UChicago vs University of Michigan

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hey guys! I have a really tough decision to make :/ I've been researching these colleges and the programs I would enroll in there however I was wondering if cc could offer a new perspective or train of thought.</p>

<p>I was accepted EA to the University of Chicago and the University of Michigan and I have no idea which one to chose.</p>

<p>I'll tell you my though processes on the traditional reasons somebody picks a school:</p>

<p>Location:
Chicago- Hyde park doesn't bother me at all so please don't mention how it is a "scary" neighborhood. I've been to campus and it feels quite safe. UChicago is absolutely gorgeous and I love the close proximity to Chicago.
Michigan- I'm instate for UoM and so family would be close, I love Ann Arbor and I love the integration the campus and Ann Arbor share.</p>

<p>Price: (This includes all personal expenses, food, room, books, tuition, transportation)
Chicago- Let's just say that I will PROBABLY (estimated) be going to Chicago for 10,000/year out of my pocket. The other 50k+ is covered in grants and scholarships.
Michigan- Assume for reasons I don't really want to go into that the cost of Michigan would be about 4,000/year out of my pocket.</p>

<p>Academic Goals:
I plan to follow the pre-med track for eventual matriculation to a medical school. At UoM I would major in neuroscience, at UChicago I would major in either biochem, chem, or bio w/spec in neuro, and/or get a minor in computational neuroscience. I plan on participating in undergraduate research as early as my freshman year.</p>

<p>Chicago- I know that they don't have a medical school matriculation rate as high as their peers however I think that this is changing? I think Chicago will definitely provide more competition and be harder grade wise however I am a very strategic person and I've heard that really if you pick your classes right it can be not bad at all. Also Chicago seemingly has more prestige than Michigan. Normally this wouldn't phase me I'm only looking at it as a bonus because of how it potentially could affect medical school. Chicago also has the core. I was a little dubious of it at first but after learning about how flexible it actually is, I am sort of looking forward to it. I say flexible not because I think it is optional but because i know you have a lot of different course combinations/sequences that will complete it.</p>

<p>Michigan- They invited me into their honors college (have yet to apply) and I don't see a reason that I won't get in so assume I can go there. They have good research programs and stuff.</p>

<p>Social:
Chicago- I've heard from outside people that it is where "fun goes to die". People that go there now tell me this is not true at all (however they told me to make sure I go to Max P hall). I want to spend the night with a student there and go to admitted student days etc before I make the decision who to believe.
Michigan- Solid social scene. I have been to a few parties there with friends I know and they were fun. I'm a pretty social person, but I definitely don't want to party more than a couple days a week.</p>

<p>So yeah... Other little stuff is that I like the fact that UChicago is so much smaller than Michigan.</p>

<p>If any of you guys could give insight I would greatly appreciate it. I want to know between these two soon so I can send in my deposit! My friends keep saying that I am a fool for not taking UChicago w/ the reduction in price but I don't know!</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

2

<p>Reading your post, it seems like you would be better off and more likely to find courses to boost your GPA at Michigan. </p>

<p>While the student body at UChicago might have changed, the expectations of the professors there haven’t and UChicago is really a great fit for people who care more about the education than the grade. That is the diametrically opposite view that a successful premed like yourself needs to take. </p>

<p>While perhaps you can find a way to ease your way through the Core, I say why bother? Premed is hard enough without adding extra unnecessary weight that could risk the whole enterprise. Why do you need to toil with Plato, Kant and Marx? </p>

<p>Socially, at Michigan you would have Big 10 Football and all that goes with it. I don’t think the prestige will help you with medical school admissions. UChicago has only recently cracked the top echelon of academia in the popular culture (USNews), though it’s always been there in academic circles.</p>

3

<p>You have an enviable choice.
A few thoughts:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Prestige matters very little, if at all, in med school admissions. What seems to matter most (by far) is your GPA and MCAT performance. A significant number of students at the most selective med schools in the country attended colleges that are less prestigious than either Chicago or Michigan. </p></li>
<li><p>I would not assume the honors program and pre-med courses will be easier at Michigan.</p></li>
<li><p>“Where fun goes to die” is a slogan invented by Chicago students in a fit of self-parody. By all accounts, Chicago’s quality of life has improved greatly in recent years. However, I think most college students still would prefer the QOL at Michigan (especially if you consider it a sacrifice to only party a “couple days a week”).</p></li>
<li><p>As for toiling with Plato, Kant and Marx … again, that depends on you. For most Chicago people, the Core is a feature not a bug. If you don’t want that, then by all means avoid the University of Chicago.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>In my opinion this choice should come down to personal fit and how much the extra $6K means to you or your family.</p>

4

<p>You give us a long, moderately accurate, description of the two schools but offer only two reasons to choose one or the other: Cost - Michigan is cheaper. Size - You lean toward Chicago’s smaller environment. That’s not much to go on.</p>

<p>Medical school acceptances are overwhelmingly about GPA and MCAT scores and the prestige differences between UC and UM-Honors are trivial. ClassicRockerDad is right, Chicago has far more grade deflation than most schools. So why swim upstream in a river already filled with rapids? Second, medical school is expensive (I haven’t priced it lately but I’m guessing $70-$90K per year) so anything at all that saves you money has to be taken very seriously.</p>

<p>You seem to be hung up on prestige. It’s easy for your friends to tell you to go to UC but if it makes achieving your ultimate goal that much tougher who’s the one to suffer? </p>

<p>As for “fun”, Michigan and Chicago are on completely different trajectories. Chicago may be “more fun” than it’s been but things haven’t changed that much, at least according to my son’s friends.</p>

<p>If you think you might not go to med school then go to Chicago otherwise Michigan seems to be the more ‘sensible’ choice.</p>

5

<p>Plato, Kant & Marx - Hell of an infield, of course Marx could only move to his left. ;)</p>

6

<p>For Premed I think Michigan would be a better choice.</p>

7

<p>Thanks for all the comments and insightful advice! To be honest the biggest factor for me is, will the University of Chicago or the University of Michigan provide a more “swimmable” (if I may borrow from your comparison) path to Medical School. The difference of 6,000/year is negligible. I mentioned it to dissuade anyone from saying go to Michigan because it is a third the price for in-state students, because for me it isn’t. I’ve desperately tried to find average MCAT scores/GPA for pre-med students coming from these universities but I can’t seem to find this information. I will hazard a guess and say that the GPA for Michigan is going to be higher however the MCAT comparable or slightly higher at Chicago. Again, I’m going to try and get in contact with the advising departments at these universities to try and hash out some actual numbers. </p>

<p>As for partying, I am an extremely social person but I would favor going out with a small group instead of going to a huge party any day. I mentioned a “couple days a week” trying to say that it would be absolutely ridiculous for me to do more than that, not that I was uncomfortable doing any less.</p>

<p>Thirdly, I like the humanities. I like the Core. I definitely see it as a feature and not a bug, however I am also definitely a science person. </p>

<p>What I’ve heard from multiple students at these schools is that as far as research goes. There is more actual research going on at Michigan but the fun research projects are more competitive. From what I’ve heard, research at Chicago is definitely available and one of my friends is working on a project with some medical students. </p>

<p>I think I am leaning more toward Michigan than I was previously, knowing that the prestige between UChicago and UMich-Honors isn’t as large as I had thought is very valuable.</p>

8

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<p>Where is the evidence for this?</p>

<p>According to gradeinflation.com, in 2006 (the most recent year with averages for both schools) the average GPA at Chicago was 10 pts higher than at Michigan. In general, GPAs at selective private schools tend to be higher than at state universities. [Colleges</a> Where the Professors Are Easy Graders | The College Solution](<a href=“http://www.thecollegesolution.com/colleges-where-the-professors-are-easy-graders/]Colleges”>Colleges Where the Professors Are Easy Graders)</p>

9

<p>I would say Michigan dude! Chicago is dead when it comes to college life…sorry to break it to you! Bring up my post plz</p>

10

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<p>I think the real question is how the OP competes with the average UChicago student vs the average Michigan student. Michigan is still 65% in state. The OOS slots are very competitive, but the in-state slots, much less so. He probably knows how he competes with his current classmates who are headed to Ann Arbor. </p>

<p>I’m sure that the OP is well above the average Michigan student, having gotten into the honors program. It’s much harder to say that relative to the UChicago student population. </p>

<p>Premed at UChicago is a very risky road.</p>

11

<p>Definitely Michigan. The price difference of 26k over the span of 4 years would not justify on Chicago’s case specially that there isn’t much in it between them. Save that money for med school.</p>

12

<p>^ RML is a state u fool. $6,000 x 4 = $24,000. He thinks 6x4 =26. </p>

<p>1) Chicago- Let’s just say that I will PROBABLY (estimated) be going to Chicago for 10,000/year out of my pocket.</p>

<p>2) Michigan- Assume for reasons I don’t really want to go into that the cost of Michigan would be about 4,000/year out of my pocket.</p>

<p>Only $24,000 difference go to Chicago.</p>

<p>3)Chicago- I’ve heard from outside people that it is where “fun goes to die” </p>

<p>This is 20 years out of date. It’s history from before you were born.</p>

<p>4) My friends keep saying that I am a fool for not taking UChicago w/ the reduction in price but I don’t know!</p>

<p>They are right!</p>

<p>5) I plan on participating in undergraduate research as early as my freshman year.</p>

<p>If you want to be a errand boy/girl Michigan is the place! If you want more than that go to Chicago.</p>

13

<p>Go to the UChicago forum and look for the most recent pre-med thread. That thread has pretty good info on pre-med at UChicago currently.</p>

<p>The general consensus seems to be that UChicago pre-med is now actually a good and improving experience. In terms of stats, UChicago has a 70-75% accept rate to medical school. To put this in perspective, it trails a couple of its peers marginally (Brown and Dartmouth have around a 80% accept rate), and it’s still significantly behind the market leaders such as Yale, which boasts a 90% accept rate. </p>

<p>So, in contrast to what ClassicRockerDad suggests, there’s nothing out there demonstrating that UChicago pre-med is a “very risky road.” Actually, in the alternative, it seems like a very good place for pre-med, and should be turned down only for a few other, extremely good places for pre-med (like Yale or Brown). </p>

<p>Having said all that (and noting that grade inflation seems to be on the rise at UChicago), it is also of note to reaffirm what others say: undergrad institution matters less than GPA and MCAT. Go to the school where you can maximize those numbers.</p>

<p>I’m a UChicago alum and I loved the experience. Chances are you could receive a great education at UChicago, and, should you want to pursue something other than medicine, UChicago is a great bet. Moreover, Michigan isn’t easy by any means, and the top of the top at both schools (likely the students you’ll be competing with) are comparable. For me, given how you’ve described it, UChicago seems like a good choice. If options at places like Yale or Brown open up, then the conversation could be different.</p>

14

<p>Accept rates are meaningless in this discussion. Most schools only count the number of applicants from those who think that they have a realistic shot. It eliminates those who were already weeded out. </p>

<p>UChicago is a great school. In many respects, I think UChicago is the best school in the country for it’s intellectual life. For kids who would learn material even knowing that it isn’t going to be on the test, there is no substitute. If you want to ultimately get a PhD in just about anything, go to UChicago. If learning is what you want to be doing anyway, go to UChicago. </p>

<p>However, this student needs a very high GPA and I still believe based on my reasoning in my previous post, that it would be more likely to occur at Michigan because he’s already much closer to the top of the class. </p>

<p>It’s not a dis on UChicago. On the contrary, it’s recognition of just how great you have to be to get a med school worthy GPA there. The acceptance rate doesn’t tell you what fraction of students who wanted to be premed when they started get accepted into medical school.</p>

15

<p>They are both great schools. I attended Michigan, and my D has an EA acceptance at Chicago. I say go to accepted students days, and make your decision based on how comfortable you feel with the student body, sitting in on classes, etc. That $24K would be nice to have for med school, though. So if Chicago doesn’t bowl you over compared to Michigan on your visits, be a Wolverine.</p>

16

<p>“If you want to be a errand boy/girl Michigan is the place! If you want more than that go to Chicago.”</p>

<p>Ridiculously simplistic statement. You obviously are clueless about Michigan.</p>

<p>[Undergraduate</a> Research Opportunity Program | University of Michigan](<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/urop/]Undergraduate”>Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program (UROP) | U-M LSA)</p>

17

<p>rhg3rd your comment makes me a little sick. Fair point that it is 24k and not 26k, but in the big scheme of things, I don’t think 2k matters a whole lot. That said, where are your facts supporting Chicago? You seem to have a strong opinion supporting it, but that’s all. What makes you so opposed to Michigan’s research? Don’t try to persuade the OP that Chicago will be a more socially fulfilling scene than Michigan - it is clear that is not true. And unless you can pull some real information showing that Michigan’s research is of low quality, then don’t draw that conclusion.</p>

18

<p>ClassicRockerDad:</p>

<p>You’re reasoning would certainly be sound in my day, where achieving a high GPA at UChicago was quite difficult. Your information, however, could be a bit outdated. At least according to current UChicago pre-meds (see the UChicago forum for the thread on this), they seem remarkably positive about their experience, and the possibility of getting a very good GPA.</p>

<p>Again, what you’re saying (UChicago is a great place for pre-PhD training, but tough on the GPA) held in my day ~15 years ago, but, seems to be dying away today. In the pre-med thread on the UChicago forum, I had the same questions you did (how many kids are weeded out? 70-75% accept rate is not that great, right?), but the current students seem quite positive. They argue that now, the academic challenges are much more a la cart rather than standard fair - you can take classes to boost your GPA, and select whatever academic challenges you want. </p>

<p>The OP should certainly do his/her homework. Talk to as many current students as possible, and ask the pre-med advisers for as much information as possible. This is key. I imagine the story at UChicago, however, is changing.</p>

<p>(Personally, I think UChicago lags behind Brown and Dartmouth a little bit, but could close the gap in ~3-4 years. What actual admissions to UChicago would like like with its application-hungry admissions office in 2016-17, however, I do not know.)</p>

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<p>Med school acceptance rates posted by any school are all inflated, they don’t count people who they didn’t think would get into med school nor people who had to drop out of premed early due to bad GPAs</p>

20

<p>Cue7, I have from a reliable source that it’s not changing as fast as the admissions office would like you to believe. It’s still a brutally rigorous school that would still make any alum proud. </p>

<p>The student body is changing fast, but the faculty and their expectations are the same. Sure it may be POSSIBLE to find easy Core classes to boost your GPA, but that’s like going to a gourmet restaurant and ordering a burger with fries. In other words, you’re not getting what you came for, which is the UChicago education. What’s more valuable, the wine or the label.</p>