UC Irvine vs. UC Berkeley (yes, UCI vs cal...)

Applying to College
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<p>Many of you would think I'm nuts comparing these two schools. Considering that I have any choice of UC (i got into all), you would assume UCLA or Berkeley is my only choice. I plan to get into med school (unless I deviate into my other interests like architecture or business). Nonetheless, I bring up this issue in terms of competition vs. high gpa. I’ll use Berkeley and Irvine for my examples from now on. (and pardon my faulty English, as its not exactly my strongest subject.)</p>

<p>The first side of the argument is that Berkeley is prestigious and is famous for a good reason: it’s a good school. It’s high in the rankings; many would want to go. Especially for the parents, they could brag that their kid is going to Berkeley. The student would be branded a Berkeley kid and grad schools/employers would love that. Also, since you got in, Berkeley probably knows that you would fit in and would want you to go. Oh, and people always say that you get things from Berkeley that you can never get from Irvine. (what would that be then?) Irvine also doesn’t have a great reputation and people call it the ucla/Berkeley reject school (no offense, just other people generalizations). </p>

<p>On the other hand, one can argue that since Irvine isn’t a terrible school, it really isn’t that bad going there and being the cream of the crop. The idea is that you do well and get a high gpa, thus impressing the grad schools and gaining admission (vs. a lower gpa from Berkeley). Now, my English teacher, who taught for many decades, graduated from Berkeley himself and has had students come back from Berkeley and visit him. He stunned the class with an hour long lecture on how going to Berkeley isn’t the greatest thing in the world. There’s the competition and risk of killing your gpa (with the heavy workload of course). </p>

<p>Since I went to a magnet school instead of going to my local high school, I have this issue about competition. It feels as if I am in a disadvantage when I go to a highly competitve school like the one I went to, and in terms of universities, UCLA and CAL. I know other people from high school which isnt known for its academic strengths, who have similar grades/scores on SAT, AP, etc. and yet, they are ranked top 2% in their school. They got into the same schools I did, in addition to scholarships I didnt get. I certainly felt/was overshadowed by many ppl at my high school (I barely
made the top 10% in addition to a lackluster extra-curricular list).</p>

<p>I apologize for this long, and comparatively poorly written post, but it’s a concern that me and many of my friends are worried about. Both sides have equally convincing arguments, with no end to the arguments. I like the campuses (they all look great to me), the people im fine with, and location is ok too. I really hope that students, parents, or even people from the universities themselves could post a reply to this. So, PLEASE help a senior (and many others) who needs to send in his SIR by may 1. Many thanks!</p>

<p>EDIT: I hope I posted this in the right area. If not, I'll move it gladly.</p>

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<p>You present valid arguments, but there are other factors you should consider. Firstly by going to UC Irvine, you may get a higer gpa, but will it be truly indicative of your knowledge. As much as I knock standardized testing, there is a correlation between high scores and intellegence. Thus though you may get a high GPA UCI, it possible you may do poorly on the MCATs because you did not learn the material at higher level that someone at UCB may have. For example I took Calc II at a local university. Though I passed with a 4.0, chances are if I were tested on it in a standardized format, I'd probally bomb it. Grades are important to a certain degree, but in more challenging and "gpa killing" courses, you are more likely to learn more than the easy A.</p>

<p>I speak of this from first hand experiance. My SATs don't correlate with my GPA and class rank at all. Why well my school is a urban vocational school, and even though I am taking their hardest courses, it is still very easy to pass with straight As. The teachers baby the students, and thus the tests are easy, and with a little effort there is no excuse for not getting an A. The downside, I am an idiot, I bombed the sats, and really don't know anything. So I'd rather go to a tougher school and learn something rather than pass with the easy A.</p>

1 Like
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<p>thanks for the reply... I failed to list that as one of my arguements for Berkeley...good school=good education. But is there really proof that Berkeley will offer a superior experience/education versus Irvine? I see that your arguement is excellent, especially from your own experience. I certainly agree. But putting it into perspective in terms of the two excellent schools (compared to the rest of the colleges in the nation), the arguement is negligible. Also, there will be brilliant people in ANY school to compete with. Just because you go to Irvine doesn't mean that you won't be challenged to get the best education you could ever get. </p>

<p>I apologize if i am aggresive in my response, but I feel very fustrated in my indecisiveness. Once again, thanks Insane_Membrane for your informative post.</p>

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<p>If you think you can do absolutely amazing things at UCI, go there if you want. </p>

<p>But I think everything is negated by the fact that more people get into good med schools from Berkeley than from UCI. The top 40 or so will be taken from Cal; the top 5 or 6 from UCI. (I'm not sure of the exact med school stats, look them up to make sure.) Regardless of your GPA analysis, Cal is simply a better school with a better reputation that will be better received at all Med Schools. </p>

<p>I made this mistake in choosing high schools, as I decided to go for the less competitive one to get the higher GPA more easily and regret it - the other school may have been more competitive, but elite colleges know that and take many more students from there than from my school (as in 15 elite admits vs. 3). </p>

<p>Plus Cal will better prepare you for med school anyway.</p>

<p>"Berkeley will offer a superior experience/education versus Irvine." Yes. Cal has a much more authentic college experience (not commuter school like Irvine). And it has a MUCH better program. </p>

<p>The only people I've known who chose UCI over Cal got Regents (which means they basically got paid to go to UCI - $9000!) or were guaranteed a seat at their Med School later on. </p>

<p>It's your decision. The only reason I'm responding is that, living in Irvine, I would never dream of even considering UCI over Cal. Ever.</p>

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<p>Anyways, it is clear that Harvard, for example, get many of their students into law school versus say cal state fullerton. Is it possible that the students there are just simply higher caliber than the ones at cal state? Same can be applied to Cal vs. Irvine. </p>

<p>Yea, but I have friends at my school that have been fed up by the competition at Troy (my h.s.) and wanted to excell in a place where they feel as if they are not being overshadowed. I guess my experience in h.s. is the opposite of yours...really, everything is in the eye of the beholder. </p>

<p>And yea, everyone thinks im nuts for having a choice of LA and CAL and still considering Irvine w/o scholarship. (tells ya something doesnt it?!?) </p>

<p>Simply said, I hope to see an end in this debate...something can be argued either way...unless someone proves me wrong on this. (I REALLY hope that someone does! plz...plz...plz...)</p>

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<p>My friend had the same problem, but between Berkeley and Davis. And this is what I said to her and will say to you:</p>

<p>You busted your butt so far. It just gets harder from here, no doubt about it. But that's what seperates the average person from the truly successful - the ability to fight the uphill battle and come out victorious and stronger than ever before.</p>

<p>Many people think that everything will be set for you if you get into a good med school. Be honest now, when you were smaller, didn't you think that the rest of your life would be set if you get into a top college? Now, as you get closer, you realize that a BS or a BA will do little in fulfilling your dreams of being a doctor. And trust me, if you get into somewhere like Harvard medical school, you'll come to realize that it wont garuantee you anything. You'll most likely be a doctor, sure. But unless you work harder than you have ever worked before, you won't get good residencies at good hospitals. And when the time comes, you might not get good positions at good hospitals. I've heard of plenty of Harvard and UCSF graduates who didnt do too well and got stuck as family physicians in lower tier hospitals.</p>

<p>So what I'm saying is, does it really matter if you get into Harvard med from Irvine if you dont have the same level of education as someone from berkeley? Its likely that you'll fall behind. On the other hand, even if your gpa screws you over at cal and you get stuck at an average med school, graduating at the top of your class will still get you the top residency positions, and thus - the positions at top hospitals</p>

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<p>this is a very good thread and i'd like to hear more so b-u-m-p</p>

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<p>What the person said two posts above me is right, there is no easy path to being successful. Go to a school that will challenge you. Pick UCLA instead!</p>

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<p>There are some people who want to avoid competition, and that's OK. There are the truly ambitious who want to be challanged at every level and enjoy putting themselves to the test. Big fish mentality works for some, others want to just be one of a very bright crowd. The important thing is to figure out who you are and if you'll be happy with the outcome.</p>

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<p>Let me tell ya something... you are gonna face a lot of competition at UCI... I can name 12 people off the top of my head who are turning down UCLA/CAL or both to go to Irvine... most of them want to stay here in OC and don't find that an undergraduate (as opposed to a graduate) education at UCLA, for example, will be all that adventagous. Visit all these schools and you will get a vibe from the one you belong at... that's the one you should go to. People underestimate UCI.... the competition there isn't gonna be all that small... there are plenty of valedictorians who turned down the other UCs for Irvine. You (if you actually do it) won't be the first.</p>

<p>BTW: I'm turning down UCSD (my dream school) and Cal Poly SLO for I... No regrets.. hopefully</p>

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<p>I see that there will be competition at irvine (hence my statement that I would be challenged no matter what), and I know plenty of people who are turning down Cal, UCLA, SD to go to Irvine. I KNOW that I am not a very high caliber student compared to them (they got full ride to irvine, I got nada). </p>

<p>So from what I'm reading...just go to the univ. that you like and feel comfortable in? I have been thinking that way so far, but its mainly the fear of going and then looking back and thinking its a mistake. Its like a gamble...you do something and it might screw you over for many years...reasoning below:</p>

<p>What REALLY made me freak out about LA and Cal was this article that the Bruins paper put out in 2003 (you guys prob saw it already...): <a href="http://www.dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=26008%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=26008&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>BTW, I wish i could change the title of thread as its more of an arguement of idealogy rather than just a simple go to Cal or Irvine...or is it? Im not too sure myself...</p>

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<p>If you visited the campuses already... which do you feel the best about so far?</p>

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<p>You are not the only one in the same position. I was debating on UCSD or USD w/Honors. I only like UCSD b/c of its academic prestige, but I love everything about USD, so that is where I'm going, because I will be happier there, and enjoy my college experience before going off to med school. I know I can go to a better school, but I think the most important thing is where you will be happy the most, and that is what I chose. It depends on the person though. Some would say it's not smart of me to reject UCSD, but oh well</p>

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<p>Wow... what is up with everyone turning down UCSD for "worse" schools this year. I'm turning it down for UCI... you are turning it down for USD... I even know a couple of people who are turning it down to go to community college... every person I know who has checked out the campus has come back dissappointed and decided to attend another school... what is up with that?</p>

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<p>I like the UCSD campus lots & therefore I'm glad that I'm going there...but it does make me nervous to know that if you guys turn down UCSD for UCI and etc..what <em>kind</em> of people turn down other schools for UCSD??</p>

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<p>I want to go to UCI cause I live 5 min. from it and it's a pretty damn good school....no. 10 public school in the nation according to US News...</p>

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<p>i'm one of those turning down UCSD to go to community college =) not proud of it, but hey why not? i think it'll serve me right in the long run since i plan to transfer to where i'm actually HAPPY at. first of all.. i hate berkeley haha no offense it's just personal opinion.. i think you should go to ucla, but thats me. you should really visit, get a feel for those three schools.. maybe UCSD also (it's a really good school, just not for me). and wherever makes you happy gooo. i think people will do good at a place where they want to be. i also come from a verry competitive hs in CA.. one of the best, and i went through the exactly same thing as you.. still am... but i'm choosing to go to USC which is where i want to be. but theres going to be competition everywhere.. just go somewhere where you can be yourself.. where the academics are not too much and not too easy... balance yourself out i guess. and be happy!! goodluck =)</p>

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<p>I agree with what other posters said. Go to someplace you will be happy, that will fit your personality, will challenge you in a way that you will find stimulating.</p>

<p>I'm currently a grad student at Cal and felt really fortunate to have gotten into my program. I attribute getting in to a good, but not a really "name brand" undergrad institution, a decent GPA, good GRE scores, some other experiences such as industry experience for a few years (considered for professional master's degrees), good application and letters of recommendation. There were only a few people in my program that got in from non "name brand" schools, however. Most were from undergrad schools like MIT, Princeton, UCLA, Berkeley, etc. If you go to a less known school you may need to prepare to make yourself more desirable to the graduate school admisisons comittee in other ways.</p>

<p>One question to ask yourself. Will you want to go to a very competetitive graduate program in 4 or 5 years if you want to avoid the competition now? Neither way is right or wrong according to my perspective since I understand wanting to avoid some of the horrors and stress of extreme competition. It's just something to think about since you may not want to feel so competitive in 4 years, either. Your basic personality probably will not have changed in 4 years.</p>

<p>People who I've talked with that did their undergrad here at Cal said it was very competitive and some really disliked that aspect of school. They had to learn to take grades a little less seriously in order to maintain their sanity. Once you get in to grad school, some programs seem less directly competitive since people are all working on specific topics that are very different from many of their peers. On the other hand I've heard many stories of the nasty things that go on in law and medical school because of the competitiveness there. It largely depends on the program as far as graduate school competitiveness goes.</p>

<p>If you go to any large, competitive and prestigious public school I think you'll probably find non-ideal things like huge class sizes for many classes, less interaction with the professors and more interaction with grad students in the discussion sections. From what I understand these problems are less the case at private schools such as Stanford (sorry I don't really know about USC), but then you pay lots of money for the experience (or have to try getting scholarships, grants and loans if you don't have the money).</p>

<p>Just be sure you're going to the school you like and you feel will be best for you. Don't let fear about competition get in your way. You can do it and you'll learn a lot. I wouldn't consider the competition factor so heavily, personally. Will the world end if you get a C or two and some Bs in addition to your As? Are you sure you won't get some hard ass teachers at another school that will give you those same grades, anyway? What will you like better and help you with your goals and values? It's hard to make decisions about things like this, but I'd suggest you look at other things in addition, such as:</p>

<p>Will you be able to go to out-of-class seminars from the leaders in whatever field you are interested in on a regular basis? I found these opportunities invaluable. Many of the lesser schools do not attract these caliber of visiting speakers and experts (in addition to the calibre faculty there). I find these opportunities really enlightening and exciting.</p>

<p>Where do you want to live? What kind of an undergrad social experience do you want to have? Close to home, far from home? Personally I regret not moving away to college when I was an undergrad. Sure I saved money, but I missed out on social activities and independance that I wish I'd had more of at the time. Being away from home and surrounded by others like you is a very different experience than going to a commuter school where everyone drives in for class and drives out afterwards. The social ties you make can be valuable to your future success, too. The people you are around can be very stimulating, also.</p>

<p>Each school has a certain reputation that is probably somewhat hype and somewhat real. Try to find out about what it's like from people you know who have gone there. Ask them what they like and dislike about their experience.</p>

<p>For example, Cal has the reputaton of being both competitive, having a "chill" vibe for how good a school it is, and having an emphasis on social issues and activism. Lots of this is hype, but there are many instances when it isn't only hype. For example, I had a graduate business class where we were suggested to do projects involving something that might make a positive difference to society instead of focusing only on profit or other items. An MBA group member had also gone to Afghanistan the summer before to record native folk music (very unusual, especially for MBA types). Having this kind of experience might not be something you're interested in, but there are unique things about every school. Try to find out what they are and see if you think it's something you would like or enjoy.</p>

<p>I don't know that much about UCLA except my buddies who went to undergrad there said there were lots more scanttily clad beautiful women. I'm sure there are other specifics about UCLA that make it have it's own personality.</p>

<p>My impression is that UCSD is a lot more of a commuter school and you'll probably have less daily interaction with other students unless you try to focus on that aspect.</p>

<p>Sorry for the long post and I'm sure there are other things people could bring up. But the point is to get you thinking about other aspects of your decision than merely grades, cost and other things.</p>

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<p>many thanks for everyone's helpful replies...especially sbfisher and Lamdun (some good insights there too). I REALLY appreciate it!!!</p>

<p>I thought about this for a LONG time, as you guys can see from my lack of posts for a while. I really think that the worries of competition is fairly trivial, its a matter of how much I really put into my time at a college. (in other words, how much im willing to work my butt off and i AM willing to lose body parts in the process). And now for my boring summation of what has happened:</p>

<p>I only got into the UCs and cal poly pomona. (didnt apply to privates...too much $$). After visiting Cal on Cal day, and the other schools over my spring break, I finally narrowed it down to 2 schools. (yes, i realize i have 3...or 2.5 more days left to send in my SIR). Cal is a bit far from home and I want to stay close by for various reasons: family and friends mainly. Also, I didnt really feel "at home" there...nor safe for that matter. UCSD (Revelle) didn't look too glamorous, but I'll get used to it right? Too many trees, lol. Why compromise when theres UCLA and UCI's great campuses. UCSD offers practically the same thing as LA and Irvine in what I THINK I want to study: sciences or engineering. As a fallback or a minor, I wanted to study business, which UCI has.</p>

<p>Long story short, its down to ucla or uci. All but one of my good friends are going to UCI (they turned down SD cuz they didnt like the campus). I'll be dorming, so UCI's dorms wins hands down. But at the same time, the "ivyness" of UCLA's campus looks nice too. Irvine's spaciousness is great too. But at the same time, if I choose Irvine, I feel as if I am not taking advantage of my opportunities. I ended up where I wanted to be right now as a senior, even when I attended a magnet school (which may or may not attributed to my current situation), so UCLA may have a similar environment where I can thrive. BUT at the same time, Irvine may give me more free time to pursue other things nonacademic. Both schools are equally far away from home, so it does not matter. I go no grants or scholarships, so theres not really a sway towards any direction. One hour ago, I liked Irvine. Now, its UCLA. I'm hoping to send in my SIR tonight, so any last minute responses are appreciated. Once again, you guys (and gals for that matter) have been extremely helpful and invaluable in my college decisions. Thanks!</p>

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<p>hey...i just happened to stumble onto this site tonight
i'm facing the same problems tryin to decide which UC to go to (either UCLA or UCBerkeley).
UCLA had always been my dream school and i had been really siked when i received my admissions letter.
then my mom comes along and keeps telling me that i should go to Berkeley because it is a "good" school and how prestigious it is. she says that it would be better of to live closer to home (since i live in NorCal in the bay area).
she also starts bringing up how if i get terribly ill in UCLA, i wouldn't have anybody to help me and that it would be really tough....but then that's all part of learning to become independent right? that's what i told her but she kept arguing that Berkeley was better and now, it's almost may 1st (deadline for intent to enroll submittance) and i'm torn between these two colleges
the situations are:-
1) i have been accepted in both of the UCs as a bio major
2) i got accepted for the Fall semester @ UCLA and the Spring semester @ Berkeley (even though i applied for fall)
3) if i do enroll at Berkeley, i have these options
i) apply for the Fall Extension Classes @ Berkeley which i have to pay an application fee of $100 or so and the rest of the tuition is around $3800. the thing is that they only accept 680 students and it's on first come first serve basis and i really dont want to pay $100 and face the risk of not getting in because i'm from a low income household
ii) i could enroll at a community college for the fall semester (but im not sure if they are still accepting applications at the college i have in mind)
iii) i could stya out of school for a semester and maybe find a job or just relax for a few months till january 07. the thing is, once you stay out of school, you wouldn't want to go back anymore......
iv) housing isn't guaranteed for spring admits (which sucks because i want to live on campus for my first year)</p>

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<p>with that being said, i am still very confused and the deadline is rollin closer....UCLA or BERKELEY?! help....?</p>

<p>oh yea, if i choose UCLA, past graduates told me that if i regret my decision and want to transfer back to berkeley, it would be really hard.....what now?></p>