<p>Please help! I'm split 50/50 between Berkeley computer engineering and University of Washington direct admit computer science/engineering. Any suggestions, comments, pros and cons would be appreciated. Thanks!</p>
<p>Net cost of attendance after applying non-loan financial aid and scholarships?</p>
<p>with scholarships, grants, work study and loans, all costs are covered at both schools so money will not be an issue. my biggest concern is the CS workload at Berkeley; how do you balance your social life/ EC’s with the intense academics?</p>
<p>There is no bloody comparison. For CS, you have gotten into one of the top 5 schools in the world, and it’s not UW. </p>
<p>All the networking and connections that you’ll get at Cal will set you up for life. Plus it’s right next to Silicon Valley.</p>
<p>No-brainer for me.</p>
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<p>How much debt will you have at graduation for each school?</p>
<p>Ucb $109,912. Uw $88,376</p>
<p>That is waaaayyy too much debt. You should not be taking that much on, even if you are looking at a high paying major. Do you have any other options?</p>
<p>@alwaysleah: EE[CS] graduates from Berkeley have an average starting salary of like $80k right out of college. </p>
<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/CompSci.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/CompSci.stm</a>
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm</a></p>
<p>So as a general estimate, in like two years ( I know I’m not considering all the financial reprecautions ) he’ll be debt-free; Berkeley is totally worth it. </p>
<p>I’m an EECS major taking out loans too and I don’t regret the money woes at all.</p>
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<p>Both are higher than the first year new graduate pay levels for EE or CS, which some recommend should be the limit on student loans (other recommend a more conservative limit of half of the first year new graduate pay for your major, or the subsidized Stafford loan limit, currently $23,000, whichever is less).</p>
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<p>$80,000 gross pay becomes something like $46,000 to $50,000 after payroll tax, federal income tax, and (depending on state) state income tax. Assuming the new graduate continues to live a student lifestyle in terms of spending habits (Berkeley financial aid assumes about $15,000 off campus living expenses for an academic year, so that comes to about $20,000 for a full year), that leaves only $26,000 to $30,000 per year to pay off the debt (which will grow due to interest accumulation).</p>
<p>Of course, jobs may be in places that are more expensive to live in, or may require commuting costs that add to the living expenses. Some very cheap living options like the BSC co-ops require student status. And how many new graduates receiving their first paychecks will continue to live as frugally as they did as students? So quickly paying off $88,000 to $109,000 of debt is not likely to be a realistic expectation.</p>
<p>To the OP: where else did you get in, at what net cost after applying non-loan financial aid?</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus: You’re a lot smarter than I am with the facts and figures you busted out, and maybe I shouldn’t have used hard numbers, but what I was getting at is that Berkeley EE/CS is really worth it in the long run. If the OP works as a Software Engineer/Manager until s/he retires, the amount of money s/he will have made won’t even compare to how much s/he took out for loans. You always have really strong, factually sound posts which is great, but considering the OP didn’t actually bring up money as a deciding factor, I didn’t think s/he needed that much hard data.</p>
<p>@OP: The workload is manageable. It’s extremely dependent on the person though. I have friends who don’t need to study and get A’s and some who struggle to get B’s and C’s. None of us can really tell you if you succeed until you get here, but you’ll never know unless you try.</p>
<p>In computer science, the pay is relatively flat. My stepfather went to CSU East Bay and makes as much as UCB grads. If the OP has cheaper alternatives, it is important to consider them.</p>
<p>@alwaysleah: Software Engineers don’t even need a CS degree so I’m not surprised at his salary. Having a Berkeley EECS degree does help with the job search though, since we’re so heavily recruited. I’d assume your stepfather had a harder time getting his first job than a Berkeley grad with a similar resume at the same time did, but I could be wrong. Money should definitely be considered, but seeing as how the OP is 50/50 between UW and Berkeley, and said money wasn’t a factor, I went on the assumption that s/he had already considered it and disregarded it.</p>
<p>No, actually he got a job right out of college and they paid for him to do a masters a couple years later. </p>
<p>I have no doubt that Berkeley provides great advantages. However, are these advantages worth 100k+ in debt? Not necessarily. </p>
<p>I agree that the OP had thought about debt and disregarded it, as many students do. But if s/he can catch that mistake now and understand the impact that debt will have later, then it will be immensely helpful. I just think its important to put all options out there.</p>
<p>also got into UCSD and UT Austin, but i’ve already turned them down. UCB & UW are my 2 top choices. Unfortunately, CS isn’t too strong at the local flagship, hence the need to go OOS and incur debt. i appreciate the input and will hopefully figure out the best fit with all the available info</p>
<p>Go with Cal. You got into EECS. Arguably one of the most prestigious degree an undergrad can pursue. You’ll be set for life if manage to graduate with this degree.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately, high school students often are not aware how much of a problem high debt can be in fulfilling their post-graduation goals.</p>
<p>Someone in high debt may be more constrained in various choices, including jobs (must choose the highest pay (net of taxes and living expenses) even if some other job provides a better overall package including more interesting work, better career development, etc.).</p>
<p>The OP should have included on the application list some respectable schools for CS with lower list prices (e.g. Minnesota, NCSU, Massachusetts - Amherst, Stony Brook) and the few publics which do give decent financial aid to out of state students (Virginia and North Carolina), as well as privates which may be more generous with need and/or merit aid (e.g. Stanford, USC).</p>
<p>Note that Washington is a very respectable school for CS, and the OP, as a direct admit to CS, won’t have to face the issue of applying for the major later (apparently extremely difficult to be admitted if not directly admitted). But $88,376 is still a very large amount of debt.</p>
<p>Suggestion for the OP:</p>
<p>Check the curriculum and AP credit policies at each school to see if you can come up with a realistic plan to graduate in fewer than 8 semesters or 12 quarters. Each fewer semester or quarter will save you some debt. “Realistic” means a typical course load of 15-16 units average per semester or quarter, and not too many high workload lab, programming, or term projects in the same semester or quarter.</p>
<p>I think that to most people, Cal EECS will not be worth over 100k in debt, and UW probably isn’t worth over 80k in debt, either. You need to realize that you will actually end up paying significantly more than 100k after interest. The beauty of this program, as I have found, does not come directly from its prestige. Rather, it comes from this school’s deep, powerful connections in the technology industry, which is extremely valuable when you are searching for your first job. Berkeley engineering makes it easier to be successful in your career, but you certainly have the potential to be just as successful if you go somewhere else.</p>
<p>But you have an alternative – I know it’s not popular or attractive, but I’d like to point out that you can cut that debt at least in half by transferring to Cal from a community college. If you qualify for the Cal Grant, then you are cutting out way more than half of the debt, because the Cal Grant is significantly larger in your last 2 years of college, which would be the only time that you’re at Cal as a transfer. I transferred (EECS as well), and I will graduate debt-free, or close to it. If I had come in as a freshman, I would have probably ended up leaving with AT LEAST 30-50k in debt. </p>
<p>Bottom line: I don’t think either school is worth the price tag; however, if you transferred, the price tag would be a fraction of what you stated earlier, and this decision would be a no-brainer. I know that you probably won’t do that, and I understand that it doesn’t sound like fun. But that’s what I did, and in the end, it was the best decision that I have ever made in my life (and academically, I’m kicking the asses of most students who came here as freshmen).</p>
<p>^^not to brag or anything…</p>
<p>Re: #18</p>
<p>The OP’s postings imply being out of state, so even community college in California would require higher out of state tuition, plus living expenses. The OP’s most affordable choices were likely in his/her home state (state university or community college) or Alabama (big merit scholarships for GPA and test scores).</p>