UChicago or UIUC????

<p>I've decided that right now I want to become a lawyer and go to Law School. However, I wanted to ask for you guy's opinions, which school University of Chicago or University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign will get me into a better school. UChicago is known for being one of the toughest schools in the country and my GPA will surely be lower than at UIUC. Both are ranked well and considered great schools here in Illinois (I want to work in Chicago after Law School). Both have good Law Schools (UIUC is one of the fastest growing in the nation and is now top 25). I would ideally like to go the UChicago's Law School but I know going there for my undergraduate won't really help. Oh and there is no "Pre-Law" pre-professional program at Chicago. Champaign has one though.</p>

<p>Any feedback would be great, thanks.</p>

<p>If it's your GPA you're worried about, i wouldn't be too concerned about going to chicago. the difficulty of the school is overrated by graduates who brag about what a hard time they had here. however, most law schools will be more accepting of a less-than-perfect gpa at chicago than they would at other schools, especially uiuc. at both the law and undergrad level, they're both good schools, but uiuc has nothing on chicago. chicago law school is one of the hardest law schools to get into in the country, if not the hardest.</p>

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the difficulty of the school is overrated by graduates who brag about what a hard time they had here.

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<p>No, it is not. I saw the GPAs of students of a certain major at Chicago (with their names concealed, of course), and they were not for the faint of heart.</p>

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however, most law schools will be more accepting of a less-than-perfect gpa at chicago

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<p>Not necessarily; if they do, anyways, it will not be by much.</p>

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chicago law school is one of the hardest law schools to get into in the country, if not the hardest

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<p>Well, it cannot be the hardest since you have... geez... Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, and NYU. We cannot forget those, can we?</p>

<p>Is Illinois a good Law School? The rankings that I've seen have it in the 20-26 range in the rank of Law Schools. It recieved some award last year for biggest improvement in one year. I don't know, UChicago will certainly be a much harder school but I don't know if the higher level of prestige is worth it. </p>

<p>Any help?</p>

<p>EDIT: I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here. Is Illinois a good undergrad school too? Here (in Illinois) it has an incredible level of prestige but I don't know if that translates into a good school.</p>

<p>What?! A thread mentioning the U of C with nspeds bashing it? <em>gasp</em></p>

<p>Soul: Come to Chicago if you get in - it's an amazing school that is difficult, but if you're prepared to actually work, go for it. We have an excellent pre-law advisor and I assure you that we are a well respected school in the eyes of law adcoms. And you're right: Chicago Law is "one of the hardest" to get into - don't let the resident bitter prestige whore get you down.</p>

<p>Univ. of Chicago and UIUC are both great universities. However, if you got into both and had to pick, you should go to Chicago, since it is far more prestigious and will likely improve your chances of getting into a top law school. Also, attending Chicago for undergrad might improve your chances of getting into their law school.</p>

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And you're right: Chicago Law is "one of the hardest" to get into - don't let the resident bitter prestige whore get you down.

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<p>It is definitely one of the hardest to get into, but it is surely not the hardest to get into. Do not let the person who cannot read get you down.</p>

<p>Another example of the fine UChicago education [rolleyes]</p>

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Well, it cannot be the hardest since you have... geez... Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, and NYU. We cannot forget those, can we?

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<p>I'm here at UChicago and rocking it - am I getting a 4.0? Probably not. Am I getting all Bs and a C? Hell no. This "fine UChicago education" is great.</p>

<p>[edited for courtesy / Mod Amistad]</p>

<p>getting back to the op, I would recommend going to a school that you find challenging and exciting, where you will work hard, and rest assured that there is (at least some) general knowledge concerning the difficulty of Chicago in terms of GPA. However, I wouldn't make the choice solely based on your idea now that you want to go to law school....visit all the schools you're interested in and make sure you go to a place where you'd be comfortable spending four years, not just somewhere that you think will suit you well if you decide to attend law school in the future.</p>

<p>I hate to bust your " Chicago GPA is so low bubble" , but grade inflation is rampant there. </p>

<p><a href="http://gradeinflation.com/chicago.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://gradeinflation.com/chicago.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Both are very good and well-respected colleges. UChicago, however, is the "Harvard" of the midwest and gives one a better chance for high ranked law schools. Nevertheless, having high GPA is only part of the equation, and at most law schools LSAT score is weighed significantly higher than GPA. "Pre-law" is actually meaningless for admission to law school and thus the lack of a pre-law program should not be a factor considered. Attending UChicago as an undergraduate does not hurt you for admission to its law school (it neither hurts nor helps in comparison to coming from another prestigious university) As an Illinois resident, you will pay a lot less to go to UIUC, which many would consider a very important factor to consider. In other words, you cannot really make a wrong choice but which one to make really boils down to which one you want to attend and can afford.</p>

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What?! A thread mentioning the U of C with nspeds bashing it?

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<p>How is he bashing it? He just supported the fact that Chicago students have lower GPAs in general by his previous post...meaning the school is, in fact, difficult.</p>

<p>As for Chicago's grade deflation/inflation, aren't we talking about the school where no one has ever graduated with a 4.0? Or is that just a myth?</p>

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I'm here at UChicago and rocking it - am I getting a 4.0? Probably not. Am I getting all Bs and a C? Hell no. This "fine UChicago education" is great.

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here we go with another of those extreme descriptions that doesn't really say anything. according to your statement you can have somewhere between let's say a 2.5 and a 4.0. so i don't see any connection between your two sentences. </p>

<p>this is the same as when people say "you shouldn't take underwater basketweaving but you don't have to be a rhodes scholar either" or "you don't want to sit on you parents' couch for a year but you don't have to work at a top ibanking firm either" which effectively describes the bottom few and top few percent of types anyway. also that inflation page only shows that it has risen from before and doesn't of course take into account the quality of students then or now or compared to other schools, all of which are vital.</p>

<p>My god people, let me spell it out for you: U-chicago grades EASIER than UIUC. If you go to Chicago, statistically speaking, you will graduate with a HIGHER GPA. Here is the PROOF, let's put urban legends aside and look at numbers here:</p>

<p>Average Chicago GPA: 3.26 (1999)</p>

<p><a href="http://gradeinflation.com/chicago.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://gradeinflation.com/chicago.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Average Illinois GPA: 3.12 (1999)</p>

<p><a href="http://gradeinflation.com/illinois.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://gradeinflation.com/illinois.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Well, but you'd have to control for student quality. One is unlikely to be the same caliber of student relative to the mean at both schools.</p>

<p>yeah, I'd buy that argument if and only if the GPS's weren't trending up at the elite universities, but they are. In 50 years, Dartmouth's GPA went from a 2.2 to a 3.4.</p>

<p>The Universitiy of Chicago's GPA went from 2.5 to 3.26 from 1965 to 1999.</p>

<p>Duke went from a 2.79 to a 3.27 from 1969 to 1999.</p>

<p>This is a result of grade inflation, not that the elite students are so much smarter than they were 30 years ago. </p>

<p>All data was taken from here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.gradeinflation.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.gradeinflation.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You're clearly correct that grade inflation is rising.</p>

<p>If Chicago grades are rising relative to Urbana's even while the two of them maintain the same relative student quality, then I'd concede the point, since that would show that inflation was the only reason for the higher GPA at Chicago.</p>

<p>In the absence of the data however (since you'd have to control for relative student quality), the OP ought probably to be most concerned about a point estimate. If Chicago's mean is .14 points higher*, but he'd be below the mean instead of above it, then I think my argument about controlling for student quality stands.</p>

<p>*Actually, a difference of .14 strikes me as of only moderate importance and easily explained by, for example, Chicago's absence of an engineering school. In any case, however, the number is important in that Chicago's not a lot lower than Urbana.</p>

<p>tom that is not even close to proof. you have neglected student quality. by your reasoning and using that site Eastern Oregon (3.13) is "harder" than University of Chicago (3.26).</p>

<p>also, if you defining grade inflation as simply a rise in the average gpa, then a rise in average gpa is not a "result" of grade inflation.</p>

<p>Yes it is proof. Don't compare BETWEEN schools, rather trends from the SAME school. Study the data on <a href="http://www.gradeinflation.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.gradeinflation.com&lt;/a> and look at the trend of the Ivy league schools- the GPA has risen in the past 5,10 and 15 years WAY out of wack with SAT scores of entering students. Remember, you have to take todays SAT scores and subtract 80 points to convert to pre 1995 scores. Dartmouth students today aren't smarter than they were 15 years ago, yet the GPA raises every year. The same is true of most schools. To adress your last comment, grade inflation, I feel is a result of an entitlement mentality that is engrained into todays students, coupled with parental expectations as they foot the tuition bill and the desire for universities to maintain reputation by placing a high percentage of students into grad or professional schools. You can s[in any way you want, but the numbers are all provided in the link. </p>

<p>To the OP-
Chicago GPA's are higher than UIUC GPA's. If you want to maximize your chances of a high GPA, attend Chicago over UIUC.</p>

<p>Tom - </p>

<p>I don't understand your argument. Why on earth would you compare a time series to discuss whether the OP should attend a different school in the present time?</p>

<p>Grade inflation is clearly happening. This is unarguable. But you are trying to decide between two different schools. Just because one of them has a higher average GPA does not mean that any given student is likelier to get a high GPA from that school.</p>