<p>UCB v. UCLA
the SIR is due this friday may1 and i still cannot decide where i want to go!!
i'm currently undecided on my major.
please help me decide which is the better choice!</p>
<p>my questions:
-i live in the bay area, so it's really convenient when coming back home to cal! should this be a deciding factor?
-i always had the idea that cal is a more prestigious/recognized school than UCLA.. is that true to some extent? and will being a berkeley graduate have more benefits than being a UCLA graduate, whether or not i go to grad school?
-i didn't really like the campus environment when i went to berkeley.. whereas i loved the UCLA campus and location. should i base my decision on my first impression??
-i've heard so much about the competitive atmosphere at UCB which frankly scares me. Cal students, what do you think about this?? and are the UCLA students just as competitve?</p>
<p>It seems like you already have answered your question of where to go. If you didn’t like the atmosphere at Berkeley and don’t like the fact that its super competitive then don’t go there. That’s one of the reasons I am choosing UCLA over Berkeley (Im a transfer student so i still haven’t heard from Berkeley yet). If you don’t feel comfortable at Berkeley spending 4 years there is gonna be tough!<br>
Reputation wise they are the same in my opinion, They are two of the best schools in the country. There isn’t a lot that separates the two of them.</p>
<p>Berkeley is considerably more prestigious/recognized than UCLA. But UCLA is considerably just more awesome than Berkeley.</p>
<p>So you either go for a potentially superior education and degree and more opportunities upon graduation from Berkeley and suffer through the “blah” campus it has…
Or you go to UCLA that’s at the very bottom of the page on US NEws college rankings but have a potentially better “college experience.”</p>
<p>Academics vs. Comfort/Fun/Etc.</p>
<p>Of course if you go to UCLA and do very well then the difference in prestige or w.e. really loses it’s significance. </p>
<p>*The above is only an opinion and I do not claim it to be fact. =P</p>
<p>WOW - honestly?!?!?!?!? 21 vs 25? UCLA may be at the very bottom of the “Top 25” but Berkeley is not THAT much higher. If you’re comparing a top private to either of these 2 UC’s and money is not an issue, there’s a considerable difference but the difference between Berkeley and UCLA is minuscule in comparison</p>
<p>^ No it’s not that much higher. But it is simply more revered than UCLA.
This is because Cal is ranked a lot higher in graduate and doctorate programs.
Cal isn’t much higher in undergrad…that’s true. But because it’s significantly higher ranked in graduate levels, it has a considerably better name than UCLA.
Plus Cal’s major sports rival is Stanford =P</p>
<p>that does not matter for undergrads who make up 99% of posters who are seeking advice on CC</p>
<p>
key word = sports. unless you talk to some blind neurotic jealous berkeley homer, stanford has the “superior education and degree” that you mistakenly think is present between cal and ucla</p>
<p>^
You did not comprehend my post.
“…because Cal is ranked a lot higher in graduate and doctorate programs.”
You just pulled a random line from my post and made a rebuttal.</p>
<p>In context I meant that, OVERALL, Berkeley is more revered, has a better academic name than UCLA “BECAUSE” it’s graduate programs are SIGNIFICANTLY higher ranked than UCLA’s. Yes, Cal’s undergrad is only 4 places higher in rank, but considering Cal as a WHOLE, it is more prestigious to graduate from Cal than UCLA.</p>
<p>And evidently you missed the “=P” at the end of my remark about stanford being Cal’s major sports rival. That “=P” suggests I’m joking around, or at least not completely serious.</p>
<p>^ and I’m saying your reasoning is complete BS. again, almost everyone seeking advice on CC are asking about the undergraduate level so talking about the graduate school is irrelevant. uwash has an amazing med school but its undergrad is not on par with its med school reputation. by your reasoning uwash should be more revered than people give it credit for but its not because its med program is good but med school =/= undergraduate.</p>
<p>i’m in the same situation. undecided between cal & ucla. i live in LA so it would be nice to be home, but also nice to go somewhere new. decisions, decisions…</p>
<p>Cal is a lot more recognized internationally. Competition comes from student body not the university. ucla will also be very competitive. Don’t worry about Cal being cut-throat. You will do equally fine or equally bad both in Cal or UCLA. For what it is worth UCLA slipped its News week ranking. It is now below UCSD engg! You are more likely to get into top tier grad schools (like MIT, Stanford) if you went to Cal. For a job after undergrad within California, you will be fine either way. </p>
<p>Those are my inputs. I will go to Cal. But you still have to decide for yourself! sorry.</p>
<p>Prestige only goes so far. You can go to Cal and get all the prestige you perceive, but GPA is much more important for grad school. The disparity between Cal and UCLA isn’t that large. </p>
<p>FYI, I picked UCLA because I would enjoy my life better here, medical school for volunteer/research, and the general feel of the campus fit me better.</p>
<p>Ah, the “UCLA vs. Cal” arguments. Let’s go through the usual ones I see:</p>
<ol>
<li> Berkeley is more prestigous</li>
<li> UCLA has a better environment</li>
<li> Berkeley is better if you want a “top grad school”</li>
<li> Berkeley has a bajillion top 10 departments</li>
<li> UCLA has its own med school</li>
<li> If I go to UCLA/Berkeley, I’ll get a better job</li>
</ol>
<p>And maybe a few others I don’t remember at the moment.</p>
<p>Let me offer my perspective as a guy who graduated from UCLA (got into Cal) and has experience working. The reality? Nobody really gives a hoot. With the exception of a few employers, most of whom are the now defunct i-banks, UCLA and Cal attract the same people at job fairs. UCLA and Cal both do a good job of placing undergrads in top graduate programs. UCLA and Cal both have great social opportunities and are in fantastic locations.</p>
<p>In reality, Cal IS more prestigous, but few will ever care. Unless you’re here or on one of the other similar forums, few (if any) people will take a Cal grad over a UCLA grad without question. You are in a generally fluid tier of schools in the 15 to 25 range where most of the schools are roughly similar in terms of post-grad opportunities.</p>
<p>Go to the campus that you will be happiest at for four years. The rest will fall into place.</p>
<p>I agree with you UCLAri and Jinobi and username-deleted.</p>
<p>^And my reasoning is not complete BS geewowzers.
You are still not understanding what I’m saying.
The average person does not differentiate the rankings of different departments/schools within an educational institution. For example. Stanford is extremely prestigious. Who would get more oohs-and-ahhhs: A Stanford med school grad, or a WashU med school grad? Stanford grad hands down. But WashU’s med school is ranked higher. So in the real world, people do not care that WashU’s med program is higher, they just know Stanford OVERALL is much more prestigious and better than WashU. Therefore someone looking to graduate with prestige would choose Stanford med school over WashU even though WashU is technically ranked higher. (Yes I realize that WashU’s med ranking is only a few above Stanford’s but it serves my point nonetheless.)</p>
<p>I have applied the same reasoning to our little debate about UCLA and Berkeley.
Yes, you could claim Cal’s undergrad program (alone) is negligibly higher ranked than UCLAs. But Because Cal, overall, including grad programs, is simply more respected and prestigious, then the difference of prestige is much greater than a 21 to 25 difference in undergrad rankings by US News. </p>
<p>I agree, both have undergrad programs that are not very far apart academically…but Cal is considerably (not negligibly) more prestigious than UCLA. All i’m arguing here is prestige/respect.
However, as the above posters have made clear, the difference in prestige (though in my opinion a more than negligible difference) will not likely affect your job prospects or grad school prospects so long as you do well.
I know someone who grad’d from Pacific Union College (unheard of private christian school) and went on to Harvard Law… rare yes, but it’s possible, you just gotta do well wherever you are.</p>
<p>EDIT: I found a better example than my Stanford/WashU one.</p>
<p>Who would get more ooohs and ahhhhs, a Harvard engineering grad or a Georgia Institute of Technology grad? HARVARD, duh! But Georgia’s engineering program is ranked significantly higher than Harvard’s (Georgie: 4, Harvard: 18)! Harvard is just way more prestigious because overall it’s a better school. If I were accepted into Georgia and Harvard for engineering I’d go with Harvard, it’s just got a way better name despite the fact that Georgia has a better engineering program.
In this case the prestige difference is astronomical. And the perceived prestige of Harvard vs. GIT will likely bring the Harvard engineering grad more/better opportunities than a GIT grad with similar stats.
(And sorry for going on with this…im just a born debater)</p>
<p>WashU and Stanford are at the top in terms of rankings where the difference will not matter so much. Unless you live in a cave, WashU’s medical school will draw as much, if not more, ooh’s and ahh’s than Stanford medical. Will a medical school’s reputation matter for a student asking for undergraduate advice? No. Not many will decide to go to the Univ of Wash for their undergrad if they have better options, but they’ll actually consider attending their nonundergrad medical school if they are lucky enough to get in</p>
<p>Cal’s “undergrad reputation” is blown out of proportions on this board. The difference in undergrad between cal and ucla is very minuscule unless you’re talking to a bunch of northern californians. its a california public school mandated to take in primarily california students- if you compare top UC to top private, top private hands down trumps it unless you cannot afford it. if you compare amongst the UCs, the differences narrow down and its like comparing community college A vs community college B and saying because community college B is ranked 1001 compared to rank 999 for college A you’re going to get a boost when trying to transfer to some other college. the delusional “prestige” of an undergraduate degree from cal as compared to ucla will not do anything for you when you apply for say medical school.</p>
<p>It’s a hopeless case. I honestly don’t know how to further explain myself but I’m sure most people will agree with my that Berkeley is definitely more prestigious than UCLA.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with you that the added prestige of going to Berkeley will be practically useless when applying to a grad school (as long as you do well at UCLA).</p>
<p>It honestly feels like you don’t read my posts thoroughly, like you just scan it then throw some half-thought out rebuttal.</p>
<p>Read my second example of GIT and Harvard. I don’t know how to make it any more clear. (GIT has a way better engineering program than Harvard, but anyone would be silly not to choose Harvard over GIT because of its name; in this case utility is a factor)
And again, im not arguing utility or practicality here, Im just arguing prestige. The ONLY point I’m making is that Berkeley is more prestigious than UCLA (in my opinion and the opinions of many others).</p>
<p>And if you compare a private on the level of UCLA (say Georgetown) then a top private trumps it just as easily as it would UCLA…so I don’t know why you mentioned that. And using community colleges as an example is highly incomparable to universities like UCs or any other.</p>
<p>But I’m content to let this discussion die. I have made my point, you have made yours. So whatever.
Have a good day.</p>
<p>yes berkeley’s undergrad is slightly more prestigious than ucla, but im arguing against the rampant idiotic statements that try to blow the slight difference out of proportions</p>
<p>and as long as you do well at either of the two uc’s you’re equally on par when applying to at least med school. doing decent at cal will get trumped by someone who does well at ucla and is no better than someone who does decent at ucla either</p>
<p>I think what nodnarb’s saying is that <b> purely on a prestige level </b>, Cal is higher than UCLA. </p>
<p>However, in my opinion, it is foolhardy to focus on prestige as a factor in your college choice. Like UCLAri and others have said, you just have to perform well to get into grad schools, not go to a top tier undergrad university. Unless you have hubris problems or need affirmation from others, going to a higher prestige school mainly because it has higher prestige is not the way to go.</p>