I’ve been planning on applying ED1 to UChicago for a while now. I like a lot of things about the school, from the housing system and the discussion based core to the free transportation provided around Chicago. However, as I’ve started to read about the school’s culture, I’ve started to question if it’s really the right school for me. The whole “where fun goes to die” thing is very intimidating to me, as I’m famously bad under pressure. I’ve taken a “rigorous” course load throughout high school (APs and honors whenever they’re available + a co-curricular program where I simultaneously got a high school education in Japanese) but I have to admit that I mostly just got by on natural talent, not study skills.
I’m also concerned about the social aspect of UChicago. I got one of those handy little guidebooks from the school in the mail a few weeks ago, and reading through the “A Day in the Life” sections has left me with the impression that all students ever do there is study, go to class, or talk about class. While I’m all for having intellectual discussions outside of class, I don’t want to go to a place where people can’t take off their academic hats and have some lighthearted fun.
I know it’s a little late in the game to start raising these concerns, but I think that they’re valid ones. I know I shouldn’t ED if I’m not completely sure that it’s the right place for me, but I doubt I have a strong chance applying EA or RD. (For context, I have a 4.0 GPA/1560 SAT/rigorous course load with some leadership positions and average extracurriculars.) I don’t want to pass up the opportunity to go to UChicago just because I was scared.
So what I wanted to ask is: is UChicago really that difficult? What’s the social scene really like there? And are there any other schools with a similar academically curious vibe that won’t be so stressful?
My son had the exact same concerns as you when applying. He didn’t want to go to school with people that were only concerned about academics 24/7.
He’s a first year now and absolutely loves it. He says there are more things to do socially than he has time for. He has met a great group of guys already. When asked about “where fun goes to die” which he was afraid of and obsessed over too, he said that’s just ridiculous now. He’s a social and athletic kid and he’s met similar friends. There is nothing he doesn’t like about the college now, except the fear of winter. Within 5r limitations of the COVID restrictions, he’s spent time exploring, working out, lunches or dinners out, etc.
As for academic stress, he doesn’t feel it and is doing very well in his classes (perhaps premature pre midterms no doubt). He went to a college prep high school and feels it’s maybe slightly more intense than that, it will be true of any top 10 or 20 college.
I wouldn’t let that old t shirt saying stop you based on what he says. Things have definitely changed.
Chicago is intense. That doesn’t mean that everyone that goes there is a grind, or competitive. But it has a different vibe than SMU or U Albany or a school with a (mostly earned) more aggressive party feel.
If you like the intellectual engagement but want to evaluate something a little less intense, look at Reed, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Georgetown, Wesleyan, Holy Cross, Brown, Amherst, Cornell. You may find the niche you are looking for- serious students, but also serious about politics, music, (or both- Lin-Manual Miranda went to Wesleyan), etc.
Re: Comment #1, If a first year at UChicago has found more things to do socially than he has time for - during this, The Year of The Plague and Great Social Isolation, no less! - then, OP, you will probably be OK when it’s your turn.
Given what you’ve posted, you should be able to handle the coursework. The first quarter is always an adjustment as you learn to optimize your study time. But pretty much everyone coming in got through high school mostly on natural talent so you will be far from alone. So don’t worry about that.
What you might do now is figure out exactly what it is that you want from college. Do you want to prioritize your academic experience, or are other activities of equal or greater importance? UChicago students are required to take their academic work seriously. But this emphasis doesn’t mean there is an exclusive focus on academics. Your house, your friends, your EC’s actually SUPPORT a “life of the mind” rather than substitute for it. The College strongly encourages all to take advantage.
The academic culture is intense relative to many other peer schools. Wouldn’t worry about “where fun comes to die” because that’s a holdover from a few decades ago. The work isn’t less challenging these days but students have more options - both in Core and in major - to choose a course of study that is right for them. Check out the curriculum. If it excites you, then UChicago might be a good fit. If it sounds like too much work, then different story. http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/thecurriculum/
By the way, you might look into whether your co-curricular program in Japanese will enable you to pass out of the language requirement.
Another poster labeled Swarthmore College as “less intense” than the University of Chicago. I do not agree with that characterization.
If you have a 1560 SAT and a 4.0 GPA. then your fear must stem from concern about having to do the assigned work since in high school you “…got by on natural talent, not study skills.”
Either you are ready & willing to do the work or you are not. If not, look elsewhere.
Columbia would be the most similar, as it’s most widely known for its own Core curriculum, which is even more rigid than UChicago (which does give you some choice IIRC.)
I disagree with @blossom about Brown being similar to UChicago, as they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to curricular rigidity, and appeal to very different types of people. While Brown’s definitely rigorous, its rigor comes more from choosing courses that you enjoy rather than the CORE’s ideology of a standard curriculum no matter your discipline.
My son had the same fears, however, after visiting the school and getting to know some students, he has decided to apply ED. He is an athlete and very social, so it was important for him to feel comfortable with the social climate. Many of the old stereotypes about the school are long gone.
As stated above, where fun comes to die is not what it once was. My son, now a 3rd year is a three season athlete, president of a pretty active club, majoring in Econ and Philosophy while maintaining a 3.9. He had the option of staying home this quarter and chose to go back to take his classes remotely. It is not a place for slackers, you won’t get an A just for showing up, but it isn’t as bad as you may fear.
Now your original question for similar schools. I’m a little more liberal than most on this subject. You can make your experience and if you like the UChicago experience, make it where ever you end up. That is an easy thing to say and a tough one to do. I’ll try to relate a story from my first year working on my Masters degree. I kind of goofed off for my undergrad, didn’t really study too hard nor push my self. When I was accepted to graduate school I really wanted to prove to myself that I could get good grades. I really pushed myself that first semester and ended up with a 4.0 for the first time ever (HS, JH, elementary school, pre-school, and undergrad). I was pumped, excited and felt super good about my accomplishment until I got to school the second semester and found out some others also got a 4.0 who I didn’t feel worked for it at all. I saw their work, their presentations, their party attitude and was really upset. I was so upset that I made an appointment with my advisor to complain. She told me something that really stood out to me. “You should study to learn, not to get a grade. When you try will all your being to learn a subject, the grade will take care of itself.” So, the moral of the story is, no matter where you go push yourself to learn as much as you can about your subject. Every school can be like UChicago if you do that. If you like the Core, but the school you end up at doesn’t have it, take those classes as your electives.
I say this is harder to do than it is to say. What I mean, if you don’t have outside powers pushing you, it is easier to not push yourself. But if you truly love it, you are truly inquisitive, then you can have that experience anywhere, even without going to school.
I agree that there are more curriculum option these days.
Regarding ‘where fun goes to die’…a student I am working with is being recruited by many top schools for their sport. They had a multi-hour zoom with U Chicago coaches and team members (separately).
Current team members consistently reported that they characterize the vibe as ‘where fun goes to die’…multiple team members used that term to describe their lives which are comprised of working out, studying, eating, sleeping. Very little socializing.
Highly sought after recruit turned down Chicago’s offer.
U Chicago is a fit school to be sure, IME kids get it (as described in the above post), or don’t.
That sounds like most athletes playing college sports, unless you really love the sport it becomes a job and you really don’t have any fun because it takes up all your time. I had this conversation with my middle daugher, recruited for field hockey. I asked if she loved it enough to play in college, nope, enough said.
I understand your point, OTOH many Clemson football players (just to take one example) feel like they have fun, at least occasionally. As does my D3 LAC attending D19.
To be clear, “where fun comes to die” was coined at a time when the College had very little in the way of social clubs or EC’s. College enrollment was less than half of what it is currently. There was no Ratner, no Logan, no RSO’s, no well developed athletic program, and the food sucked. Dorms were satellites scattered all over Hyde Park. U-Go didn’t exist, nor did UPass. And Hyde Park was significantly less safe, more run down, and less tony than it is today. And the Core took up 50% of your time in college. Much has changed over the decades. Why, then, does the motto stick? Because it’s so damn good, that’s why. The students themselves are even responsible, in part, for keeping the image alive, despite yield, freshman retention and four-year grad rates that place UChicago at or very near the top of the heap. By the way, I’d recommend looking at those stats because they paint an accurate picture of what the place is REALLY like.
There are at least 3 posters on here whose kids have opposite views, and they are currently recruited athletes at UChicago. That’s first hand information and not some generalization made by a kid that seems insecure.
Where did they end up?
What sport was this?
Athletes learn how to schedule given the time demands, which are worse at the D1 level.
If this recruit was good enough to be recruited, they would be committed to their sport and enjoy it. My nephews were often doing 3x / day workouts at Dartmouth. At Stanford, back in the day, going to bed early for athletes was the norm as was 2x a day workouts. Missing weekends to travel and compete. The “social” life though is enhanced and replaced within the team. Everyone complained at times because it is a lot of work and requires sacrifices in other areas but none would trade the experience.
What you have said though is contrary to what my child has heard from tens of UChicago athletes.
Yes, you can go to lesser academic and lesser athletic programs and find less overall rigor. Most enjoy these challenges.
“Current team members consistently reported that they characterize the vibe as ‘where fun goes to die’…multiple team members used that term to describe their lives which are comprised of working out, studying, eating, sleeping. Very little socializing.”
Not been my son’s experience at all. He socializes with his team, with his EC, and a couple other small groups. It isn’t a priority, and he doesn’t make sure he has a binger every weekend, but definitely does more than eat, drink, study, practice, sleep.
I am glad your son is having a good experience, many UChicago students do.
My point of sharing the recent experience of one of the seniors I am counseling is that some current students are using the term ‘where fun goes to die’ with prospective students.
I am heartened to hear that current U of C students are still using that old trope: it is a pithy way of saying something true, even if overstated, about the place, though maybe not quite in the way and for the reason that this prospective student-athlete interpreted it - as a solemn assertion of doom and gloom.
To those in the know it is famously self-deprecatory if not outright ironic, and it carries a note of pride. When spoken to outsiders and prospects it is a sort of test: If you take it literally and are put off by it, then you likely don’t belong here. You are showing that you think it is saying no more than that this place is a circle of hell.
In the way of all gnomic utterances, this little saying has a secret meaning, one revealed only to the elect: that fun here is not quite what it is elsewhere. “Fun” is really too trivial a word to describe the way things are here. We need to define our terms and have a good long talk about it all, but first we need to consider what Aristotle, Spinoza and Nietzsche had to say on the subject of the good life.
Parsing the phrase correctly is like recognizing a Masonic handshake, a demonstration that you are in the tribe or have the right stuff to join it. Thus I agree with @Mwfan1921 that you have to “get” that about the school, and if you don’t get it, best avoid it.
Go Frogs!