't like it. However, we are in NJ and both NYC & Phila have the "ugly" factor. Also, Phila is known for pretzels with mustard and cheese steaks, so I didn't expect anything better than that in the cafeteria. We visited the honors dorm and the room that was open was dirty, beat up, and stunk of whatever disgusting stuff they ordered out. However, most students find their own place by the second year. I had to laugh, UC's Arch Labs were littered with bottles and garbage throughout. Drexel brings that "creativity" to the dorms.</p>
<p>Having said all that, Drexel is not the Ritz. But what about the Arch Program itself in comparison with UC? What advantages do you think UC brings when you walk in the door to a potential employer? Also, the Co-ops...I'm trying to weigh the good connection in Phila firms against the more glamorous co-ops all over the world at UC.</p>
<p>Finally...I don't see the benefit of a Masters in Arch I at UC over the Undergraduate Professional Degree in Arch at Drexel based on just the degree name. I have read other forums and contacted a prominent organization for architectural students (talked to the Pres) and they said "no difference"... sounds nice to have a Masters in Arch I. It seems that the Master in Arch II combined with the other 2 formats above "might" be the best for a particular student based on what they might want to do. Maybe it should be completed after working awhile. Comments?</p>
<p>If you want to send me a URL offline, I would appreciate that at <a href="mailto:petercapozzoli@optonline.net">petercapozzoli@optonline.net</a>.</p>
<p>BTW, when do they announce the Cincinnatus winners?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Peteycap</p>
<p>Putting aesthetics and general comments about UC & Drexel aside...and also the "nice factor" of a masters degree....what is better about UC over Drexel? I know that Design Intelligence ranked UC...let's forget that... what is better about the academic/co-op portion of each? NorthWestern, Drexel & DAAP have a great rep for Co-op in Architecture (Drexel's "other than Arch Co-Op is not great...UC is a 3rd tier/low end college in general...except for DAAP, Music, and Engineering... I never checked out NorthWestern). My daughter can go to either, probably both on full scholarship...that isn't the issue... I am trying to understand what is better at each. No personal comments please! :-) Thanks. -PeteyCap</p>
<p>Petey, yes, UCs main strengths are for DAAP, Music and Engineering,but their business school coops are good too. They also have a very strong and highly-ranked program in criminal justice. Other than these programs, I wouldn't generally recommend UC for the other undergraduate programs,although I hear that their Pharmacy program is top notch too.</p>
<p>By the way,DAAP is good for about anything in DAAP and not just architecture. They have highly ranked programs in both interior design and industrial design and urban planning. There doesn't seem to be a ranking program for either graphic design and digital design,but I would bet they are excellent.</p>
<p>As far as "what is better about UC over Drexel," this you would have to ascertain yourself. They have a very different feel and culture. I would check out the coops receive by the students and check out the culture. How happy are the kids at the school? Is is just great academics or is there a lot more? </p>
<p>Personally, I think that UC has more to do and more school spirit than that found at Drexel. UC is in the Big East with a strong football and basketball offering. They also have a top notch marching band and general music program even for the non-music majors. </p>
<p>There is an unlimited number of things to do at UC. Just check out their calendar of events. They have TEN calendars. True, not all are that useful to you such as their admission calendar;however, if you check out the main street calendar and CCM calendar, you will see a plethera of events each week.</p>
<p>It's a tough decision.</p>
<p>Hey! Tax Guy!!! I agree with everything you said concerning UC. I actually love that place BUT I have to tell you, I graduated from Rutgers (undergraduate), so I have to keep a low profile in the BIG EAST!!! UC beat Rutgers and Rutgers won the BIG EAST! Why is everything so complicated??? Actually, I am a lawyer dude who checks out everything and you are a well-informed loving dad that does great stuff for your daughter and all that read your well thought out intelligent posts.Everone at UC, Ellen, Jerry, Alex (our guide), the DAAP students who took us through the Honors Dorm (Edwards Dorm???), are all great. It was the only college we visited where they didn't use the word "irregardless"! hahahaha :-) Anyway, you passed the Tony Soprano test, you're good... no, you're good...so you are going to be our "Fambly Collidge Advizor" right??? Hey Jelly, convince him of dat. Kidding. Thanks Tax Guy (and BTW Tax is not a favorite topic with Italians in Joisey!!!)</p>
<p>OK I'm kidding Sandy, thanks!!! See you in Cincinnati!!!</p>
<p>BTW (again)...Jeff Ruby was on my HS wrestling team in NJ and we worked together for a few years. He hangs our with Cinc Reds these days, but we were buddies...</p>
<p>You don't know who Jeff Ruby Is???/</p>
<p>Nope, don't know who Jeff Ruby is,which shows a bit about my ignorance.</p>
<p>By the way, I didn't mention one thing: the honors dorms that I know about are QUADS! I don't like quads, but it does force people to meet a lot of other people,which my daughter has done. Most kids move out into other nice upper class dorms or move a bit off campus.</p>
<p>Also, I am also a lawyer dude and a writer. Thus, I examine and research things to the Nth degree,which drives my family crazy. You should have seen the paper that I wrote for my daughter comparing the various schools. It actually ticked her off to even have to read it! Oh well. I guess we parents can only do the best that we know how to do, even if it isn't good enough.</p>
<p>peteycap, from the fwiw catagory, Taxguy and I shared many of the same impressions, views and experiences because our kids were at this same stage of the decision-making process last year. We actually got a chance to meet at orientation last summer. My s is now a freshman in the UC Industrial design program @ DAAP . The summer following his Jr. yr. in HS, while driving him out to the CCS summer exploratory program we visited UC. We weren't five miles away after leaving UC that he announced emphatically "Dad, I'm going to Cincinnati". We're Big10 and ACC nuts but UC's facilities, faculty, campus atmosphere,the DAAP, their ID program and the Co-op were far superior in his final judgement (and ours) to every tier 1 university/college on the radar (especially rutgers, lol). I know it helped that UC had just completed a 10+ year renovation and update of the entire campus so everthing was new and fresh. He is also involved w/ the Cincinnatus and is off to a very good start both academically and socially. He lives in the honors dorms in a Quad w/ 2 Arch majors, and it has worked out great. We've been quite impressed at his growth since he started especially in the face of the demanding schedule DAAP students are challenged with.</p>
<p>The only thing I would offer that might be fresh for you is that UC is one of the best kept secrets out there. I would disagree that UC is 3rd tier as you suggest. The university has done a incredible job of shedding a decades old image of being and "inner city" , "commuter" or "last resort" academic institution. Having lived in "tier 1" college towns for half my life (UM, PSU, UNC, Duke) I would suggest the UC engr, biz, daap, medical, music, criminal justice and athletic depts. are on par or exceed those i've come to know. </p>
<p>Now you know why I dogged the scarlet knights earlier...is rumor control still pumping it that Rutgers Scianno aspires to step in Joepa's shoes when that sea change occurs? </p>
<p>best of luck to you and yours
s</p>
<p>UC said you can't apply for the Honors Program this year. When do you hear if you're accepted? What are Honors Program's pros and cons? Do you need to take lots of extra courses? What are the Honors courses like? A lot harder? Do you need to do lots of extra assignments? Should I sign up for Honors Housing? Why?</p>
<p>What are the UC cell plan pros and cons? If you sign up, which option is best? How does it compare with keeping your old plan with Cellular or Verizon? For talking with family & friends back home?</p>
<p>For Co-op, can you see a list of employers before your sophomore year? Should you do a Co-op in Cincinnati? In your hometown? Are there any International Co-ops for architecture students? Where?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Honors program cons:</p>
<ol>
<li>Access to honor's dorms with other top students</li>
<li><p>Priority for registration for classes. This can be a big deal since you can easily get closed out of classes that you want otherwise. However, as you become an upperclassmen, this benefit starts diminishing since upperclassmen get priority anyway.</p></li>
<li><p>Graduate with honors notation on diploma and get special medal/cord at graduation.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Cons: More work and harder courses
If you want normal or high honors, you have to fit in 3 special seminars that are probably unrelated to your major. Most DAAP kids get their courses pretty much picked for them; thus, having priority isn't that much of an issue. Also, because DAAP is SO DEMANDING of a major, most kids don't feel the need to work even harder in order to maintain honors status and take honors courses. Frankly, how many all nighters can one person have?! This last statement is particularly true for architecture.</p>
<p>As for coops, they begin at least in the third quarter of your sophomore year and some start in summer. You need to start having courses in your major before you can add value to the emploer. Alhtough you do get some grounding in your major in freshmen year, sophomore year is really where the real training begins.</p>
<p>Being in Cincinnati is nice,but, frankly, I would think that you would want to be elsewhere. UC has coops throughout the US and even in a number of foreign countries!</p>
<p>Bottom Line: Graduating with honors is nice. However, unless you are a kid that wants more academic challenge, the extra work and course requirements make honors questionable. It is especially tough if you are already in a tough major such as Engineering or DAAP or Music.</p>
<p>As for using the UC cell plan, all I remember from the lecture that they gave is that you get a special code to press for campus security for emergencies. I think they can track you from your phone too.</p>
<p>I second Peteycap's sentiments, TaxGuy is an invaluable resource! Does anyone know when the Cincinnatus results will be released?</p>