<p>UCF is trying the political pork route to gain a meteorology program. Trouble is, FSU already has a world-renowned</a> meteorology program and a hurricane</a> research program.</p>
<p>See: Grayson</a> vote traded to get storm center -- OrlandoSentinel.com</p>
<p>If you support FSU I'd urge everyone to contact their senator and either stop this duplication or redirect the funding to FSU.</p>
<p>With all due respect, you are disseminating incorrect information. While I agree that political pork would be used to establish such a center, this is clearly an attempt by Grayson to redirect state funds to his district and not an attempt by UCF to gain a meteorology program. He stated that a possible NOAA facility “could be tied to the University of Central Florida” and in no way stated that it is a UCF project. Simply because a state lobbyist for UCF was delighted that the school was mentioned does not mean it is a ploy by the university to establish a center. Dr. John C. Hitt has been a pivotal figure in developing his university into the academic research institution it is today (with several programs ranked ahead of FSU) and he takes pride in building things up the right way. All universities are different and each offer specialized programs in a wide array of fields. When UCF was founded as Florida Tech back in the day, I doubt their leaders expected their university to be the country’s fifth largest. When FSU was founded as West Florida Seminary, I doubt their leaders expected their university to one day have an endowment of nearly $600 million. The point is that many times we take so much pride in our school that we forget the accomplishment of others and folks tend to discredit other academic institutions while glorifying their own. We live in a world where academia is the stronghold of life’s successes in business. I doubt that in the workplace, when it matters most, the words arched across the top of a piece of paper will be the determining factor of one’s future. What do the President/CEO of Boeing International, Founder/CFO of Tijuana Flats, President/CEO of Denny’s Corporation, Vice-President of Google, Inc., President/COO of Busch Entertainment Corporation, COO of the Orlando Magic, President/CEO of Ruth’s Chris Steak House, President/CEO Ericsson, Founder/President/CEO/Director of Raymond James Bank, President of Darden Restaurants, Vice-President of Darden Restaurants, and President of Worldwide Operations of Walt Disney Park and Resorts have in common? They are all graduates of little, wannabe, not as good as FSU or UF, Disney-based UCF.</p>
<p>Sorry to vent on you parent2noles but it was just something that’d been on my mind for a while. Rest assured it is not just you.</p>
<p>No problem. I do disagree with UCF’s role in the affair, however as newspaper reports show quotes from UCF officials who think such an expenditure would be just grand:
Politicians just don’t get up out of bed one day and say “Hey, I need $50M for hurricane research at my local university”. They have to be fed information and carefully coached so they don’t sound foolish. Grayson is deceiving no one and I think my analysis is dead-on.</p>
<p>I see this as more “trough” political funding for universities, which does not build the best public universities. We need to focus resources and support, with ever-diminishing state dollars (as states must balance their budgets, unlike the federal government), proven programs and resist the urge to engage in university mission creep. I understand why a UCF student would feel offended that their alma mater would be so regarded, but there’s only so much money to go around and, well, UCF is way down the list, regardless of how hard President Hitt works to turn his school into a research university. Much of UCF’s growth came when budgets were flush and now I suspect you’ll see UCF shrink, as the growth along mission creep-pork lines was unwarranted and unwise in my opinion (the underfunded UCF med school is an excellent example of this phenomenon). Consider, for example, how the dean of the UF med school, along with USF med officials, now complain that FSU Med is receiving too many of the scarce state med training dollars…and then add the FIU and UCF Med programs to the mix. Everyone suffers, quality is reduced. UCF fans may feel like they have a piece of the pie and are competing with the oldest schools, but what really is the benefit if the dollars are not there when budgets contract? Last hired, first fired comes to mind.</p>
<p>^^ There are going to be inevitable turf wars too between some of the new 4 year colleges that are evolving from the Florida community colleges and present state universities. For example, in Jax, UNF is across the street from Florida State College. What is UNF’s mission? UNF has an undergraduate focus and offers many of the same programs like business, nursing, and education as FSC. Seems like overlap to me. With state money so tight, somebody needs to get a scalpel out and carve these college programs up so the interests of Florida citizens are best served at a bearable cost.</p>
<p>Looks like p2n is worried UCF might steal FSU’s position as the #2 state university.</p>
<p>IGator is there anything you do other than follow p2n around and find ways to call out FSU as inferior to UF? Really?</p>
<p>You’re too focused on what other people think. Screw rankings. Form your own opinions. FSU is #1 in my eyes.</p>
<p>As a student who has attended the top three universities in Florida (in my opinion), I don’t like to pick favorites as to which one I attach myself to. With that said, feel free to refer to me as GradBoy rather than a UCF student (you’d be very surprised to know my other two). I’m sorry that I came across as offended when my intention was to inform a rather biased source. Too often is crucial information skewed by those who find it best to promote their own agenda rather than report the accuracies which are, depending on who you speak to, commonly distorted. Case in point, it is a well-known fact - at least among folks associated with the UCF and FIU medical schools - that both have received full funding by the Florida Legislature, contrary to your statement referring to an “underfunded UCF Med School.” Another common misconception I should bring to light is the manner in which medical schools are approved and established. The decision to create a medical school in a given region is based on that general location’s shortage of physicians and high demand for medical care. Medical schools are not created by university presidents looking to increase the prestige of their institutions. The several med schools in Miami are a testament to that region’s rapidly growing population. Orlando, on the other hand, was the largest metropolitan area in the United States without a medical school. The UCF Med School was long overdue and with the increasing number of retiring baby boomers, the necessity was justifiably filled. </p>
<p>Sometimes it is best to remove our school-colored contact lenses and attempt to provide both intelligent and unbiased conversation, especially on such a place looked upon by so many for future plans.</p>
<p><a href=“http://today.ucf.edu/blog/2009/06/11/john-hitt-and-modesto-maidique-a-courageous-decision-on-med-schools/[/url]”>http://today.ucf.edu/blog/2009/06/11/john-hitt-and-modesto-maidique-a-courageous-decision-on-med-schools/</a></p>
<p>Med schools in Florida are granted due to politics. Why else, in 1956, would anyone want to place the only “state” med school in some backwater like Gainesville rather than Miami, Tampa or Jacksonville?</p>
<p>I think you’re trying to justify UCF pork, GradBoy. You might note that all state med schools, except the FIU and UCF med programs were created by the Legislature, not some other lesser entity.</p>
<p>Legislature created med schools:
UF - 1956
USF - 1965
FSU - 2000</p>
<p>Board of Governors created med schools:
FIU/UCF - 2006</p>
<p>As of May 2009 the funding for UCF Med was in doubt. They consider meeting budget a miracle. They met budget at the expense of other area interests.
See: [Florida</a> Legislature: Lawmakers find money for UCF med school - OrlandoSentinel.com](<a href=“http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-bizkassab-sunrail-medical-schoo050609may06,0,5121153.column]Florida”>http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-bizkassab-sunrail-medical-schoo050609may06,0,5121153.column)</p>
<p>I’ve got to agree with p2n on the UCF hurricane institute. This is pork, pure and simple…that appears to be Grayson’s modus operandi since he’s been elected. The public would better served with FSU getting additional funds…another institute at UCF would be inefficient at the least, and destructive and the worst, as it would end up drawing faculty and researchers away from the established program. Grayson seems to have traded his Cap and Trade vote for this, which is completely unrelated. I don’t believe UCF even <em>has</em> a meteorology program at this point…</p>
<p>Again, I hate to say it, but you are extremely misguided. The Florida Board of Governors does not have the sole power to establish medical schools. The UCF Medical School was established by the Florida Legislature in 2006, contrary to your statement. </p>
<p>I’m glad you provided a wonderful (albeit outdated) source to support your statement. However, as of June of 2009, it was announced that both medical schools at UCF and FIU were fully funded. I apologize if the memo did not make it to Tallahassee.</p>
<p>As far as the “expense of other area interests,” I guess that would depend on your priorities, now, wouldn’t it? If you consider fully funding the UCF and FIU medical schools a true detriment to what could’ve been a state-of-the-art railway system in Central Florida, then it appears we are at two different wavelenghts. The argument from lawmakers and the business lobby was the economic impact the SunRail would have had. The only issue: the UCF College of Medicine and surrounding biomedical cluster (nicknamed the “Medical City”) are bound to have an economic impact to Orlando, Orange County, the Central Florida region, and the state of Florida unlike anything we have seen since the two mouse ears were erected down the road. Billions of dollars will be circulated by the UCF College of Medicine, the Burnham Institute for Medical Research, the MD Anderson Cancer Research Center, the Nemour’s Children’s Hospital, Florida Hospital, and the country’s newest VA Medical Center. All are building new facilities at the campus with the exception of Florida Hospital. Add to this the proposed Lake Nona-built Town Centre and you have a situation in which tax dollars alone will be astronomical. </p>
<p>Again, I’m not here to stake a claim and declare one institution’s dominance over another. I’m simply here to diffuse facts that would otherwise be misconstrued by those not of the utmost interest.</p>
<p>Sources:
[UCF</a> College of Medicine](<a href=“http://www.med.ucf.edu%5DUCF”>http://www.med.ucf.edu)</p>
<p>I looked up some information on job prospects in this field, meteorology, and there doesn’t seem to be a shortage, as a matter of fact says its competitive. So, i agree , why do we need another.</p>
<p>"IGator is there anything you do other than follow p2n around and find ways to call out FSU as inferior to UF? Really?</p>
<p>You’re too focused on what other people think. Screw rankings. Form your own opinions. FSU is #1 in my eyes."</p>
<p>Yeah I really don’t get what his purpose is either. His passive-aggressive ■■■■■■■■ first started out as annoying but he’s pretty much revealed himself to be a bitter little person with little else to do with in his his time. Is his goal to convince everybody that UF is the best in the state? I don’t think he’ll receive contention from most anybody, even on this board. For somebody who is supposedly getting such a superior education, he sure is self-conscious about it.</p>
<p>
I disagree. The Board of Governors [approved</a> the FIU and UCF Colleges of Medicine](<a href=“http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:WjduH7ZaM4sJ:www.flbog.org/documents_meetings/]approved”>http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:WjduH7ZaM4sJ:www.flbog.org/documents_meetings/). The Legislature does not have to fund them. In fact, I see no involvement by the Florida Legislature at all in the laws creating the FIU/UCF schools. For example:</p>
<p>[Florida</a> Statute 1004.384 - UCF Med School](<a href=“http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC384.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%20384#1004.384]Florida”>http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC384.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%20384#1004.384)
[Florida</a> Statute 1004.385 - FIU Med School](<a href=“http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC385.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%20385#1004.385]Florida”>http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC385.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%20385#1004.385)</p>
<p>Now, let’s take a peek at [Florida</a> Statute 1004.41 - UF Medical Programs](<a href=“http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC41.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%2041#1004.41]Florida”>http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC41.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%2041#1004.41)</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>[Florida</a> Statute 1004.42 - FSU College of Medicine](<a href=“http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC42.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%2042#1004.42]Florida”>http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1004/SEC42.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch1004->Section%2042#1004.42) </p>
<p>We can easily see that the Legislature adds all sorts of language which reasonably could be considered Legislative intent. I am not seeing such language for the FIU/UCF statutes, which are products entirely of the Board of Governors. Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide a link to what you mean?</p>
<p>So let’s look again at the question of UCF’s effort to gain a meteorology program by the “pork” process. In glancing at Representative Grayson’s website I find this entry:</p>
<p><a href=“Washington,%20DC”>quote</a> – Congressman Alan Grayson fought for and obtained a commitment for a new National Hurricane Research Center in Orlando today. The $50 million commitment from the leadership in the House of Representatives is one of several reasons why the Congressman supports the American Clean Energy and Security Act.</p>
<p>Congressman Grayson said, “With this one move, Central Florida will become a world leader in 21st century meteorology.”</p>
<p>Congressman Grayson fought hard for the federal funding. Grayson personally spoke with President Barack Obama and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi about his request. During a speech on the floor of the House today, Grayson said, “Damages from hurricanes in terms of human lives, infrastructure, and property, have grown in scope and cost, and it is critical that we continue to make progress in furthering our understanding of the science behind hurricanes. Doing so will ultimately help vulnerable communities in my district, in Florida, and elsewhere in the United States prepare for, and reduce the impacts from, hurricanes.”
[/quote]
See: [June</a> 2009 Archives | Congressman Alan Grayson, Representing the 8th District of Florida](<a href=“http://grayson.house.gov/2009/06/]June”>http://grayson.house.gov/2009/06/)</p>
<p>Then we have the UCF response:
</p>
<p>Of course, maybe you are living in the statement:
See: [Grayson</a> vote traded to get storm center - OrlandoSentinel.com](<a href=“http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-asecgrayson-hurricane-center-062062709jun27,0,3886177.story]Grayson”>http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-asecgrayson-hurricane-center-062062709jun27,0,3886177.story)</p>
<p>If the reference is so indirect to UCF why on earth would one of their lobbyists be excited?</p>
<p>Seems pretty plain and uncomplicated. Its all about UCF and meteorology…except the entire effort would be a duplicate of the [FSU</a> Meteorology Program](<a href=“http://www.met.fsu.edu/]FSU”>http://www.met.fsu.edu/) and the [FSU</a> Center for Ocean-Atmospheric Prediction Studies](<a href=“404 Error - COAPS”>http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/). An unnecessary waste of taxpayer funds, unless the monies go to buttress ongoing work (at FSU, for example) and eliminate the inefficiency of starting a duplicate program elsewhere in Florida.</p>
<p>UCF’s a pretty decent school and it’s definitely on the rise, but it’s not really on the same tier as UF/FSU yet. The better comparison is UCF vs. USF. I really like their engineering, though.</p>
<p>This thread is rather amusing. It looks like I struck a sore spot in this crowd.</p>
<p>I find it quite humorous that you are attempting to classify the medical schools at UCF and FIU in a different category than that of UF, USF, and FSU, although they all must go through the same process to get established. What exactly are you trying to get at by pointing out FSU’s med school had little involvement from the Board of Governors and was more a brainchild of the Florida Legislature? Do you not realize that, by doing so, you are bringing to light the politics involved behind the establishment of FSU’s med school. The fast pace at which the Legislature approved the med school and its supposed mission (to provide healthcare needs to rural and underserved areas) greatly encompasses the characteristics of “pork politics,” as you so like to state. The LCME seemed to have taken notice.</p>
<p>[State:</a> FSU med school not accredited](<a href=“http://www.sptimes.com/2002/02/08/State/FSU_med_school_not_ac.shtml]State:”>http://www.sptimes.com/2002/02/08/State/FSU_med_school_not_ac.shtml)</p>
<p>This individual was kind enough to document the entire process (establishment, accreditation denial, appeal, etc.)</p>
<p>[LCME</a> and Florida State Medical School](<a href=“http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/model/medsch/lcme_and_florida_state.htm]LCME”>http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/model/medsch/lcme_and_florida_state.htm)</p>
<p>On the other hand, the Florida Legislature approved a new medical school for UCF after it had been approved and recommended by the Florida Board of Governors. The LCME has granted the UCF College of Medicine preliminary accreditation and they publicly stated that the college has the potential to be a national model.</p>
<p>[New</a> UCF Med School opens in August - Gainesville Community Blogs](<a href=“http://newsies.gainesville.com/default.asp?item=2390849]New”>http://newsies.gainesville.com/default.asp?item=2390849)</p>
<p>[National</a> Committee Grants UCF College Of Medicine Preliminary Accreditation - Aspect Of Plan For College Has Potential To Be National Model](<a href=“http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/96624.php]National”>http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/96624.php)</p>
<p>In addition to being on a great track, the UCF College of Medicine Dean spearheaded a scholarship fundraising drive to provide full scholarships to the entire charter class. In an unprecedented manner, the local community donated the amount necessary, and then some. The UCF Med School was featured on NBC Nightly News.</p>
<p>[NBC</a> Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast- msnbc.com](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29695061]NBC”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29695061)</p>
<p>Like I said:
</p>
<p>You said they weren’t:
and
</p>
<p>So, I found the authorizing state statutes and other documents to show you maybe you may not want to say someone is:
and
until you go through the material.</p>
<p>Now, it seems you are kind of annoyed, because you show where FSU Med - the first new college of medicine in a generation - had to fire it’s original dean, but nothing on it’s [current</a> national ranking](<a href=“Rankings | Florida State University”>Rankings | Florida State University), which we should note is in harmony with legislative intent. I’m thinking maybe you did this because your allegations were proved false? Further, I’m not seeing any credible third-party rebuttal to my original post about UCF trying to gain a meteorology program through a wasteful pork process, even though you said:
and:
</p>
<p>That doesn’t ring so true, now does it?</p>
<p>“It looks like I struck a sore spot in this crowd.”</p>
<p>IGator you give yourself too much credit. You didn’t do anything outside your daily ■■■■■■■■.</p>
<p>Point 1:</p>
<p>If all med schools in Florida were created from politics (as you so adamantly seem to believe) please give an example as to why you feel the UCF and FIU med schools fall under that category. I can understand if you were referring to FSU’s med school, as it was an FSU alum who spearheaded the project in the legislature with strong opposition from others. Also, I’m interested in seeing how the med schools at USF and UM were derived. </p>
<p>Point 2: </p>
<p>I stand by that. I really don’t see your point here.</p>
<p>Point 3:</p>
<p>Again, I was correcting your blatantly incorrect statement that the Florida Legislature did not establish the UCF and FIU med schools. Don’t see your point here either.</p>
<p>Point 4: </p>
<p>You were incorrect in both occasions and used the statutes to prove there is “more lingo on FSU’s med school” than UCF and FIU. Don’t see how that proved anything other than perhaps FSU’s med school is a few years older.</p>
<p>Point 5:</p>
<p>I hope you realize your “current national ranking” (which is NOT a national ranking but rather an indicator of where the majority of FSU med graduates end up) is nothing to brag about. Family Medicine is the most common destination for med school grads in the Mountain and West regions of the U.S., whereas New England and the East tend to have a more diverse medical experience in other fields besides Family Medicine.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6785958_Entry_of_US_medical_school_graduates_into_family_medicine_residencies_2005-2006_and_3-year_summary[/url]”>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6785958_Entry_of_US_medical_school_graduates_into_family_medicine_residencies_2005-2006_and_3-year_summary</a></p>
<p>Point 6:</p>
<p>You said: “Further, I’m not seeing any credible third-party rebuttal to my original post about UCF trying to gain a meteorology program through a wasteful pork process.”</p>
<p>Your original post was your own biased opinion. The article you provided, in no way, pointed out an attempt by UCF to “gain a meteorology program” but rather an attempt by Grayson to bring one to his district, much to the delight of a UCF lobbyist. How that, in your brain, defines to UCF wanting a meteorology program the “pork-politics” way does nothing but further prove my point that you are skewing information to make it favorable to you instead of providing a link and allowing the readers to formulate their own opinions. </p>
<p>My intention was not to offend anyone, as I see you are getting quite defensive. Hopefully the others reading this thread will formulate their own opinions based on what we have discussed.</p>
<p>^yeah I agree this is a Grayson issue…the connection with UCF is not really obvious. But it looks like we all agree, at least, that this is pork and the program should stay at FSU.</p>