UChicago vs UPenn CAS

College Search & Selection
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I’m down to UChicago and UPenn and need to make my decision in the next few days.

Academics/Professional Goals:
If I go to Penn, I’ll likely major in economics (or possibly transfer to SEAS altogether and major in CS) and get a minor in Stats from Wharton. At UChicago, I’d probably major in Econ with Spec in Data Science and take supplemental classes at Booth in finance and strategy. I’m thinking about a career in either data science/machine learning or consulting at one of the big consulting firms like McKinsey. I’m also open to getting a PhD in Econ, Stats, Applied Math, or a similar discipline.

Soft Stuff:
I like a competitive but collaborative environment – UChicago and UPenn seemed to both fit this description from when I visited.
I want to be at a school with students who have similar interests (academic, professional, extracurricular) as mine.
I’m not a huge partier but certainly enjoy going out with good company if I’m not too busy.

Convince me UPenn is better for me than UChicago.

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bump - any input?

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Perhaps the silence is your answer.

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OP wrote: “I like a competitive but collaborative environment…”.

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Chocolate vs Vanilla, pick one.

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If you are admitted to Penn CAS transferring to SEAS may be a challenge, because lots of kids want to do what you have in mind; the same can be said of Wharton. So, if you have to stick with CAS as the worst case (but likely) scenario, would it affect your choosing between Penn and Chicago?

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@jzducol

I’m leaning slightly toward UChicago just because of the fact I’ll need to transfer and the fact that it’s 2-3k less expensive per year than UPenn. I also get the vibe that CAS students dont get as much love from top companies as Wharton does, whereas at UChicago everybody coming in is on the same footing.

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^If you are counting on transferring to Wharton or SEAS then the choice is clear. UChicago has arguably one of the best econ undergrad programs with lots of faculty support and the best finance major at Booth with most Nobel laureates. If you want flexibility in majors and best professors with great access in finance/econ, UChicago seems to fit the bill better.

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“I like a competitive but collaborative environment” … what does this mean?

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*Sorry, I meant competitive but not cutthroat.

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In DD’s experience, Chicago is more of a collaborative than a competitive environment. Your mileage may vary.

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@slashermaster1920 - I think you should go ask 10 random people in your community what is better, UPenn or UChicago. The vast majority are going to ask if you got in-state tuition at UChicago and a good number are going to ask about the football team at Penn State. In all seriousness, you can’t go wrong here but Penn has a “better” brand / higher prestige on the coasts (West and East), especially in business / finance circles and medicine / sciences. Rankings shift up and down but Penn is an ivy league school that will always be in demand. UChicago was a “safety” school for all of the ivy league schools (minus Cornell) about 10 years ago, when its acceptance rate was north of 40%. At that time, its yield was less than 40%, freshman retention rate was less than 94% and its ranking was around 14-15. To say it was a back-up option for the tippy top schools would be an understatement. While most employers will think highly of UChicago, most employers will be 10-20 years older than you and will still have their dated opinion of UChicago. If you are after prestige and the best “exit” opportunities for business (finance, consulting, etc.), Penn is a safer choice. Just look at the career services reports for results for CAS and Wharton and you’ll see that CAS grads do exceptionally well. If you are looking to be in a PhD program down the road, UChicago may be the better option. But, going to Penn will not close any doors for you. I also think Penn will provide a more “balanced” undergraduate experience.

2 Likes
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I’d pick Penn. Better fit for my personality/interests. Don’t think you can really go wrong but don’t make a decision based on the relative prestige of graduate econ departments. That will have very little bearing on your education.

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I don’t know about business/finance; UChicago does not have undergraduate business/finance programs.
As for medicine/sciences, take a look at objective metrics such as alumni STEM PhD production or the number of affiliated Nobel laureates.

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/50-schools-that-produce-the-most-science-and-engineering-phds-2/
(for STEM PhD production, according to the cited NSF list, UChicago ranked #7; UPenn did not make the T50)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation
(for affiliated Nobel laureates, according to this list, UChicago ranks 4th in the world; UPenn ranks 21st).

Admit rates rise and fall, possibly due to demographic trends or changing tastes. If you looked at average test scores or some measures of alumni accomplishments, you might find that even in years when UChicago’s admit rates were higher than they are now, they still managed to attract a self-selecting pool of strong students (even if, at the time, many of them were a little too pale and nerdy for some Ivy League adcoms’ tastes).

Personally, I think they are both academically strong enough that net costs and personal “fit” probably deserve to override academic quality comparisons (let alone hard-to-measure brand differences). No doubt, UChicago in particular isn’t for everyone.

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Wow, congrats. You have two wonderful choices. Most would be envious to be in your shoes. You can’t go wrong with either choice. Let me give you a few of my thoughts:

For finance, there is no better place that UPenn, particularly Wharton. The other UPenn colleges do well in finance recruiting as well (CAS, SEAS, etc). I know a few of my son’s friends who attend UPenn and love it. One thing you should consider is that recruiting at these schools are a highly orchestrated affair, and coordinated by the Career center. Some firms (particularly PE shops) will go as far as to extend their invites to info sessions for Wharton kids only. These are only a handful of the most competitive firms though. But you should keep this in mind. If your ultimate goal is to transfer then keep in mind that the process is competitive, but I’ve heard its possible. The location, collaborative attitude and resources at Penn are excellent.

UChicago has a more well known Economics brand. If you’re interested in a PhD, I’d say that UChicago is a better choice. Econ at UChicago is essentially high level math. Most of the students who are interested in an Econ PhD are encouraged to get a math degree instead. The different Econ tracks at Chicago offer some flexibilty, and as you mention the Data Science track is quite appealing. UChicago only has one college, so the recruiters cannot restrict who they interview. The administration is trying hard to shed the image of ‘where fun goes to die’, and they have made great efforts to make Chicago a more appealing place: more internships, more career counselling, reducing the core load, more focus on house culture, etc. So the UChicago of today is a lot different than it was 10-20 years ago.

In terms of finance placement, both schools publish their results, so its easy to compare what % of graduating seniors go into financial services or consulting:

Penn CAS (2017): 18% financial services, 18% consulting
Penn SEAS (2017): 14% finance, 11% consulting
Penn Wharton (2017): 50% finance, 20% consulting
UChicago College (2017): 33% financial services, 12% consulting

https://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/surveys.php#Undergrad
https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/files/documents/class-2017-outcomes.pdf

If you want to go into finance or consulting, then Wharton is clearly would be the best choice. But if you are not able to transfer to Wharton, then UChicago undergrad does a bit better in terms of placement. Keep in mind that this is like comparing oranges to apples, as these stats only list the % who entered the field, not the numerator and denominator. But this will give you a general idea. Both universities do well for finance/consulting, and again you can’t go wrong.

1 Like
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@tk21769 wrote

Note that a new Business Economics track was just recently started at UChicago. Students take classes at Booth School of Business and Econ classes at the undergraduate college. Read more about it here: https://socialsciences.uchicago.edu/announcement/business-economics-specialization-and-data-science-specialization-now-offered

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UChicago 2023!!! Just committed today.

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Now, that is such great news!

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Congrats @slashermaster1920! My D chose Chicago last year, and she now says she is so happy she did. Hopefully, a year from now you’ll feel the same way!