<p>I would Take the University of California system. Better Location,and Two schools have a major sports program. And of course Superior Academics Top Medical, Engineering, Architecture, Film, Arts, Sciences and liberal Studies programs in the nation.</p>
<p>Berkeley
UCLA
UCSF
UCSD
UCSB
UCSC<br>
UCR<br>
UCI<br>
UCD<br>
UCM</p>
<p>Other than for a few undergrad programs (Haas and engineering at Cal, BME at SD, film at LA to name a few ) threy don't come close. It's grad programs where the top UCs excel.</p>
<p>The Ivy League cares (or at least pretends to care) about undergraduates.</p>
<p>Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UPenn, Columbia > All UCs
Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth = UCB/UCLA :rolleyes:</p>
<p>The Ivy's want you to do well once they let you in because otherwise it reflects poorly on them and their admissions policy. At UCB once you get in you are on your own. They prof. seem to feel that if the class isn't next to impossible you wouldn't be at BERKELEY.</p>
<p>The UC's are kind of interesting to me...ARE there any that are worth paying out of state for, care about undergrads, and are still good at the natural sciences? (basically, which are good other than Berkely?)</p>
<p>I honestly don't think any UCs are worth the money for undergrad out of state.
I say this as a huge Berkeley fan--if you're good enough to get into UCs OOS, then you can probably go somewhere more intimate for your undergrad.
Now Cal grad is completely different...</p>
<p>Can anyone pinpoint the differences between these two systems. And only on Academics....I think only SIZE OF CLASS is what UC's fail in....</p>
<p>Ssystems? UCs are a system, ivies are individual schools. First, the UCs promote unhealthy competition with their vicious curves. I looked at only one, but the students were far less content with their college experience than at any ivy I visited and for many reasons. Most UC students don't develop real relationships with professors. At ivies it's typical for studentsto be invited to dinner by profs. UCs also have a lot of what I view as useless requirements. At ivies you can have no requirements or classics core, depending on what you want. It's much easier to get the classes you want and need at an ivy, most UC students take at least 5 years to graduate. UCs have a pathetic endowment, that has impact on everything. And most important to me,
ivies have a much better peer group. Everyone is not from the same state. A huge number of kids are not transfers who could never have gotten in as freshmen. While some UCs look hard to get into, keep in mind they are drawing from a limited pool. Look at average SAT scores compared to those at ivies.</p>