My son was accepted in CS for UCSC, UCD and CSULB. Any thoughts on the two programs and how we should decide one over the other? Is there a big difference in CS education from a UC versus a Cal state? My son’s goals are very similar to your son in that he is interested in the cybersecurity field. We live in Southern California.
Are costs comparable for you between the UC’s and CSULB ? Does your son have a campus/ location preference?
In general, UC’s rend to be more Research oriented and theory based vs Cal states that are hands on and geared towards preparing students to enter the work force after graduation.
I would start with comparing the CS program curriculums and looking for ABET accreditation.
ABET accreditation provides assurance that a college or university program meets the quality standards of the profession for which that program prepares graduates.
CSULB and UCD are ABET accredited and Santa Cruz is not. It is not a requirement for CS programs but for some employers it might give them a better level of confidence in the education received.
For Cybersecurity, I would see what electives are available in that specific field.
UCD:
Minimum UC GPA required: 3.0 - no exceptions
A C- or better in: (Starting in Fall 2023, a cumulative GPA of a 3.0 or higher will be required in the following courses)
- MAT 21A
- MAT 21B
- ECS 20
- One of the following series options:
a) ECS 36A and ECS 36B - ECS 36 series is not open to non-majors in pass one; starting in Fall 2023 ECS 36C will also be required
b) ECS 32A, ECS 32B, ECS 32C*, and ECS 34*
https://cs.ucdavis.edu/schedules-classes
https://cs.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk8441/files/media/documents/CS%20Sample%20Schedule.xlsx
CSULB:
Freshmen admission to engineering majors is to a ‘pre-major’ status (i.e., Pre-ComputerScience). Continuation in the major will be subject to meeting specific lower division course and GPA requirements at CSULB that indicate the student’s ability to succeed and complete the major. To become fully admitted into the Computer Science major, all prospective students (i.e., pre-majors, undeclared, major changes) must have a minimum cumulative 2.5 GPA and complete the following lower-division courses with a minimum grade of “C” prior to earning 60 units:
Core Lower-Division Major Requirements:
- MATH 122 - Calculus I (4 units)
- MATH 123 - Calculus II (4 units)
- PHYS 151 - Mechanics and Heat (4 units)
General Education Foundations Courses:
- Written and Oral Communication
CS Major Qualification courses
Students must have completed the following CS major qualification courses to qualify for the CS BS major:
Complete this courses
CSE 13S Computer Systems and C Programming 7
And these courses
Plus one of the following
Plus one of the following
Cumulative GPA
Students must also have a cumulative GPA of at least 3.0 in the CS major qualification courses attempted at UC Santa Cruz, with at most one unsuccessful attempt (grade C-, D+, D, D-, F, or NP) permitted in a CS major qualification course.
Ultimately it should come down where he would be happiest for the next 4 years.
I will add that my son joined the Cybersecurity club and completed a couple of Cybersecurity courses through Coursera.
He also took 2 GE electives in International Security and Conflict resolution at SDSU. This major is unique to SDSU but CSULB offers courses in Cybersecurity for Business but I see nothing for International Conflict or related topics.
Through the extended studies programs at many of these schools, you can find Cybersecurity related courses to take on-line.
Don’t forget to look at housing at these places.
I know that Santa Cruz is having a tough time with housing. It’s very expensive and there are no real rentals available for upperclassman. My niece is at Long Beach so there a lot more choices there. And Davis their rent can be really inexpensive when shared with a group of students.
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Note that at UCD, it is computer engineering and computer science and engineering in the College of Engineering that are ABET accredited. Computer science in the College of Letters and Science does not appear to be ABET accredited.
https://amspub.abet.org/aps/name-search?searchType=institution&keyword=davis
https://engineering.ucdavis.edu/undergraduates/majors-and-minors/abet
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If you look at the details, Computer Science and Engineering is listed twice on the ABET accreditation website with program criteria listed for CS and for Engineering. I am assuming maybe incorrectly? that the CS portion of the Computer Science and Engineering major is also accredited and since there is the CS overlap in the program between the Engineering college and CS in Letters and Sciences that the program meets their standards?
Computer Science and Engineering (BS)
Accredited: Oct 1, 1995 – Present
Accredited Locations: University of California, Davis
Date of Next Comprehensive Review: 2024–2025
Accredited By: Computing Accreditation Commission
Program Criteria: Computer Science
International Mutual Recognition Agreement: Seoul
Computer Science and Engineering (BS)
Accredited: Oct 1, 1987 – Present
Accredited Locations: University of California
Date of Next Comprehensive Review: 2024–2025
Accredited By: Engineering Accreditation Commission
Program Criteria: Computer Engineering
International Mutual Recognition Agreement: Washington Accord | Bilateral Engineers Canada
It means that the UCD CSE major is ABET accredited for both ABET accreditation categories CE and CS.
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Go with UCD as there is less housing issues compared to UCSC.
Colleges are having a hard time recruiting CS profs, I would check how many of the CS classes are taught by part-time lecturers at CSU LB and avoid going there if you find that it is common.
Yes, costs for UCs and CSULB are reasonable. At the moment, my son prefers attending a UC due to its prestige. We’ve have heard great things recently about CSULB in terms of their CS program and how supportive the school is towards helping their students succeed through many resources.
I’ve read ABET is preferred especially when trying to get a job at a defense company?
From what I remember back in the college days, the first 2 years of core classes at a UC tend to be very large in size (over 300+ students) where a lot of the students are weeded out. Is it the same way now for these kids at the UCs?
Great suggestion on finding out if the CS classes are taught by full or part-time professors and how long they have been doing it. I feel the best teachers are ones who are passionate about teaching and can teach the material in a way that everyone in class can succeed.
Just want to note that the CS program at UC Davis is identical to the CS portion of the Computer Science and Engineering program (which is ABET accredited) but the CS program has a few more ECS electives which are all found in the College of Engineering CSE program.
Per se, ABET accreditation is most important for those going for Professional Engineer licensing or the patent exam. PE licensing is important for civil engineering, sometimes important for mechanical and other engineering, but rarely important for computer engineering.
However, some employers see ABET accreditation as an indication of meeting a high minimum standard of quality at a college they are not familiar with.
Based on the UC Davis 4 year plan, the first 2 CS programming classes for Spring 2023 shows the following enrollment maximums.
ECS32: 75 maximum enrollment
ECS36: 50 maximum enrollment
Where you will see large classes will be in the General Education requirements and required major foundation classes like Calculus, Physics.
My son’s largest class was about 100 for a Cultural Anthropology class lecture but also had a smaller 20 student discussion group component.
I’m not sure what one does with this information. To start with, there is a tradeoff of class size vs permanent (ladder) faculty.
At UC the approach is to have classes taught by ladder faculty which are necessarily limited in number; this means classes tend to be larger, especially lower-division which can have hundreds apiece. To ameliorate this UC has for decades scheduled a once/week “discussion” section (seldom in my experience a discussion) with a TA grad student. In popular majors at a UC even upper-division classes can have 75+ enrolled. For example at Davis the Schedule of Classes shows the upper-division ECE 150 “Operating Systems” has 194 enrolled and many other upper-division CS classes have 150+ students.
CSU by design provides smaller classes right from the time frosh start at college, often just 30 students. But they can’t work magic with the same resources; most classes are going to be taught by part-time faculty (lecturers) as you can see by looking at the CSULB faculty list at https://www.csulb.edu/college-of-engineering/cecs-faculty There is a surplus of PhDs in the US which means that in many subjects there are people with doctorates from very good universities trying to put together a living in academia, often while looking for a full-time slot. And I know people who had great lecturers at CSU who were retired and just taught a class a term for the enjoyment of teaching.
Since you mention your son is interested in cybersecurity it’s worth pointing out that CSULB has a minor in that available.
Since this is an advice forum, here’s my advice. The college experience at these schools differ so I’d lean towards the one that is the best fit. Any UC or CSU is more than capable of preparing undergrads for successful careers in CS. The difference in your son’s future is going to come down to how hard he works to master material that is at times difficult and often time consuming (any CS student will have stories of 2am struggles with a program due the next day that has a bug somewhere). Putting in effort to find internships is also important.
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One other difference is semester vs quarter system. The quarter system is 10 weeks long and is less forgiving if students fall behind. CSU LB i believe is semester system while the other two UCs you mentioned above are on quarter system.
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