UC San Diego -- or Prostitute College

Parents Forum
41

<p>I don't have any worries about this kid and her scores. So what if she only got a 500 on her math. She's not going to be persuing a technical or science degree. She's a Russian/Soviet Studies major. She'll probably be able to graduate by taking minimal math courses. I'll check the website and try to find out what math (if any) she will have to take.</p>

<p>Her strengths are obviously in the more liberal arts areas -- her high writing score and her SAT II & AP history scores show her strengths.</p>

42

<p>Here it is:</p>

<p>At UC San Diego, the Russian/Soviet Studies dept is in Muir College. </p>

<p>For Math/Natural Sciences, it only requires ONE year long set of courses selected from below. Therefore, Maia could graduate without having to take one math course!!!! So..... no big deal that her Math SAT was only 500!!!</p>

<p>Math/Natural Sciences</p>

<p>Choose ONE year-long sequence. Courses marked # must be taken in sequential order.</p>

<pre><code>* #MATH 10A-B-C
* #MATH 20A-B-C (effective Fall 2003)
* Biology (BILD) 10 plus any two courses from 7, 12, 14, 20, 22, 24, 26, 30, 32, 36 (Although this sequence is for non-science majors, Biology 10 contains a significant amount of chemistry)
* #Chemistry (CHEM) 6A-B-C
* #Chemistry (CHEM) 6A, 6B; Biology (BILD) 1
* Chemistry (CHEM) 11-12-13 (non-science major sequence)
* Earth Science (ERTH) 1, 10, 20, 30 (choose three)
* #Physics (PHYS) 1A-B-C
* #Physics (PHYS) 2A-B-C
* #Physics (PHYS) 4A*-B-C (* 4A commences winter quarter)
* Physics (PHYS) 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 (choose three)
</code></pre>

43

<p>The issue is not just whether she will need math at UCSD; her score of 500 is below the national average and well below what the UC expects (580). Most posters have commented on the fact that she was admitted to UCSD or complained about not being admitted to some other UCs. </p>

<p>In fact, with that kind of math score, Maia will very likely struggle in physics and chemistry and possibly in biology as well.</p>

<p>My own point was that it was strange that, since Maia did so poorly on the SAT math after two tries, presumably at the end of 11th grade or beginning of 12th grade, her mother thought she should have been able to graduate from high school early. I think the comments from the private school's GC to be spot on.</p>

44

<p>LDMom, no, someone from NPR <em>might</em> look at something from 17 different perspectives without reaching any conclusion.</p>

<p>The NRO, however, is in a bubble, located two steps over from the sixth circle of Dante's Inferno, north by northwest of the Land of the Lotus Eaters, to the right of Potzdorf (20 points for citation of the allusion without resorting to Google), downwind from Wonderland, mauve from Mooseturd, Montana, and E-flat from downtown Bakersfield, California.</p>

45

<p>Without belaboring the individual too much - and I agree that weak math skills aren't a deal-breaker for many majors - I'm a little uncomfortable with some of the assumptions people seem to make about UC selectivity. Jlauer95 - her SAT II scores are only in the 79th and 64th percentiles for those tests. UC -as a whole - is for the top 12.5% of graduating students. Granted, the SAT II test-takers are a self-selected group; still, I wouldn't necessarily describe those scores as indications of relative strength for a UC-bound student. This applicant had test scores below the 25th percentile for UCSD enrollees and a GPA which I'm sure was even lower than that on a relative basis. She had no reason to be surprised at not being admitted to UCSB, or to think she would be accepted at UCLA or, frankly, at UCSD. But she was, and I see no reason why she shouldn't succeed at UCSD now that she's there. She is a good writer, and 4% of the entering students last year had Math SAT's below 500, so she's not all alone.</p>

46

<p>
[quote]
and 4% of the entering students last year had Math SAT's below 500, so she's not all alone.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting. Do we know what types of students constitute the 4% and what is their graduation rate?</p>

47

<p>calmom:</p>

<p>I'm fully aware of the UC minimums. But, I would strongly discourage any student from attending the top 3 UC's without strong academic preparation (due to UC competition). </p>

<p>Don't forget, prior to recentering, that 500 was, what a 470? </p>

<p>Moreover, IMO, UCSD is the most competitive UC campus since it is chock-full of Cal and UCLA rejects -- kids, who had the numbers to be competitive with the flagships, but essays or something else didn't work for the reader. Many others do choose San Diego as a first choice, but those kids are mostly bio-sci majors since La Jolla has probably the best bio-sci program in the country.</p>

<p>jlauer: don't forget, the UCs do not offer remedial math. With Maia's math score of 500 (after Algebra II!), she is essentially precluded from ~60+% of San Diego courses, and what it does best. Moreover, even if she takes an intro science class, think of the competition -- premeds (looking for easy A's) and kids with 1400's.....the UC class curves in the math/sciences are legendary (15% A's, 20% B's.....)</p>

<p>Look at her situation another way: her scores would not have likely gotten her into Cal State San Diego -- impacted campus, nor Cal Poly. </p>

<p>I don't doubt that the article left a lot out, perhaps learning disability? But, we only have what her mom wrote. If she were my kid, I would've recommended the lower UC's, which are less compeittive, and where she could likley thrive.</p>

<p>I do LOVE the title tho. :)</p>

48

<p>I think the girl could have benefitted from another year of preparation before entering UCSD, but OTOH, I know that a lot of less than stellar students are graduating early-- at least they are graduating early from the local public school in my area, because they can't stand the school , and the block schedule has enabled them to accumulate credits toward graduation faster than the old traditional schedule did. Many of these kids are not on the UC track, though. Their motivation is just to put high school behind them as quickly as possible. Most of the better students that I know (not all, though, I can think of one exception) tend to do the four years.</p>

<p>Her grades are not necessarily a predictor of "struggles" at UCSD. My S had similar grades and does not seem to be struggling at UChicago. Her attitude though (per Xiggi's post), may cause her some problems. She sounds a tad immature. :).</p>

49

<p>fwiw:</p>

<p>Maia's stats (what we have to work with) are also below the average San Diego State Univ. matriculant for out-of-area.</p>

50

<p>Mstee:
I do know of students who want to graduate early from hs because they're bored and are not intending to go to college. But that is not the case of this young woman.</p>

<p>My S graduated early, as did two other students at his hs. BUT they had top board scores, had many APs and taken advanced college level classes.</p>

<p>When my S was in 10th grade, already having 3 APs, and already having taken Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra, I contacted an admission officer and asked his advice about early graduation. He encouraged my S to stay the whole four years and build the strongest possible profile. In the fall of S's junior year, I asked another adcom about whether S should apply EA or RD; again, I was told that S should build the strongest possible profile. My S disregarded both bits of advice, and applied in his junior year, EA. By the time he entered college, he had 6 APs (five 5s one 4) and 9 college classes, not all in the same field. The other two early graduates had similar profiles. That is not the case with Maia.</p>

51

<p>she won't have to take a science class with pre meds.she can take a science sequence for non majors (the equiv of "rocks for jocks") and if needed,get tutoring help.
This poor mother..I bet she's sorry she ever posted this info about her DD.</p>

52

<p>I agree with you marite--at least I think I do, if we are both saying that Maia does not seem all that well prepared for college (with the exception of the Russian language classes) and wonder why she felt compelled to graduate early. She seems not all that ready. Just IMO, based on the limited info given.</p>

<p>But to each his own. Good luck to Maia. Hope she's ready.</p>

53

<p>it looks like she did skip 12th grade after all. From mom's website:</p>

<p>"..... also think she's quite capable of beginning college next year instead of 12th grade. I'm aware many parents find that rather shocking, but other people's disapproval never matters much to me."</p>

54

<p>Cathymee, I was just thinking that it seems pretty rotten for a parent to write an article detailing this girl's scores and grades. My kids would have a fit if I violated their privacy to this degree, though it would never occur to me to do so.</p>

55

<p>I am amazed at the pompous, self-righteous comments that permeate this thread. </p>

<p>I graduated from high school early, and was admitted to a more selective UC campus as an out-of-stater. I was 16 years old. School was easy. I did a lot of partying, didn't really settle down until junior year. I never really found myself challenged until I got to law school. The UC's just aren't all that difficult. </p>

<p>I don't care what the test scores are of today's students. I live in California and I know darn well what the public high schools are like... and truthfully, it's not pretty. And that is the pool from which UC students are drawn. </p>

<p>My d. has been accepted to UCSB and I've seen the stats about the GPA's of admitted students -- and frankly, I don't believe it. Not with the eligibility index (See: <a href="http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman/scholarship_reqs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman/scholarship_reqs.html&lt;/a> ). It simply would be a statistical anomoly achievable only in Lake Wobegon, because based on the GPA eligibility spread, the median is going to fall much lower that 3.9, and a campus that accepts half of its applicants is not going to end up with only the top eschelon. They are fudging with numbers. There are simply far more students who are going to have GPA's in the 2.8-3.8 range than the 3.9+ range. </p>

<p>Finally, my d. followed a path through high school a lot like Maia's. My d. spent 4 years in high school, but she took off for a semester in junior year to live and study in Russia -- and Russian is a very tough language to master. When my d. got back she wasn't able to take a full high school load her spring semester, and she never was able to fit in any more math -- so she hasn't had any high school math since the 10th grade, when she took advanced algebra. She couldn't manage a 3rd year of a lab science either, and she had to forego AP US history. She did better than Maia on the SAT, but not by all that much. Her SAT II's were so weak that she submitted them ONLY to UC and gave private colleges only her ACT score, which wasn't all that hot. </p>

<p>What kids like my d. and Maia have going for them is that they are independent thinkers. They figure out what they want and they go for it, and they tend to dismiss the well-meaning advice of naysayers like a guidance counselor urging more AP's. Their rationale is something like this: "why waste time doing something difficult for me that I am not interested in, when I can be doing X for myself instead"? They aren't afraid of challenge, but they are self-directed and will gravitate toward their own interests and passions. Kids like that tend to do very well for themselves in college and career because they operate very efficiently: they don't waste time trying to please others, and they make choices that maximize their talents, abilities, & interests. </p>

<p>Yes, they skip a few steps -- a year of high school, a recommended course of study. I managed to get through college without taking a single math course, and no hard science beyond the first quarter Chem 1A. I have a B.S. degree. Yeah, from UC. Cute, isn't it? </p>

<p>They also end up with the lopsided profiles that make them interesting to college ad coms. UC San Diego needs students for its Russian classes - they only had one student graduate with a Russian studies degree last year. Maia is UC-eligible and her record shows that she is dead serious about studying Russian. Hence Maia gets in. </p>

<p>And my daughter gets into NYU. </p>

<p>I know that folks like us probably drive the hard working rule-followers of the world absolutely nuts, and your frustration is apparent in your posts. By "entitlement" you mean to say, we haven't paid our dues so we don't deserve the prize. But unfortunately, that's the way the world works - in the end, the risk-takers end up reaping the largest rewards, though of course they have deviated far the path of the tried-and-true and things don't always go as planned.</p>

56

<p>Calmom, sometimes you amaze me. I don't see that any of the posters have been pompous or self-righteous. And I don't think the fact that you never took a single math class in college is worth boasting about -- I also imagine that if you had taken courses in the physical sciences, you might think that the UC's are, indeed, somewhat challenging.</p>

<p>It's possible to get a degree without getting an education, and I think the parents on this forum are expressing concern that this girl is entering college with some significant handicaps. It's difficult to decide to be pre-med, for example, as a sophomore or junior without the requisite preparation. And, no, people like you don't drive rule followers like me crazy -- we just see the world very differently.</p>

57

<p>calmom: I don't see how you, your daughter, and Maia took "risks"...what exactly were they? The way you put it, you make it seem as if everything your daughter and Maia did was on purpose, as if they tried so hard to be unconventional. Quite frankly, it seems like they screwed around in high school, and got lucky with admissions. I don't see any self direction, I just see a scatter brain thought process on planing out a high school career and future. Well, they've certainly gamed the college system, and if you want to brag about it, go right ahead.</p>

58

<p>calmom:
Maia was in a private school. The mother took her out and put her into a public school because she was unwilling to follow the GC's advice to make her daughter stay in high school for four years. I assume that the private school did not have the problems which you say public schools do.</p>

59

<p>sjmom, I wasn't boasting, I was pointing out that the UC's don't require all their students to take math, so Maia's difficulty with math is not going to be a problem for her Russian studies major. Everyone here is judging the kid and predicting doom based on her SAT scores - meanwhile the kid is worried that UCSD may not have enough offerings in its Russian department to keep her challenged. Maia has it right. UCSD isn't going to overwhelm her, but in her area of interest it is possible that it will underwhelm.</p>

<p>And Marite, if Maia's private school is better than the public schools, that is all the more reason to believe Maia is well prepared and will do well at UCSD. </p>

<p>My point is that a lot of people predict doom for this kid because she didn't jump through every hoop that she is supposed to. The critics lambasted my poor mother, too, when she gave me 100% support and her blessing to graduate early from high school and leave the state for college. Seven years down the line I had a law degree from Boalt. Self-directed, self-motivated independent-natured kids tend to do well, though not always by traditional measures - since they often simply do not care about things like grades or academic honors. The key is in the level of motivation, not test scores or standardized measurements. It is sometimes very, very difficult for those with an independent, creative streak to select an answer from only 4 or 5 options, none of which seems particularly good.</p>

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<p>Calmom, at the risk of sounding pompous and self-righteous, I elect not to assume that UC simply lies about the grades and SAT scores of their applicants, admittees, and enrollees, for every campus, at every opportunity. In fact, the numbers posted by UC are consistent, from their websites, to the common data set numbers, to the Moores report study which exhaustively dissected UC Berkeley's admissions process from start to finish (which I have read.) The thing is, students who are at the lower end of UC's eligibility standard will only be accepted into Riverside (or now, Merced.) A lot don't want to go there, and choose a CSU instead. It's not a secret, and it's not rocket science: the admissions standards posted by the UC schools do correspond with actual admissions chances for most people. My older son had better grades and test scores than Maia did - he was only admitted to Riverside (and chose to go to San Diego State instead.) My younger son had SAT scores over 400 points higher than Maia, SAT II scores that were each 100+ points higher, and better grades (from a tough grading school.) He did get into UCSB, but not UCSD. (He has much better "stats" than I did. I got into Berkeley, at age 17, and had an experience similar to yours. I honestly think it's tougher nowadays.)</p>

<p>I understand your analysis - but you've failed to understand all the variables. Pretty much all of the students at the top end of the eligibility scale apply to UC. Many of the students at the lower end don't.</p>

<p>Marite - I just found the 4% on UCSD's common data set numbers. I don't know anything more about who they are.</p>